A possible proposal

In an earlier thread,I posted propsing a discussion group,albeit temporary of "voter suppression" a place where people in various states could post articles,and have discussions related to suprresion efforts in their state. If I may, let me add something to that.."election theft"..this is wehre we migth discuss actions taken if there is election faruid by the GOP, in other words, if they try to steal an election, again.

Penny for yer thoughts?

OK, if it becomes a 2000 style fight

Will Obama fight,or pull a Gore?

My take: he unleashes all the dogs,including Clinton.

what happens if neither Obama nor Romney get 270?

I know that there are tons of electoral maps. It has become a game, slap a state red or blue and see what sort of otoal you get, or more likely, to figure out what Obama needs to get to 270.

What makes me ask a question is a fact: there are many states that are toss ups. Yes,polls in states like Florida, Ohio, North Carolina favor Obama, but polls cannot take into account the damper voter ID laws have put on the nation. The fact is, whatever reason people had for their "protest vote" in 2010, the people that got hit were the poor, elderly, students and immigrants. The GOp has no shame about the fact they tried to do this at the last minute, and the media so wants that Pac Money that they dare not call them out on it.

So, what happens if, after all the votes are counted, there is NOT a clear answer. All it would take is one scandal in one of the swing states to muddle the waters with gray. What happens if neither of these two score a clear knockout.

I know the short answer is scotus, but dare scotus get involved, knowing that Bush V Gore is still Raw? Does the House award it toMitt, knowing that Mitt will have probably lost the popular vote. I do think Obama willput up a better fight than Gore, but I also know Gore did not have billion dollar donors to fight.

What happens?

Not sure how to ask this, but

Is there a need here for a "election supression" forum?
Here is what I mean, we allknow that the GOP is using voter id Laws and any number of dirty tricks to suppress demcoratic votes this election. Is there a possible forum for people in affected areas todiscuss ways of getting out the vote,and to esnure that our right to vote does not get taken.?

If I did a faux pas, I apolgize, but I think you will see why i asked the question.

A Doctor Who quote that fits the GOP so well

"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common, they don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit the views, which can be uncomfortable, if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering."

A little local example of what we face in the election (Tampa)

My local Obama for president office is based in a series of trailers. They have done really well with them, decorating them well, and making them comfortable, but they are still trailers. These trailers are outside a new shopping center. When I was given directions, they made a point of saying that I did not want to go into the shopping center proper. I kind of wondered, but I thought, ok, with all the construction going on there, that makes sense.

Well, I found it, but I walked into the shopping center afterword, since it has my local Starbucks. Well oddly enough, the executive offices of the company nearest them had enough "Romney for president" signs that it could pass for the local Romney headquarters. Every window had big blue signs, coming out of their nice comfy offices. It does not help that this center has a full charter school opneing up, and has the congressional offices for the local Republican, Moody Bible insitute educated, rep for congress.

My local "liberal" paper,the St.Pete Times, put it this way

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/new-organizing-for-america-office-for-obama-re-election-opens-in-riverview/1227226

"RIVERVIEW — At first glance, it appears President Barack Obama's re-election campaign will enter enemy territory when Organizing for America opens a campaign office at the Winthrop Town Centre this week."

But then, I take heart, because the fact that we fight even when NOT in the comfy offices means we have the spirit, and more imprtantly, that we have LOST the fear.

6 Things That Should Keep Obama Nervous & Keep Romney Hopeful

To those that would censor Free Speech

I understand that nobody likes the way the First Amendment has become a haven for parasites, weasels and other vermin. Religious bigots in particular use it as a means fo trying to defend their power. Yes, I have read some of Canada's law that seems to be able to shut down the Terry Jones types.

However, I offer this to show why I do NOT support limiting free speech.

Go down the line of every important figure that fought for rights, whether it is Martin Luther King, or Margaret Sanger, Eugene Debs or Thomas Paine. You will find one thread in common; every one of them had opponents that accused them of dangerous, hateful speech. It would be easy to write this off as some subterfuge by powerful White Men, but the truth is something a bit nastier. Many people did indeed feel threatened, intimidated, and degraded by the words that reformers say.

