Stand Your Ground laws, or as some have called them 'Shoot First' laws, are the darling of the 2nd Amendment absolutists. Made famous by Florida and subsequently passed by 33 other states SYG laws are a pox on the land (but only a Smallpox).

The right to self defense is deeply ingrained in English Common law which is the basis of US law. The concept is that a person has the right to respond to threats of physical harm or death with sufficient force to neutralize that threat including deadly force. Embedded in that right is the Duty to Retreat or the responsibility to avoid violence when possible. Who wouldn't want to avoid confrontation and violence? Apparently people who carry guns.

In the decade since Florida passed SYG murders have increased 22% and lawful homicides increased from 3.4% of that total to 8.7% or a 75% increase. Other crime, both violent and nonviolent, has remained flat. So the only thing that changed was the number of people getting shot. Whoda' thought?

“Both justifiable and unlawful homicides increased substantially after the law’s effective date, unlawful homicides made up the majority of that increase,”

From this I surmise that a lot of people carrying guns thought they could get away with shooting someone but were mistaken. Still, somebody's dead. Then there is this little tidbit:

“The difference between murder and justifiable homicide hinges largely on the self-reported and difficult to refute subjective feeling of being threatened prior to killing someone,”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-homicides-standyourground/murders-surge-in-florida-in-decade-after-stand-your-ground-law-idUSKCN1AU1QL

In other words he who survives gets to tell the story any way he wants. George Zimmerman was one of those 'justifiable homicides' until public outrage resulted in charges of second degree murder for which he was acquitted.

So, what has the gun rights movement and the SYG laws it fosters gotten us?

MORE DEAD PEOPLE.

These laws must be repealed. They do not decrease crime and do not decrease unlawful homicide. Evidence suggests that the increase in 'lawful' homicide is vastly exaggerated. They do not make anyone safer, quite the contrary.

This epidemic has no vaccine. It's up to us, you and me, to bring this insanity under control. Join an anti gun violence organization of your choice. Give money, join, go to meetings, write letters to the editor and your representatives. Make your voice heard.

Part 1 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213614

Part 2 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213620

Part 3 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213623

Part 4 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213627

Gun nuts all say that gun laws are stupid. Ya' know what? They're right. Look at this 6 minute video and I'm sure you'll agree. It's distasteful and insulting but bear with me because it points out the fallacy of how we go about regulating firearms and how gun nuts always find a work around.



Nobody sets out to write stupid laws. Nobody wrote a law that said, 'put a piece of plastic on a military inspired rapid fire death machine'. Somebody attempted to write a law that would make the military inspired rapid fire death machine less so without actually taking the military inspired rapid fire death machine from 'law abiding citizens'. The fact that the gun industry will use the letter of the law to thwart the intent of the law is the flaw in writing legislation to accommodate gun owner's tender feelings.

Time to say, “Fuck you and your gun fetish!” and legislate the lethality of guns.

What made the guns used at Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Pulse and Las Vegas so deadly? The ability to fire bullets rapidly and reload instantly. A shooter's ability to kill and maim is limited only by the physical strength necessary to carry extra high capacity magazines. THAT is what must be legislated, not some esoteric description or line in the ATF handbook.

I propose, as a minimum, making the manufacture, import, sale or transfer of any semi automatic gun that uses removable magazines illegal. Period. Offer a one time 90 day buyback after which any illegal gun found will be confiscated and the owner punished with a fine and/or prison. Period.

Objections will begin with wild eyed screams of Second amendment!!11!! Sorry but no. The decision in Heller vs DC very clearly says that there is no right to own any gun for any reason by anyone and the State may regulate guns by type (it specifically mentioned the M16). The next objection will be Precedent to which the answer is Precedents are overturned all the time—Scalia ignored 200 years of Precedent in Heller. Besides, the SCOTUS has upheld state 'assault weapon' bans.

Some will say there are 300 million guns so a buy back is too expensive. Nope, not all fit the criteria and only about 1/3 of the rest will be sold back. The rest will be in one of two categories: hidden under the bed or in a closet where they will never hurt anyone or found when the 'militia' plays war games in the woods and confiscated. In any case we won't be seeing any pretend patriots in camouflage flaunting them at protests.

If all else fails the ATF can subpoena the NRA's data base and track them down. Yeah, the NRA has maintained a database of gun purchases with ownership data since the '70s. Gun dealers provided the information to them for marketing purposes.

This epidemic has no vaccine. It's up to us, you and me, to bring this insanity under control. Join an anti gun violence organization of your choice. Give money, join, go to meetings, write letters to the editor and your representatives. Make your voice heard.

