General Discussion

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,939 posts)

124. No. "cause" is wrong. Assigning a cause assigns blame implicitly unless qualified. It wasn't.

Sun May 26, 2019, 11:43 AM

May 2019

To say that men "cause" 100% of unwanted pregnancies is dismissive of the woman's role.

It assumes she has no agency. It assumes she is incompetent to give or withhold consent in 100% of the cases. It assumes that women have never lied or been incompetent or that there have been material failures.

It assumes that women never change her minds about wanting a pregnancy. Which is their right.

By taking away women's agencies it denies them their rights.

Women are always assumed under modern law to be competent agents unless proven otherwise by evidence. Changing their mind is not evidence of incompetency.

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Regarding "stop focusing on women if we're trying to get rid of abortions": it is an excellent point. However the thread title you chose and the "100%" binary thinking sabotages that point, badly.

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Men Cause 100% of Unwanted Pregnancies [View all] lapucelle May 2019 OP

I've always said this: No ejaculation no pregnancy. Laffy Kat May 2019 #1

One of the guys at work actually said lapucelle May 2019 #2

And... 2naSalit May 2019 #5

Her body...her choice. N/T lapucelle May 2019 #20

Exactly...nt 2naSalit May 2019 #147

I would have a difficult time not smacking that co-worker. Laffy Kat May 2019 #9

You are too kind. smirkymonkey May 2019 #47

It is her body but.... Farmer-Rick May 2019 #14

The thing that really "gets my goat" is that the party pazzyanne May 2019 #28

That guy freely gave away his sperm. Once he gave it to her she gets to decide what happens Arazi May 2019 #35

BINGO! That's my take on it too. n/t CousinIT May 2019 #54

... 2naSalit May 2019 #148

Wrong. Your premises are both wrong. Anytime someone says "it's so simple", be sure that it is not. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #4

Horse pucky... 2naSalit May 2019 #7

:eyes: Men do not create ova, which is required. It is that simple. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #8

This isn't about what men want... 2naSalit May 2019 #15

Well said. Excellent response. mountain grammy May 2019 #27

Right on target! pazzyanne May 2019 #30

Hear, hear! smirkymonkey May 2019 #49

Women's control of their own bodies is paramount. But the OP is wrong. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #56

But obviously the pregnancies are all wanted by the state Farmer-Rick May 2019 #18

You just said "It is that simple" in support of your own claim. lapucelle May 2019 #21

Whoosh. The post I was replying to was simplistic and I was mocking it. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #57

Uh huh lapucelle May 2019 #93

A lesson in mocking that you missed Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #98

Have you figured out yet where donated sperm comes from? lapucelle May 2019 #106

The point about donated sperm went over your head too. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #111

Thev "point about the donated sperm" didn't go over my head. You made a mistake. lapucelle May 2019 #118

The mistake is in the article you endorsed by posting it unqualified. The article ignores other ways Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #123

Other ways of what? N/T lapucelle May 2019 #128

Your other ways. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #130

"The article ignores other ways"... of "[my] other ways"? Other ways of what? lapucelle May 2019 #131

Yeah.... that's the excuse I'd use as well. nt (part II) LanternWaste May 2019 #170

Oh don't be silly. There was no "excuse". Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #171

You are wrong. KentuckyWoman May 2019 #107

The post you are replying to states that men don't create ova. You say this is factually wrong. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #110

I wrote elsewhere in the thread "Women's control of their own bodies is paramount." Wrongheaded. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #112

What is wrongheaded about this support for women's rights that I wrote IN THIS THREAD? Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #113

Please consider this. zanana1 May 2019 #142

+1000.(nt) ehrnst May 2019 #165

The original poster was specifically talking about UNWANTED pregnancies. Texin May 2019 #45

Yes. Read my first post in this thread, #3. I am specifically talking about UNWANTED pregnancies. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #58

Where did the donated sperm come from? lapucelle May 2019 #86

Can't find a post from you earlier than this one. Note that the OP was referring to UNWANTED pregs. LAS14 May 2019 #137

Neither of those instances involve unwanted pregnancy. SunSeeker May 2019 #138

No, the premises are supported by science.(nt) ehrnst May 2019 #144

So, woman 100% cause wanted pregnancies, man 100% cause unwanted? Science? Not. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #145

.... ehrnst May 2019 #146

So, which group do you fall into? Scientifically? Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #157

..... ehrnst May 2019 #160

Not intended as one, but if you find it so, propose your own category G. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #161

