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eridani

(51,907 posts)
35. You may or may not lose weight if you eat less and exercise more
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 06:17 PM
Jun 2013

It is true that the First Law of Thermodynamics must apply to the human body. And, given the simplistic approach which most people take, they are confused about what 'consumed' and 'burn off' mean.

Mitochondrial ATP uncoupling for heat generation has been indentified as one of the major energy utilization systems of the body and could account for 20-50 lbs/year of weight gain for people whose basal temperature is less than normal.
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There are active control systems which reduce the amount of energy used involuntarily for many of the body's autonomic functions. There are also significant energy excretion systems which are active also. According to the laws of thermodynamics it must be the case that --

C - N - S - I - H - E - V = 0

C = calories eaten
N = non-absorbed calories excreted in bowels
S = calories stored
I = calories calories used involuntarily (muscle maintenance, involuntary motion)
H = calories used for heat generation (mitochondrial ATP uncoupling)
V = calories used voluntarily (exercise, for example)
E = calories excreted in urine (Examples: fat converted to glucose in the liver and excreted in the urine, incompletely burned triglycerides which are excreted in the urine, and albumin excreted in the urine)

It should be noted that there is manual "free will" control only on C and V. People who think of human metabolism as a bank account are willfully ignorant that these other variables adjust automatically within an active control system. All adjust when any one of them changes. When C and V are changed "manually", there may be permanent alteration to the control system (as in long-term dieting).

The amount of energy stored is not 'whatever is left over'. The body actively stores or mobilizes energy from its energy store. If there is a energy deficit resulting from eating less and/or exercising more, it tries to increase C, causes a reduction in I, H, and E, and even actively prevents V. If there is an energy surplus, it tries to decrease C, increases I and H, encourages V, and, as a last resort, increases E.

The control system for these actions is decentralized. So it is possible for the energy store to believe that it needs to increase S, while simultaneously, the liver believes that it is necessary to increase E. This leaves I, H, and V at an extreme disadvantage.

If a fat individual is not lethargic and ravenous, then the control system is not unbalanced, but has a different equilibrium than average. One may wish that the equilibrium were different, but the system is not amenable to manual control (especially by manually varying C), and there are strict limits to an individual's ability to change it.

Decreasing C (dieting) has been shown to cause a long-term decrease in H and a long term increase in S, and to prevent I from increasing when V is increased. Millions of dieters have experienced this. Obesity researchers have verified this. And your typical snotty fat-basher will forever refuse to understand this.