Part 1 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213614

Part 2 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213620

Part 3 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213623

Before part 3 I have an addendum to part 2. It appears that the ATF has also noticed that the difference between a SBR and a 'pistol' with an arm brace is indiscernible. They posted a request for comment regarding these definitions and receiving only answers from gunners have decided to make no changes to the ATF handbook. So, having admitted that the two are the same one remains legal and the other not. Go figure.

Now to continue:

These are guns. I think we can all agree on that, right? Pretty obvious.



This is also a gun. It is a gun because the ATF handbook defines a gun as the 'receiver' or the part of a gun to which the barrel, trigger and other parts are attached. Because it is a gun it has a serial number and is traceable from the point of manufacture (or import) to the final sale through a FFL (Federal Firearms Licensee).



This is NOT a gun. It has no serial number and therefore cannot be traced. It can be bought over the internet by anyone of any age without a background check. ANYONE. Including felons, people with a mental health restriction and underage minors. Anyone can also all the other 'parts' and 'accessories' that are not classified as 'guns' and serial numbered.



Why is it NOT a gun? Because it cannot be fitted with some of the parts necessary to meet the ATF's handbook definition of a 'gun'. Compare it to the 'gun' above and you will notice that there are some holes drilled in the 'gun' that don't appear in the 'not a gun'. It is, in gun parlance, an 80% receiver; not completely finished. Anyone with an inexpensive drill press from Home Depot can drill those holes with enough precision to make it a 'gun' and it is legal for anyone to complete weapon assembled from this 80% receiver and other non regulated parts and accessories. The only restriction is that it can't be sold. Confused yet? Yeah, me too.

So anyone, including criminals, can buy and assemble a gun from 'parts and accessories'. These are known as Ghost Guns and they are entirely unregulated and becoming a major problem for law enforcement.

https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-br-hartford-north-end-shooting-arrest-20201130-qqoi7lnu45d7bloreeisbirsie-story.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/us/atf-raid-ghost-gun-manufacturer-invs/index.html

https://www.wwlp.com/news/crime/cocaine-heroin-seized-after-narcotics-investigation-on-cliftwood-street-in-springfield/

30% of crime guns in CA are Ghost Guns.
https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/sep/29/california-sues-us-regulator-bid-deter-ghost-guns/


This epidemic has no vaccine. It's up to us, you and me, to bring this insanity under control. Join an anti gun violence organization of your choice. Give money, join, go to meetings, write letters to the editor and your representatives. Make your voice heard.

Part 1 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213614

Part 2 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213620

This is legal, it can be bought in any gun store with a background check.



This is not legal, it's barrel is too short and it is regulated under the National Firearms Act as a 'short barrel rifle' (SBR).



This is legal. It is not a short barrel rifle, it is a pistol. It is available over the counter at any gun store with the standard background check. It is equipped with an arm brace which is a legal accessory.



Can you see the differences between a SBR and a pistol with an arm brace? Yeah, me neither.

What's the big deal with an SBR? A rifle is more accurate, more easily controlled and more lethal than a pistol for a variety of reasons. A SBR is easily concealed compared to a full length rifle.

These 'pistols' are useless for 'self defense' or sport shooting. They are strictly designed to be easily concealed so as to penetrate a target and create maximum casualties in minimum time.

It's past time to stop pussy footing around and act on the FUNCTIONALITY that makes weapons deadly, not some picayune definition. Make all semi auto weapons that are easily and quickly reloaded illegal on the civilian market.

This epidemic has no vaccine. It's up to us, you and me, to bring this insanity under control. Join an anti gun violence organization of your choice. Give money, join, go to meetings, write letters to the editor and your representatives. Make your voice heard.

Part 1 here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/126213614

I actually believe that the ATF is working for the gun industry. They are charged with defining the things that make guns (and explosives) easily available to the public at large. This is done with entries into the ATF Handbook, not by legislation. The Handbook defines Machine Gun thus:



Until recently, using this definition, this is a machine gun:



And this is not:



Notice the difference? Yeah, me neither. The 'difference' is that the Bump Stock uses springs and mechanics to allow the trigger to re-set meaning that the gun fires one bullet for one trigger pull. The Bump Stock allows the shooter to pull the trigger up too 600 times a minute. But it's not a machine gun, right?

Under pressure from the Trump administration (even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then) the ATF re-wrote the definition to classify a Bump Stock as a gun bringing it under the jurisdiction of the ATF. Note that they did not change the definition of Machinegun, only reclassified the Bump Stock as a gun.

