bravenak
bravenak's JournalI know what color they are because they said what color they were.
They were mad at the young women for calling out Seattle for white supremacy. If they were not white, why the anger? Next, I was voting for Bernie, until a self described fan sent me hate mail to my home. That shows the culture within his movement. I felt unsafe with his group after that, had to go to my storage and arm myself. I have never felt like going to pull my rifle out of storage before. But I have children and stalking me to my home is very out of the ordinary. Next, the amount of white posters who felt it was their duty to bring down BLM, they were all from Bernie's side. Plus, white folks calling me racist while they are the beneficiaries of white supremacy? If they believe that they'll believe anything. If I called just one of them a racist in such nasty descriptive and bald terms, they would still be posting ops about it. I said 'white ass crowds', and they went balistic, but they can call me race baiter, racist, race nagger, Stockholm syndrome victim, etc, and see nothing wrong with the double standard. So, why? Why not? I know I won't get hate mail from Hillary supporters, I know they don't call me names or describe they entirety of the AA population as stockholm syndrome victims. I know that.
I know that telling Bernie fans what they are doing wrong merits harassment. I know what they did to John Lewis' facebook page, schooling him on civil rights. I know many have white privilege and use it and use it and then some use it against me by force of numbers ganging up.
Nobody cares enough about the fact that hundreds to thousands of blacks have complained by blogging, tweeting, tweeting Sanders, telling his fans to please leave them alone about Dr King, black folks know our history better than them. There is such disfunction and a complete unwillingness to address it other than to say, 'it's just the internet!!' But it isn't. It happens in person too. By mail. Via email. Nobody will do anything about it, so please tell me why the heck black folks should join a revolution that treats us like THAT?
I know what you mean about Paula.
I prefer my southern racist to my northern or western racist. It's in your face with southerns, you know where you stand. That insidious stuff is worse. You know what it is, they know what it is, but it is couched in mealy mouthed language and pretenses of humor.
I just like to know that a leader tries to be inclusive and have diversity without having to be forced into it or forced to even notice you exist and have needs. I know a Hillary admin will have women, blacks, hispanics, asians, arabs, pacific islanders, native americans, etc, all people who deserve a chance to prove their abilities and achieve positions of prominence to provide good role model for children AND adults in their own cultural communities.
He cannot organize his people. The atmosphere is bad.
He refuses to discuss it. It shows how he handles the concerns of blacks. I literally think somebody would have to interrupt him several time and shut down events to even get him to say boo about it. What policy can he get through congress? NONE
So how is he going to get any policy through? REVOLUTION
That's the plan. MILLIONS IN THE STREETS
yeah right
It can never hurt you as much as it hurts them. Realize that.
You cannot compete with black women in the oppression olympics without looking terrible if you are basing it off of the adversity of someone not you. Not only do we have black children, we have black husbands and mothers and fathers and cousins and uncles and our OWN PERSONAL experience to use as fount of knowlegde. Lacking that, one lacks the experience in dealing with the day to day minutia of being marginalized in every facet of ones life.
None of 'you white folks' know internally what it is like to live in black skin with the history of our nation diplayed in ways that are horrifying that white folks just cannot notice and do not internalize or process in the same way.
Barring actual experience, the correct thing to do is to defer to those with experience in dealing with ths horrible affliction on what it is really like. Attempting to instruct the recipients of racism on how much you know, or trying to prove you know as much as they is a shallow and completely false reading of the situation, our society and our culture. You cannot know what you do not know and you will not learn if you think you already know.
If you understand, I'd suggest dropping the abrasiveness and demanding that strong black women leave 'your' thread and insulting them with terms like 'race baiter'. I tend to place those who find themselves completely comfortable with addressing black women as race baiters for discussing the pressing and deadly issue of racism as far far far to the right of me on the racial and social justice scale. I understand that I am much farther to the Left of you on this issue, but the terms you used in referring to me at one time were only used by rightwingers but have somehow since summer found itself comfortably nestled in the american progressive lexicon. This is a sad thing. I think you'd be horrified if when discussing palestinian liberation I said to you 'get out of here, you are the worst race baiter ever'. Strange to see white progressives call blak women race baiters for discussing issues of black lives mattering. Very sad.
Marking this thread for this post.
I think this info needs to be repeated. Constantly.
We need laws that say you go to jail for profiling.
We need laws that say you MUST record every stop. Or go to jail.
We need laws that say you cannot profit from imprisoning people. Or you go to jail.
We need laws that say of a department's stats indicate profiling, the guilty ones go to jail.
We need laws that say you cannot have all white jurys for black people anymore, or all white prosecutors and judges, they have proven they cannot be fair.
We need laws saying that if it is shown that black children are treated unfairly at school, everybody gets fired..
We need fair housing. More laws and better enforcement.