...... ehrnst May 2019 #164

As it turns out, the 100-percenters in this thread are the ones guilty of exploiting False Dilemma Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #162

I wasn't one of those people. ehrnst May 2019 #163

I know. I had hoped for more than cute pictures. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #166

I had hoped for a challenging and thoughtful discussion.....nt ehrnst May 2019 #167

Write thoughtfully and you'll get one. I did my part. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #168

lulz ehrnst May 2019 #169

Now we know why your journal is empty. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #172

Lulz. ehrnst May 2019 #173

IVF is a willful act which the woman makes... 2naSalit May 2019 #150

Yep, even in the case of rape or incest. MoonRiver May 2019 #34

Unfortunately, not quite true MiniMe May 2019 #65

Sorry, while you might be right in spirit, you are wrong in fact. Plus you have a premise wrong. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #3

Yes - there are two sides to this malaise May 2019 #6

That would be an intentional pregnancy. lapucelle May 2019 #26

But if there are intentional pregnancies malaise May 2019 #40

"Cause was the word used by the author, not "blamed". N/T lapucelle May 2019 #48

So how is a man responsible for a pregnancy when the woman malaise May 2019 #51

If the man really doesn't want a child, he will wear a condom regardless of whether she is on MrsCoffee May 2019 #67

"Men Cause 100% of UNWANTED Pregnancies" is the title. N/T lapucelle May 2019 #74

How do you know the man wants the pregnancy the woman wants? malaise May 2019 #83

What's your point? lapucelle May 2019 #85

I Think The Point Was Pretty Obvious JimGinPA May 2019 #152

What does your claim that women have sex with men in order to "trap" them lapucelle May 2019 #153

If You Want To Get Into Specifics... JimGinPA May 2019 #154

Yes, but it was a wanted pregnancy on her part. lapucelle May 2019 #155

"There is no flaw in the point." JimGinPA May 2019 #158

Your son caused the unwanted pregnancy. lapucelle May 2019 #159

Want to avoid an unwanted pregnancy as a male? HuskyOffset May 2019 #10

I have a friend who was on birth control and her boyfriend was wearing a condom NickB79 May 2019 #24

Obviously. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #62

You can't deny this basic fact of biology. zanana1 May 2019 #12

You can't deny this basic fact of biology. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #63

If it is the man who does not want a pregnancy, lapucelle May 2019 #87

I got pregnant with an I.U.D. nt zanana1 May 2019 #114

Yes, it can happen. Probably you did not blame the man. Similarly in this thread ... Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #115

It seems the government wants all pregnancies. Farmer-Rick May 2019 #19

First of all, I didn't write the piece, lapucelle May 2019 #23

You endorsed the piece in your OP by posting link and excerpts with no negative comment. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #64

That still doesn't make the author's premise my premise. lapucelle May 2019 #76

If she wanted to get pregnant, then it was a wanted pregnancy. N/T lapucelle May 2019 #78

I honestly believe you didn't read the article.. mountain grammy May 2019 #33

Re: contraceptives & condoms Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #61

Yes, clear enough.. you make it sound so simple mountain grammy May 2019 #72

A little bit of touche' :) but if I had more time I'd have made it shorter :) Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #73

What about men who make mistakes putting on the condom? lapucelle May 2019 #75

whataboutism? What is you point about that? Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #103

I know you hold yourself to be an expert, lapucelle May 2019 #109

The post you link to was obviously not mocking. Here you deflect when asked if you have a point. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #117

Hmmm...perhaps the linked post, rather than being mocking, was being mocked. lapucelle May 2019 #119

Okay, reference was not clear because it was in a different large sub-thread. Still, your point? Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #120

The piece linked to is not about blame and only partially about responsibility. lapucelle May 2019 #122

No. "cause" is wrong. Assigning a cause assigns blame implicitly unless qualified. It wasn't. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #124

Assigning a "cause" does not assign a "blame" implicitly. lapucelle May 2019 #125

By your logic, a woman is never a cause of a pregnancy. You deny them agency even for that. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #129

There's no problem with the proposition that men cause 100% of unwanted pregnancies. lapucelle May 2019 #132

You might want to reread the piece. lapucelle May 2019 #108

If a man doesn't want a pregnancy lapucelle May 2019 #77

Your premise is that only woman have unwanted pregnancies. malaise May 2019 #99

I think your reply is intended elsewhere or is malformed. You replied differently to me to same post Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #100

I thought I replied to the OP malaise May 2019 #101

Yes. Your comment(s) incl this make points against the OP. Then you post that you agree 100% with OP Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #102