It is these arcane bits of minutia that allows the gun industry to thwart the intent of any legislation to restrict firearms. How long do you think it will take for the gun nuts to find a work around to achieve the same function that skirts the ATF handbook and thus legislation?

The entire structure of gun governance needs to be seriously considered and overhauled. The actual functionality of guns needs to be the basis of legislation, not some arcane entry into the ATF handbook made by clerical staff without oversight.

This epidemic has no vaccine. It is up to you and me to make these changes. Support an anti gun violence organization of your choice. Give money, join, attend meetings and add to their voice. Lives depend on it.

Part 2 and 3 coming soon.

I hold a C&R FFL, own more guns than I have fingers, know local and national laws and probably more about firearm development and its effect on warfare than most.

All that I've been met with derision, name calling and insults.

That is how gun nutters respond to everyone who isn't another rabid gun but.

I can put up with a lot of shit from people who are passionate but not from people who are intentionally ignorant and too stubborn to see an opposing viewpoint regardless of validity and facts.

Welcome to my ignore list.

December 14, 2012. It was a Friday. My daughter dropped off my Grand Daughter (3) after getting her two sons (6 and 10) to school on her way to work as she does every week day. It’s just after 8:20. Just another day to spend holding my Baby Girl on my lap and watching the talking heads on MSNBC and CNN. Baby Girl will be the best informed kid in Kindergarten by osmosis.

About 9:30 the networks shift to a school in Connecticut. Police and SWAT are on the scene at a school and there are reports of shots fired inside. It’s an elementary school. My first thought was that some asshole who got fired was taking vengeance on management. Baby Girl asks for orange juice. Sippy cup in hand we settle back into my oversized easy chair and switch to CNN. They're covering the same story.

By 10:00 there are reports of some children being among the casualties. Gee, I think, is this bastard so clumsy or inept that he misses the janitor and hurts a little kid? Baby Girl needs her fuzzy blanket. Back in the chair we switch over to MSNBC. Chris Jansing was on the scene. That’s quick, I think, getting from NY to CT on such short notice, must be more going on than just a disgruntled ex-employee.

By about noon the details start filling in. The Principal is dead of gunshot wounds and there are multiple children shot. A reporter says that 15 to 18 students, first or second graders, are casualties along with several teachers and administrators. It’s clear that this isn’t just a pissed off ex-employee.

Kids and teachers stream out of the building, kids all holding hands in an unbroken chain. Parents are now on the scene and the look of fear and anguish on their faces makes the whole thing somehow personal. By now tears are streaming down my cheeks. Baby Girl asks in a worried voice, “What’s wrong Grandad?” Don’t worry Baby, it’s just something on TV.

By mid afternoon the coroner is on scene and the body count firms up. Twenty kids, all first graders, are dead along with six teachers. How this man can maintain his composure while delivering news like this is beyond me. Then he says, “there’ll be time for that later . . . “ Police and coroner go through the details of matching children, living and dead, to parents. Images of unimaginable grief are on the TV but by now it’s all so surreal I’m having an out of body experience seeing myself holding a three year old watching TV and sobbing.

At 3:35 and the two boys have walked home from school a few blocks away. One look at me and they both go into panic mode. What’s wrong? Is everybody all right? Mommy, Daddy, Nana? It’s okay, just some really bad things on TV. Come here and sit with me for a minute.

Mom arrives to retrieve her children. She’s wearing dark glasses and her face is a bit puffy. She says, “I have this information but don’t know how to process it or what to do with it.” Not much more passes between us. She studiously avoids being overly emotional with the kids because she sees that they’re pretty freaked out by me. How the hell did she get so strong and smart about dealing with her children?

My wife gets home a few hours later. Dinner is cold cuts and cheese, I’m not up to eating anything myself. Later, in bed, the images of these children’s last few minutes of life, the fear screaming and calling for mommy and daddy come to me and I break down into an uncontrolled sobbing mess. That still happens now and then but usually it’s just a quiet cry.

Those who think this will go away, that Gabby Giffords or the parents of Sandy Hook or Richard Martinez or me will go away are living in a fantasy world. Until Sandy Hook I didn’t know that 30,000 people die by gun violence every year. I didn’t know that more toddlers under five are killed with guns every year than police officers on active duty. I didn’t know that more women have died by guns in the hands if intimate partners than soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq over the same time period.

But I know it now. And I’m not going away.

should have the lee way to enforce law as they see fit? That's a good idea?

So you legally carry but the LEO doesn't like cc and he does what he thinks is right? That cuts both ways, be careful what you wish for . . .