We need to funnel the money spent to lock people up into rehab and revitalizing our communities.
We need new low income housing built.
We need to end the drug war.
If we can't get stuff like that, what's the point.
Yes. Most black people are very happy with Obama.
We have complaints, but none that we will usually share outside of our group. The idea that Hillary respects our feelings towards him and plans to continue his policies, and perhaps improve upon them makes us comfortable.
Black people have been living in a century long great depression. We have NEVER not had those fears that are new and horrible for white people. That is why they think we don't understand their econimic fears. They do not understand us. We were slaves. Now we are the poor and have always been on the bottom. No matter if we are not poor, people still think black=poor. We know that they never seemed to care so urgently about our poverty when it was just us that were suffering. We look at you all in shock. You think you have it bad, we say with our eyes. We are not even allowed to live free, even if we have money. We know that once the financial problems are solved for white people, racism will be backburnered like it always is. White flight happened years ago, the disinvestment in our communities and problems already happened, and white liberals left us lying in shit and jailed and abused and now they tell us that they care. Well, where the hell wre all these people who care so much bout our unemployment all these forty years? Ignoring us until they needed our votes. Doing charity work here and there and patting themselves on the backs for being such selfless white liberals while at the same time judging us, ignoring us, telling us we're stupid, and letting raxism and institutional violence run rampant, blaming the black community and reading Marx and telling themselves that socialism will solve it. Pretending they aren't racist because they don't say 'nigger' while they aviod black people like the plague. Not hiring us, opposing affimative action, then telling us they are colorblind when we know that colorblind=racist as hell.
This is the problem, the disconnect. White people think that white people's problems are EVERYONES problems, and that they are the standard. Our problems are side issues. But they woukd be DAMNED if they let white people be treated like this as the sop while black folks. lived goid lives without 1/3 going to jail or prison. White people would have burned the fucking nation to the ground before they themselves lived in poverty and under institutional racism or black supremacy.
So, we do not trust you. Look at how things have gotten for us while you were able to ignore it since your family is not the ones worried about whether your kids will meet a racist cop and end up dead. We are not willing to just vote for your guy when you do not even understand the magnitude of the problem. Our problems are much more life or death and immediate. We say that and white liberaks say, 'what about climate change though? Don't you care?' No. Not when I won't survive a police stop for a moving violation, no, I don't care about your money if my life is in danger.
Yes.
Thank you for really thinking it over. I think this had been a much more positive experience than I had expected.
I know I have been bringing this stuff up a lot over the last few weeks, but it is something that really bothers and frustrates me. I keep trying to figure out how to explain what I see, but it's like writing a poem, you know? Sometimes it takes a while to pull the snippets of emotions and feelings together in a rational wah in order get the response you want. The effect you desire.
At first I was so mad after netroots. I could not figure out why people were acting so vicious and, well, racist. I realized that many did NOT know what they looked like. How could they? There were no black people here to tell them besides me, and I knew it would cause me to be hated. But I just had to.
I had hoped they would listen and end it immediately. I felt bad that nobody believed me and that people thought I was just trolling or 'race nagging'. People said such mean things. But we can move forward if we have humility and compassion for others.
I think speaking with black folks outside of DU would be brilliant. Even just reading black publications (not the Black Agenda Report, please no, just trust me) and going through the comments and reading them would help.
The experience thing is a big 
. I have no idea what to say to people who question his experience. Maybe remind them that he will have skilled advisors?
And yes, the gains missed us. They always do. That is why we don't trust in the economic justice message. We know we will NEVER get our fair share. How can we will so many of us in prison or dead?
Here, let me try to help you with your concerns.
It is not the same for you. Most leaders in this nation hve been white. We ONLY have Obama. There is really nothing you can do but bite your tongue hard as hell if yiu want to win. Black people have been doing that with White democratic leaders FOREVER. For once, y'all gotta hush.
You have to let go of your anger about things you thought Obama was going to do but didn't actually do. Look at the shit black folks have been through. We look at you guys crazy wondering how the hell are you madder than we are. We think you guys turned on him very quickly in a way you'd never do to a white liberal, fair or not, that is the perception. The level of anger towards him just feeds the narrative that white progressives are NOT our allies really, and just use us as pawns and turn on us when we step off the plantation. In order to stop feeding into it, you guys have to stfu for once. Otherwise black folks will just remain with the default candidate. Fair or foul, it is a big ass turn off and is KILLING you with black voters. Read what MalcolmX said about white liberals being worse than republicans. We know we are being used. We have aoways known and we are tired of sinking further and falling farther behind while white liberals worry about THEIR paychecks; we worry about our children making it home alive. Sorry, but our issues are much more important to us than the oligarchy. Hell, we see YOU as a part of the system that oppresses us.
Of course black folks run the spectrum politically. But we stick together.
