Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hunter

(38,310 posts)
29. I've been watching technological developments in renewable energy...
Thu Oct 14, 2021, 02:05 PM
Oct 2021

... since I was a radical young anti-nuclear activist in the later 'seventies and early 'eighties.

Well, the technology is here now and it's been found wanting.

At this moment only 24% of my electricity is coming from fossil fuels. Locally, it might even be less. There's so much solar installed in my neighborhood we may be exporting electricity on a sunny day. (The utilities seem to limit fossil fuel use to a 15% minimum, keeping a certain number of gas plants spinning in case of wind outages or transmission line failures.)

I can park under solar panels at the local supermarket, about a third of my neighbors have solar panels on their roofs, and the schools all have very large solar arrays.

But the stability of the grid is entirely dependent on natural gas. A megawatt rated wind or solar installation has to be backed up with a megawatt of gas capacity. More storage increases the cost of the power, but it doesn't decrease the possibility of outages in a linear way. It might even increase the risk of outages as storage systems reach the end of their capacity and drop offline.

The problem is the same at any scale, from a small off-grid cabin with solar panels and batteries, to a regional electric grid. Most of these systems are backed up by fossil fuels.

And we're not even talking about the high density energy systems required to feed and comfortably shelter eight billion people.

An economy powered entirely by "renewable energy" would look nothing like the economy many affluent people now enjoy. But that's not what made me change my mind about nuclear power. Rather, I no longer believe renewable energy can support the current human population. If we don't quit fossil fuels billions of people will suffer and die. If we do quit fossil fuels for renewable energy, billions of people will still suffer and die. I'm not worried about the rich guy driving the Tesla with the solar panels on his roof and the power wall in his garage, I'm worried about the family that has no access to clean water or nutritious food.

Our fossil fueled civilization has driven itself into a ditch. Nuclear power is the only existing technology powerful enough to displace fossil fuels entirely while maintaining the industrial capacity most of us depend upon for food, clean water, and safe shelter.

Ooh, completely surround Mar-a-Lago! tanyev Oct 2021 #1
Good! Windfarms don't spill toxic sludge on our beaches! SunSeeker Oct 2021 #2
Build the wall, of wind turbines! Bluethroughu Oct 2021 #3
That's a terrible idea hunter Oct 2021 #4
So we should abandon renewable energy all together? Vdizzle Oct 2021 #5
Hunter wants to make things better, as do I. StevieM Oct 2021 #18
So you think nuclear power is the answer womanofthehills Oct 2021 #7
That doesn't really align with reality. ForgedCrank Oct 2021 #9
Agreed, without huge advances in energy storage; wind and solar can only be a small source Amishman Oct 2021 #20
This is all a matter of managing our expectations. ForgedCrank Oct 2021 #8
Population OrangeJoe Oct 2021 #11
Energy can be stored quakerboy Oct 2021 #14
California moves huge amounts of water around... hunter Oct 2021 #21
There is a number of clean energy sources now and I doubt that the intention is to count on just one Bev54 Oct 2021 #17
Right. And nuclear. To keep everyone alive and the nation running Hortensis Oct 2021 #34
So we should develop nukes instead of storage technologies? lagomorph777 Oct 2021 #22
What storage technology do you propose? hunter Oct 2021 #26
Obviously, a complementary range of storage technologies. lagomorph777 Oct 2021 #27
I've been watching technological developments in renewable energy... hunter Oct 2021 #29
I might consider thorium, because it burns the filthy waste of uranium nukes. lagomorph777 Oct 2021 #30
He's going to cause CANCER!! live love laugh Oct 2021 #6
and kill all the birds the republicans don't shoot or poison certainot Oct 2021 #10
Bravo! Fuck nuclear power plants! C Moon Oct 2021 #12
Nuclear power won't destroy our civilization. hunter Oct 2021 #13
Thats why everyone is rushing to invest in quakerboy Oct 2021 #16
The most horrible thing we learned from Chernobyl and Fukushima... hunter Oct 2021 #24
renewables simply do not have enough ERoEI, nuclear does, and the latest gen reactors are far safer Celerity Oct 2021 #19
Bill Gates has it figured out WarGamer Oct 2021 #33
K & R Duppers Oct 2021 #15
Like anything else, technology for renewables will advance as we develop it. Midnight Writer Oct 2021 #23
That is great Bettie Oct 2021 #25
I wish they would pursue wave-action power too RussBLib Oct 2021 #28
It's windy there already. Why are they putting fans in? TrogL Oct 2021 #31
Good, don't forget the nukes WarGamer Oct 2021 #32
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Biden Plans Wind Farms Al...»Reply #29