The folks in Dixie did not just feel offended by MLK, they felt he was threatening their culture and indeed, their lives. As we all know, those ideas are still very much alive, not just when the GOP calls Obama a monkey.

Many men, and yes, many women, felt Susan B Anthony and Margaret Sanger were a threat to womanhood itself. If you think that is dead, watch the conservative lady pundits, that, with a straight face, and in a blazer, talk as if women's very right to vote is a bad thing (yes Ann Coulter, that was aimed at you.)

And Islam is no different than any religion, it means it has great people who really do make an effort to feed hungry people, improve their lot, and at least live decent lives, it also has people that would kill, just as it's older sisters Christianity and Judaism do. Religion always plays by the same rules, which is why later faiths like Mormonism or Scientology tend to fit into the same patterns. However, societies must make sure it plays by rules. At first, that would lend credence to the idea of limting religious speech. However, that plays right into a major strategy of religion, the martyr game: the more your repress a faith, the more it tends to grow, and the less it fears the goverment.

And here we get into why limiting free speech is exactly what we do not want to do: if you limit free speech because religious folk get violent, they will get more violent. You are reinforcing the behavior, as surely as feeding a monkey in a skinner box does. If people see that we react a certain way because people get violent, then others will want to imitate the success of the rioters. Already, in Europe, people cheered Anders Brevik, because they felt he was only doing the same sort of violence that they think Muslims do. Of course he was wrong, but the fact remains that we cannot let people think we will yield to violence, because, sure enough, once the match hits the dry kindling, the blaze will keep burning until every bit of fuel is reduced to ash.

Mitt's middle income gaffe, an accidental truth

I was inspired by this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021343083

Now, to sum it up, Mitt defined Middle Americans as those making 200K a year. Now, let's be honest, few DUers, myself included, would come close. Some of us live in places where 100k per annum is considered uppermiddle class, enough to pay the rent, pay the bills, send the kids to private school, and have enough to comfortably eat out.

Yes, I realize some New Yorkers will say that is not much, but most of that is the way overpriced real estate market that literally turned parts of Harlem into yuppie condos.

Also, needles to say, all civil servants, including all teachers, most cops, most firemen, and even many nurses, would fall WAY short of this mark. Here in Tampa, the chief of police does not make that much. And this is the lady who made her cops give OWS gatorade instead of beating them, unlike Oakland.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6547364_police-chief-salary-florida.html

Hell, most engineers do not make that much.

So what does this mean?

That Mitt does not care about or fear anyone making less than 200 grand a year? Well, that is obvious. But in America, we have a fluid sense of class, we believe that anyone can make it, and, while most people know Horatio Alger is a myth, there used to be a chance where people could, with traning, get to the comfortable middle class level.

USED to BE.

What Mitt has inadervently done is destroy the myth of the Middle Class that was one of the major barriers against rebellion. The truth is, in the world that Mitt creates, without the social security, or the civil servants, you are NOT middle class unless you have a stock of cash. Oner medical bill or legal bill can send your house of cards down, and most of Mitt's donors are people who have a vested interest in being able to take your money: collectors, banks, medical corporations, insurance, private schools, churches, and outright crooks and theives that make their money the old-fashioned way, they STEAL it.

Guess what, the vast majority of people who think they are middle class, are NOT.

Don't be the Rabbit to the GOP Turtle

OK, I see DU having a well-deserved sense of glee over the misfortunes of one Willard Mitt Romney. We know the rank and file GOP hates him, we know Women are creeped out by him, and that as far as foriegn policy is concerned, the man utters gaffes that have people from Moscow toLondon wondering if this man is some sort of joke.

If the world were logical, Mitt would have been laughed out of the contest. As someone who was in Florida back in 2000, I can tell you,the world is not logcal.

It does not matter if every GOP was to hate him, they hate Obama more
It does not matter if people hate him, the Billionaires know they can buy opinions, cheapThe GOP, especially the governors, know that they are thr servants of the billioniares, which is why they are trying to CONTROL the vote.

We need to GOTV and DROWN the GOP beyond number, because, like a fire that has one spark, it can blaze up, especially with the media ready to pour gasoline on that spark, because it equals ratings.