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Member since: Sun Feb 14, 2016, 06:36 PM
Number of posts: 5,759

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Well at least now I know who to credit for the numerous posts

The reason I've posted the WaPo, USA Today and Bloomberg articles, was because earlier this morning, right after I posted this one


it was alerted on and removed, for being "kooky."

I thought it was because of the obscure source, so when I saw those three other sources saying much the same thing, I posted those, to make the point that this isn't some nutty conspiracy theory, as so many seem to think. It is a serious issue and deserves serious discussion.

After posting those, I received noticed from the admins that, upon review, they had reinstated the original post that had been hidden.

Had that post not been hidden, I would most certainly *not* have started 3 more threads from mainstream sources.

So, take a bow.

We'll see how much integrity you have

You are sure I won't read it? How sure?

You could look here, and see that I was discussing this paper. A year ago.


Will you admit you made a hasty assumption about me? I doubt it.

Fair enough

I can respect your opinion, because it is, clearly, informed, and that is really all that I am advocating: being informed.

I have gone back and forth on this issue, beginning last March. I thought I was reasonably convinced that there was *no* lab involvement, but new pieces of info keep trickling out, making me revisit and evaluate all the known data, again. That's the process I'm currently in, and I am alarmed by the vitriol, and all of the uninformed opinions on the matter.

BTW, I had planned to listen to that TWiV podcast last night, but fell asleep instead. I had seen Alina Chan's Twitter posts about it, though. So far I have not found any reasons to be suspicious of her or her motives.

As I've said, I'm not convinced of *any* origin theory, and that is precisely my point: there's just not enough actual hard evidence, either way. And it's not because the right questions aren't being asked; it's because the answers are being withheld (by the Chinese government), which is antithetical to an honest scientific inquiry.

I meant, because Trump supports the lab leak theory

because he's a vile racist ignorant asshole, wouldn't know how to evaluate data and facts to save his life.

But, that doesn't automatically invalidate the theory! He doesn't get to decide reality.

And there are plenty of thinkers, researchers, scientists, with *no* political agenda, who have not been convinced to rule that theory out.

And you don't need a hypothetical undocumented spillover event

when the world's largest repository of bat coronavirus samples exists inside the laboratory in Wuhan!

I don't know with any certainty what the truth is, yet; but the point is that nobody else does, either.

There is just a helluva lot, and increasing, circumstantial evidence that must not be overlooked and dismissed. Why is this even controversial?? (I know the answer: because fucking Trump,)

Not saying it is man-made

Does anyone even bother reading the linked articles before posting anymore?


“I want to clarify that all hypotheses remain open and require further study,” said World Health Organization Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in February 2021.

USA Today Opinion: Why the COVID lab-leak theory in Wuhan shouldn't be dismissed

[I just do not understand the reluctance of so many (here at DU! Where smart, thoughtful people congregate!) to examine this issue carefully, and instead denigrate those who do, and dismiss it all as RW conspiracy theory!]

This article is a good, deep dive by this journalist who has researched and reported on many cases of lab safety issues.


I have reported on safety lapses at elite U.S. labs. There is no reason to believe they aren’t happening at labs in other countries as well.

Alison Young, Opinion contributor

Published 1:00 AM PDT Mar. 22, 2021 Updated 10:36 AM PDT Mar. 22, 2021

As members of a World Health Organization expert team have made international headlines recently dismissing as “extremely unlikely” the possibility that a laboratory accident in Wuhan, China, could have sparked the COVID-19 pandemic, I can’t stop thinking of the hundreds of lab accidents that are secretly occurring just in the United States. .... As an investigative reporter, I have spent more than a decade revealing shocking safety breaches that officials at laboratories in our own country don’t want the public to know about. ....I have uncovered exotic and deadly bacteria that have hitched rides out of high-security labs on workers’ dirty clothing, silently spreading contagion for weeks. I have revealed how spacesuit-like protective gear and tubes carrying safe oxygen to scientists have torn or broken – repeatedly – and high-tech safety systems have failed dramatically. Vials of viruses and bacteria have gone missing. Researchers bitten by infected lab animals have been allowed to move about in public – rather than being quarantined – while waiting for signs of infection to appear.