I actually appreciate the way you avoid being nasty towards Hillary. I try not to myself and I dislike her.
I usually find your posts reasonable and even if I do not agree, I can understand your policy differences with her and enjoy your positive support for Bernie. Nobody is perfect, but I do not see you as a negative supporter.
Now, I am Ideologically similar to Bernie as far as my politics go, although I find myself putting a bit more emphasis on the social justice aspect, rather than the economical. I see you as an ally in the fight for Black lives matters and appreciate that and hope that everyone can join us in our fight. You are on my side in my fight for justice, and I am on your side in your fight for economic fairness.
I do not hate Bernie or his supporters. I actually prefer Bernie and do not like Hillary. If I say things about what I think is hurting him with black voters, it is not because I want to trash him or you guys, I want you to know what I see and really am trying to help.
I want Bernie's supporters to include things that are important to black voters and place them at the top of the list of urgent business. I truly believe that the group that wins the support of black activists in movements like Black Lives Matters will win the black vote. And similarly with Latinos, the person and supporters that show the most concern, listen to hispanics in our nation and empathizes and places their concerns at the top along with economic and social justice will win their respect and votes. Minority communities are big on respect and appreciate attention paid to the issues that affect our communities specifically. We also want our vote earned and for the candidates to come to us and ask for our votes.
Bernie and his group have to spread goodwill throughout the Obama coalition. They need to steal Hillary voters. I fear that the active dislike for the man that many African Americans respect and love (honestly, we place him at the top of the list of All Time Greatest African Americans, above Martin Luther King Jr and MalcolmX, he to us is the all time greatest African American) is harming Bernie tremendously. We have an emotional connection to him, no amount of logic and policy discussions will change that. We do not like people who do not appreciate him and his accomplishments.
I say these things not to harn; but to assist. When I speak with other African Americans about the policy issues and differences between the candidates, they seem to actually PREFER Bernie's positions. But there is a lack of trust, and we find it difficult to get interested in a new (to us) candidate. We know the Clintons. We know they made terrible decisions. But when supporters beat us up with those facts, it shuts down the conversation and everyone retreats to their previously held positions. The Clintons are our default choice. The Clintons are praising Obama and that brings them enough goodwill to assuage the fears of another Welfare Reform debacle or Mass Incarceration mess. The Clintons are busy speaking on our issues and apologizing for past mistakes. I know that does not make up for the past, but when has America EVER made up for things done to black people? Never. An apology for hurting us is so damn rare that we forgive.
Now, I think we can get through this netroots debacle, but Bernie's supporters HAVE to listen to the members of the African American community and bite their tongues and figure out how to use the information we provide effectively. Life is a learning experience.
I have a few suggestions: in order to steal votes Bernie needs Obma voters. Please let people know that it is very counterproductive to trash Obama in any way really. We are so used to black leaders being trashed and hated and despised that we as a group will tune out any bad mouthing and silently hate the person speaking. It really doesn't matter if it is just about SEVERE disappointment with his policies or seeing him as too far to the right; it turns off potential black voters. Speak instead on how Bernie will defend the gains Obama made and expand upon them. It will be more effective.
Another thing is you all need to know that Black people LIKE the Clintons. Yes, they fucked up. But it seems that we are forgiving them and waiting to hear more about how Hillary will undo some of the policies and ensure that we work on the insititutional racism. Many are willing to give them a chance to fix things. It does not help Bernie AT ALL when folks talk crazy to black folks about liking the Clintons after all the damage they have done. It might help you to see this as a sign that black people can be willing to give multiple chances. This bad time with minority voters can be fixed.
I'd also suggest that his supporters might want to stop saying that economic justice and social justice are the same thing or that one brings the other. And maybe stop calling non Bernie supporters uninformed or implying that they are stupid or Hillary supporters. I get accused of supporting Hillary because I am saying these things to and about Bernie supporters. I understand that I have been a bit unkind by broadbrushing his supporters and I am sorry. I apologize for that and will try to do better. I just do not like my concern dismissed or my community or activists being disrespected or called right wing plants.
There is nothing wrong with being excited for a candidate. Or being an idealist. But it is not a winning strategy on it's own. Votes are needed to win. Bernie has the leftish progressive white liberals on his side and he has their support. He NEEDS more. Compromises will have to be made and tongues will have to be bitten to win the hearts and minds of the rest of the Democratic coalition.
Sorry about the super long post, but I just wanted to get that out there and see if anybody would take what I say seriously and help end this meme with the quickness. I do not like Bernie's supporters having the reputation of being mean, or intelligence snobs or hating black people. The only way to turn the tide is to change course. If you guys could collectively just be nice to black people and listen to us and support us in this fight for our lives and freedom; fight just as hard as you fight FOR Bernie, this problem would be a thing of the past.
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Gender: Do not displayMember since: Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:49 PM
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