My only premise on this thread is that men are not always responsible for malaise May 2019 #104

Yes. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #105

"Unwanted" on the man's part, "wanted" on the woman's part. lapucelle May 2019 #133

And what about all the sperm... zanana1 May 2019 #11

Sperm well-wasted. We're overpopulating the earth anyway. n/t Eyeball_Kid May 2019 #38

I wish the ACA had mandated coverage for vasectomies IronLionZion May 2019 #13

The untold truth is... 2naSalit May 2019 #17

For a substantial portion of men, sex is little more than masterbating into a woman's body. SunSeeker May 2019 #25

This truly needs to be mandatory reading for ANYONE who wishes to vote on an abortion law. kag May 2019 #16

Love this piece. I wish ever Republican would read it. nt SunSeeker May 2019 #22

We'd need to allocate a lot of additional funding HuskyOffset May 2019 #29

This is an excellent article. mountain grammy May 2019 #31

She's correct. My wife and I met in high school and always wanted 4 kids. After the 4th I had a Pepsidog May 2019 #32

That's my idea of a great guy lapucelle May 2019 #82

Thank You! Pepsidog May 2019 #90

I think women who have partners who support the craziness of repubs should go on sex-strike Perseus May 2019 #36

Yes. Anti-choice truly is about punishing women for the deeds of men. n/t Eyeball_Kid May 2019 #37

Good point. Nitram May 2019 #39

lol this again Loki Liesmith May 2019 #41

Uh huh lapucelle May 2019 #94

Isn't this just a reworking sarisataka May 2019 #42

Not at all. In fact, she points out that unlike men, women's orgasms don't impregnate anyone. SunSeeker May 2019 #46

Yet she does point out sarisataka May 2019 #52

Saying only male orgasms cause pregnancy is not saying sex is only for procreation. SunSeeker May 2019 #59

The sex is for procreation only sarisataka May 2019 #68

So lesbians don't have sex? nt SunSeeker May 2019 #81

Personally, I strongly suspect sarisataka May 2019 #84

"If the P didn't go in the V you didn't have sex". N/T lapucelle May 2019 #97

Men can have vasectomies. N/T lapucelle May 2019 #96

Pregnancy can easily occur without a male orgasm. nt zanana1 May 2019 #116

Not easily. It could occur from the pre-ejaculate fluid. Or harvested sperm. SunSeeker May 2019 #134

When a man thinks he "pulled out" in time... zanana1 May 2019 #143

Not just as plentiful, but enough. nt SunSeeker May 2019 #149

He can have a vasectomy. N/T lapucelle May 2019 #95

Actually, I think women orgasming during sex has been determined to help pregnancy occur. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #69

Hell, even a little wine "helps." But no woman gets pregnant without a man ejaculating. SunSeeker May 2019 #80

That does not make the man 100% responsible. And there are pregnancies without ejaculation. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #121

Well, no woman gets pregnant without sperm from a man. There is no emaculate conception. SunSeeker May 2019 #135

Yes. However doctrinaire 100 percenters sabotage your excellent last sentence. Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #141

Rick Wilson just said a great line on the Joy Reid Show Bernardo de La Paz May 2019 #71

So we get credit for 100% of the WANTED pregnancies too, right? FBaggins May 2019 #43

Yes. CousinIT May 2019 #55

LIttle Muffin mcar May 2019 #66

Pro-life is a myth. keithbvadu2 May 2019 #44

K&R smirkymonkey May 2019 #50

Posted here earlier: CousinIT May 2019 #53

it's misguided qazplm135 May 2019 #60

In anti-choice states child support should be increased Buckeyeblue May 2019 #70

It's why I am pro-vasectomy. roamer65 May 2019 #79

I'm glad she was able to solve this 10,000 year old mystery fescuerescue May 2019 #88

What 10,000 year old mystery? lapucelle May 2019 #89

That's part of the mystery! fescuerescue May 2019 #91

... lapucelle May 2019 #92

BS. democratisphere May 2019 #126

Mmmmm no. Nuggets May 2019 #127

Neither of the two incidents you bring up resulted in pregnancy. nt SunSeeker May 2019 #136

Are you Nuggets May 2019 #139

No. The article asserts that men cause unwanted pregnancies. SunSeeker May 2019 #140

Every Sperm is Sacred nycbos May 2019 #151

Dr. Strangelove - Precious Bodily Fluids lapucelle May 2019 #156

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 11 #174