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In reply to the discussion: Does the Big Bang breakthrough offer proof of God? [View all]LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:29 AM - Edit history (1)
But its just the turtles all the way down argument rephrased in a new way.
Those conditions would have to have conditions which would have to have conditions and so forth on and on to infinity. Meaning that either there is no beginning (ie the multiverse itself is eternal) or that eventually you have to have something coming from nothing.
In other words one of your premises HAS to be wrong. Either that all things have to have conditions for which it to come from, or that
Again, for the something that comes from nothing works according to your argument. The original condition is that there is nothing. Nothingness is unstable and therefore gives birth to something. The zero-sum energy universe model fits that. Put into mathematicals terms think of zero as being the universe at the very beginning and 1 and -1 being positive and negative energy.
0=1+(-1)
The sum of the energy in the universe is still zero, but zero is unstable and gives birth to something (+1 and -1). The initial conditions are 0. This condition does not need conditions of its own to come into being.
Again, this goes back to the turtles all the way down argument. Which is based on the idea that everything must be supported. The world according to one myth is supported on the back of a giant turtle. But what is supporting that turtle? Another turtle. And that turtle? Another turtles. Its turtles all the way down into infinity.
One way or another the initial premise must be wrong. Either there does not need to be a beginning and those turtles are going on to infinity or something somewhere does not need to be supported. What did we learn thousands upon thousands of years later? The world is not support at all! Its floating is space.
No, we are basing it on deductive logic and evidence. In particular the first law of thermodynamics which has a TON of evidence supporting it.
Again, there is a HUGE difference in blind faith, and evidence based faith. One has a foundation of nothing, and the other a foundation of proof.
Again, you don't know if we will or if we wont be able to figure it out. But even if we never do, you do not have to believe that something always existed. Again nothingness could be unstable and the zero sum universe hypothesis (note its not a theory) supports that.