The notion that more than 2.7 million deaths worldwide – so far – could be the result of a lab accident has been met with skepticism and derision by many journalists and scientists who often portray it as a crackpot conspiracy theory fueled by former President Donald Trump’s China-bashing rhetoric. Without question, the lab-leak theory has been politically and racially weaponized in ugly ways. Nonetheless, that rhetoric needs to be separated from legitimate questions about lab safety that are deserving of investigation.

Science, like journalism, is supposed to be about facts and about getting to the truth. But those who dare seek answers to reasonable questions about any lab accidents in Wuhan are accused of peddling conspiracies.

Let me be clear: Labs in Wuhan might not have played any role in the origin of the pandemic. But a year later, no source has been found, and the world deserves a thorough, unbiased investigation of all plausible theories that is conducted without fear or favor.

Much more at link above.

WaPo Opinion: Did covid-19 escape from a Wuhan lab? The WHO report can't be the final word.


Hopefully WaPo isn't yet considered a right-wing conspiracy rag.

Opinion by David Feith
March 22, 2021 at 7:23 a.m. PDT

David Feith, an adjunct senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, is a former deputy assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs.

The World Health Organization’s final report on its investigation into covid-19’s origin is due any day now. But a major revelation has already emerged: This month, two members of the WHO investigative team acknowledged that lab workers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China were sick — from what, it is not yet clear — in fall 2019, before the public coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan.
That information confirms an assertion in a Jan. 15 statement by the State Department (where I worked at the time), and it represents the sort of fact pattern that investigators would expect if covid originated with an accidental lab leak, one of several possible but unproven theories.

So will the final WHO report focus on the Wuhan Institute of Virology? Don’t count on it. Because the same WHO investigators who — responding to media inquiries — confirmed the existence of the sick lab workers immediately played down the importance of the information.


Perhaps the WHO final report will supply evidence to justify the investigators’ apparent lack of interest in pursuing the lab-leak theory. Does the WHO have the names of the lab researchers who fell ill? Were they interviewed? Has the WHO seen their medical records? Antibody test results? If so, will the information be included in the WHO report?

How could such an important investigation risk its credibility by including possibly conflicted investigators? Well, the WHO investigation isn’t just a WHO investigation. It is a joint effort between the WHO, which convened some 19 international investigators, and the Chinese government, which selected 17 Chinese researchers and also had veto power over the foreign experts. The investigators won’t be able to publish findings without official Chinese concurrence.

More at link above, perhaps behind paywall.

Virus Researchers Still Can't Rule Out Lab Accident


Getting more data on Covid-19’s origins — whether in bats or a Wuhan lab — is the best way to prevent the next disaster.

By Faye Flam, January 12, 2021, 7:45 AM PST

People want to know where the coronavirus came from. If humans first caught it from bats, then where and how? Did Covid-19 escape from a lab, as several magazine articles have insinuated? While most scientists dismiss a deliberate release of the virus as a conspiracy theory, they can’t completely dismiss the possibility that it escaped by accident.

International investigations could shed light on the matter, but they’ve gotten off to a bumpy start. A WHO investigative team was held up for months before finally getting admitted to China this week. Another team associated with the Lancet has yet to start field work there. Getting to the bottom of things is not only critical for preventing future pandemics, it’s important for keeping the public in the loop, to keep people motivated to help mitigate the spread.

“I think we all feel that more work should be done in China on trying to find the origins,” says UC Berkeley geneticist Rasmus Neilsen, who has been trying to piece together how SARS-CoV-2 evolved. “I think we all feel that would benefit science.”

One problem, he says, is the spread of conspiracy theories that Covid-19 was created in a lab and then intentionally released. “I think that has really harmed the case for a proper investigation.” While investigating a lab-accident origin is important, he says, it’s gotten lumped in with tinfoil hat ideas.

Much more at link above.
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