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Read up on adenovirus serotype 36. Warpy Jun 2013 #1
Mere "overweight" certainly isn't always a problem Silent3 Jun 2013 #7
It reprograms muscle cells into fat cells, basically, Warpy Jun 2013 #10
The BMI scale doesn't take into account a large frame, either meow2u3 Jun 2013 #40
Anti Southern bigotry is remarkably popular on DU Fumesucker Jun 2013 #17
good job on the 15 miles a day arely staircase Jun 2013 #25
Let's not forget smokers, hughee99 Jun 2013 #34
A fat Southern smoker feeding Olive Garden takeout to their circumcised pit bull Fumesucker Jun 2013 #36
. Lurker Deluxe Jun 2013 #47
She must also breast feed someone, closeupready Jun 2013 #51
I agree with much of what you say, but my big complaint OKNancy Jun 2013 #2
our society is very much based on vanity and self righteousness. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #6
yes, it's prejudice pure and simple; and has a class bias as well. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #19
I certainly cared by myself that I was fat, and cared for myself. Silent3 Jun 2013 #24
What gets me wryter2000 Jun 2013 #3
Not only that, but >90% of people who have the will power or the surgery Warpy Jun 2013 #11
I'll take your "don't tell me it's simple" as a general comment to the world at large... Silent3 Jun 2013 #22
Not aimed at you wryter2000 Jun 2013 #26
Consuming less than you burn is flat out impossible over the long term eridani Jun 2013 #30
True wryter2000 Jun 2013 #49
A big misconception is that "healthy weight" people are healthy notadmblnd Jun 2013 #4
It's certainly a misconception to look at weight alone and go no deeper Silent3 Jun 2013 #8
It most assuredly does, at least for women eridani Jun 2013 #31
It's not "extra" fat if it's needed to support typical bodily needs. Silent3 Jun 2013 #39
Unfortunately when it comes to fat-bashing, that isn't true eridani Jun 2013 #44
K&R quinnox Jun 2013 #5
congratulations on your continuing efforts to stay healthy. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #9
While I certainly eat less sugar than before, I didn't have to go as far as elimination... Silent3 Jun 2013 #16
I allow myself a day of indulgence every once in a while but if I allow myself lit bits of sugar too liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #23
Lots of different motivations for eating/excessive caloric intake or inability to lose weight. haele Jun 2013 #12
Like you, I am baffled by the lack of longer inseams in the smaller sizes ... surrealAmerican Jun 2013 #13
In one way it certainly makes sense that we create labor-saving devices. Silent3 Jun 2013 #27
Exercise needs to be more than fun and enjoyable... surrealAmerican Jun 2013 #28
How would you implement the increased exercise? Silent3 Jun 2013 #41
A large percentage of our population lives in areas ... surrealAmerican Jun 2013 #42
Sugary sodas have a LOT of calories. Second, you are male. 3rd, you weren't morbidly obese. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #14
I actually eat out A LOT, which might surprise some people. Silent3 Jun 2013 #20
I'm with you on the sauces and dressing. Honeycombe8 Jun 2013 #37
To me "fault" implies moral judgement loyalsister Jun 2013 #15
You can control your weight in the same sense that gay people can control their sexuality eridani Jun 2013 #32
good point loyalsister Jun 2013 #50
It is possible to control your sexuality in exactly the same way eridani Jun 2013 #56
Your story is very similar to mine, though I've never been obese. closeupready Jun 2013 #18
I certainly knew I'd been overweight, but it took a while for me to think of myself as "obese". Silent3 Jun 2013 #21
"free gym at the office" Can you say class privilege? I knew you could. eridani Jun 2013 #29
I lost most of my weight before I even got near the gym at work... Silent3 Jun 2013 #46
Heck, this poor person lost 20% without ANY gym access - closeupready Jun 2013 #52
The biggest class/income issue when it comes to exercise might be available time... Silent3 Jun 2013 #53
And that makes you better than people who do simple cardio workouts and don't lose much eridani Jun 2013 #54
Do you think so? closeupready Jun 2013 #57
I get what you are saying but there are some things that need to change in our country Arcanetrance Jun 2013 #33
You may or may not lose weight if you eat less and exercise more eridani Jun 2013 #35
Nice breakdown of all the caloric "ins" and "outs" Silent3 Jun 2013 #38
The answer to how far the body can go is "A lot". JoeyT Jun 2013 #43
You are forgetting the mitochondrial ATP wastage cycle eridani Jun 2013 #45
"'Dave is one in a million,' says Dr. Craig M. Phelps, Alexander's doctor for 15 years." Silent3 Jun 2013 #48
Amended assertion: for women, it is a totally irrational goal eridani Jun 2013 #55
You cited an article as if it backed up your argument against some women even trying to lose... Silent3 Jun 2013 #58
If low body fat is so healthy, why do fat women outlive men with "ideal" body fat? eridani Jun 2013 #59
Weight aside, women in the US live an average of five years longer than men Silent3 Jun 2013 #61
Did you read the link about fat women not losing weight with exercise and diet-- eridani Jun 2013 #62
Why should one equate the frequent failure of diets with the idea that extra weight... Silent3 Jun 2013 #64
There is not one shred of evidence that extra fat leads to health problems eridani Jun 2013 #65
There definitely comes a time when it is slower going. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #63
And people who do the same things you do and don't lose weight are worthless pieces of shit? n/t eridani Jun 2013 #66
I am going to complain about pant sizes olddots Jun 2013 #60
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