Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: The Good Germans in Government [View all]DirkGently
(12,151 posts)31. There's long been a deliberate conflation
of "American interests" with "interests of the few and the powerful."
It's not a uniquely American evil -- we regularly call it out and cluck when we see Russia, China, et al transparently supporting some dictator they're selling weapons to or buying things from. It's a human evil as old as time. People ascribe false, beneficial motivations to selfish interests.
But I'm not sure anyone's doing it to the extent we are right now. It's a PNAC-flavored extension of trickle-down theory, really. We use the military and intelligence strengths we have not for defense, but for offense, and specifically, to obtain power and wealth for the influential and well-connected.
It's only a matter of time before we discover which American private interests are being fed intel on their competition and their critics. We saw one tip of the iceberg with the BOA / HBGary proposal to "destroy Glenn Greenwald" (him again) through dirty social networking tricks.
Nobody needs ten zillion phone records or e-mails to watch out a handful of poorly-armed foreign zealots who, we should remember, premise their attacks on us on the idea that we are already interfering with their countries and their politics.
This stuff is the current version of the CIA setting up banana republics in South America, or the Bush family invading countries in the Middle East. It's quiet and (theoretically) bloodless, but the motivations are the same. And the winners and losers will be the same.
The American public is not in the "win" column.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
84 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Individual conscience is predicated on accepting the consequences of authentic action & actions
patrice
Jun 2013
#1
I'm sorry, are we supposed to be prejudiced against Germans now too? Please clarify. nt
patrice
Jun 2013
#2
He's calling everyone who believes that the U.S. should have intelligence services NAZIs
ConservativeDemocrat
Jun 2013
#38
Hey, if this stuff is being made up, it isn't by me. Go waller some more in your pigeon shit.
reusrename
Jul 2013
#60
26 additional senators, together with Senator Wyden, are much more credible than you think.
reusrename
Jul 2013
#64
Feel free to fabricate an argument that I haven't made and then shoot it down.
reusrename
Jul 2013
#81
The fact that 69 years later some people still ask, "How could that have happened?" just shows how
Egalitarian Thug
Jun 2013
#3
Worse, are those reactionary screamers constantly crying "IT'S HAPPENING"!" since it helps inure us
KittyWampus
Jun 2013
#40
It is eerie hearing supposed progressives scream for the blood of the "disloyal."
DirkGently
Jun 2013
#4
There's a lott of stuff that is supposed by those who don't admit that they don't know what they
patrice
Jun 2013
#13
I'm not one calling for "blood". Only honesty about our differences & our similarities, which
patrice
Jun 2013
#10
Patrice how is one supposed to deal with costs process wise? We don't have any data
TheKentuckian
Jul 2013
#61
Exactly. It's Skinner's choice, but these authoritarian "Democrats" shouldn't be here.
backscatter712
Jul 2013
#67
Right on, but it won't happen because bourgeoisie think revolution is a fashionable cake walk. nt
patrice
Jun 2013
#15
True. Assange thought so and it's not so bad living at his pricey London address
flamingdem
Jun 2013
#20
Snowden will probably end up in Rio de Janeiro. Service worker #2 for the stateless
patrice
Jun 2013
#26
I don't watch CNN much, but it was on in the IRS waiting room the other day and I happened to
patrice
Jun 2013
#37
Ellsberg, Manning & Snowden refused to "just follow orders" and be "Good Americans".
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jun 2013
#12
Highly principled persons do make opposite choices just as freely and don't seek PRIVILEGE for
patrice
Jun 2013
#14
Are you saying that Ellsberg, Manning, and Snowden didn't face consequences?
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jun 2013
#18
No, I'm saying that any decision to act includes the consequences of action. Freedom isn't no
patrice
Jun 2013
#42
That would be President Mandela not "bishop". Maybe you're thinking of Bishop Tutu.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jun 2013
#43
No sarcasm. The nutcases on the right have made a cottage industry out of the false claim
baldguy
Jun 2013
#46
If the word "supposed" doesn't apply to you, that's argument from AUTHORITY, which makes you
patrice
Jun 2013
#51
Confirmed. It is argument from authority. ALL HAIL Authority, as long as it isnt Barack Obama. nt
patrice
Jul 2013
#68
My questions still stand: How many dead people does Robert think the possibility of being WRONG
patrice
Jul 2013
#69
How come I can't get Robert, the AUTHORITY, to tell us which issues & in what priority he's willing
patrice
Jul 2013
#70
How come I can't get Robert to tell us whether he's a Libertarian or not. You'd think such a great
patrice
Jul 2013
#71
How many people does Robert think should die for unregulated PRIVATE assault weapons trade around
patrice
Jul 2013
#72
*** you might want to ask yourself if you don't have a slight case of sycophancy, no wait, make
patrice
Jul 2013
#74
*** you might want to educate yourself on the philosophy & nature of sciience, anyone who CAN'T
patrice
Jul 2013
#75
Let me amend: anyone who CAN'T admit the possibility and consequences of being WRONG is
patrice
Jul 2013
#79