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DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
77. No. Enron was not a bigger crime.
Wed Apr 16, 2014, 11:00 AM
Apr 2014

Easier to prosecute? Definitely. But not more egregious and not by a thousand percent as damaging an example of law breaking and willful malfeasance than the suprime / housing bubble collapse and all its associated shenanigans.

There was crime, and fraud on a massive scale, and much more could and should have been done, going well back into the Bush years.

I'd say both administrations failed catastrophically in that regard. But tossing Taibbi under the partisan bus because he dared to point out something everyone knows -- that efforts by anyone to bring anyone to account for any of this have been pitiful -- does not hold up to scrutiny for good faith.

Here's some of Taibbi's excellent work on a civil trial illustrating just one area of fraud going on throughout the mortgage crisis:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/lurid-subprime-scams-unveiled-in-long-running-fraud-trial-20131212

In reality, of course, the subprime bubble exploded because financial companies and banks were in a mad rush to get as many iffy borrowers into loans as quickly as possible – and not because they were forced to, but because they made assloads of money doing so.

( snip )

Just to give one example, Household had a particularly disgusting scam going – they called it the "EZ Pay Plan."

In it, customers were urged to junk their old (and presumably safe) mortgages and switch to a new Household Refinance plan that would be both more expensive and more dangerous, using a little sleight of hand. Among other things, they told customers they could save money and reduce their interest rate by switching from a monthly payment plan to a biweekly payment plan.

There were two things going on here. One – and this is so sleazy it's almost funny – by getting customers to make payments biweekly instead of monthly, they would essentially box borrowers into making an extra payment every year (remember, there are 52 weeks in a year). The other is that the company was using word games to try to tell people they would be paying lower rates, when in fact they would not be.


One example of the fraud perpetrated on borrowers with predatory practices. We did a little a better, unsurprisingly, at prosecuting fraud against investors.

If anything, the problem with punishing anyone was that the entire subprime system became a whirling cesspool of ever-more-egregious scams. Sure, de-regulation got the ball rolling, but there are enough facts and perpetrators out there that we could have done infinitely more in terms of punishing actual crime.
I just can't hate Matt Taibbi. Autumn Apr 2014 #1
I Love Matt Taibbi billhicks76 Apr 2014 #27
Matt Taibbi is a meanie!!! QC Apr 2014 #48
You know I just love these words. "Like a SEAL team on meth" Autumn Apr 2014 #75
Have you ever seen anyone kick open a fire ant nest? QC Apr 2014 #81
Yeah all the time. And when certain people post Autumn Apr 2014 #135
That's why I don't use ignore. QC Apr 2014 #136
That's my thinking too. No way I would use ignore Autumn Apr 2014 #138
Just think of all you would have missed over the years QC Apr 2014 #188
If it's the one I noticed, yeah Autumn Apr 2014 #189
I'm sure we noticed the same one. n/t QC Apr 2014 #191
It's undoubtedly true. earthside Apr 2014 #2
When you post something controversial like this... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #7
Credit Manny with this graphic ... Scuba Apr 2014 #43
Go find a graphic that shows the law changes please. You won't, of course. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #51
Changing the law doesn't get Obama off the hook. earthside Apr 2014 #57
We are waiting for the expected investigations and prosecutions of those who collapsed the sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #125
"Doesn't everybody know this?" Enthusiast Apr 2014 #159
I've never liked Matt Taibbi MohRokTah Apr 2014 #3
Gee, what's not to like? 2banon Apr 2014 #84
I find that interesting. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #86
That assessment seems to be overly broad. 2banon Apr 2014 #93
I can only be overly broad because Taibbi lost me years ago. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #99
Yes, once you see someone play fast and loose with the facts two or more times, why continue reading stevenleser Apr 2014 #104
My guess is that you had no idea who Glenn Greenwald was in 2003 Maedhros Apr 2014 #109
Such attacks. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #110
Now, now. that's a sword that goes both ways... 2banon Apr 2014 #121
I had that same reaction with Christopher Hitchens.. 2banon Apr 2014 #120
Yeah, I wasn't ever able to get into Hitchens, either. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #147
Hitchens self identified as a Liberal 2banon Apr 2014 #160
Greenwald never came out publicly in support of the Iraq War Bjorn Against Apr 2014 #168
One might call this a lie... JackRiddler Apr 2014 #169
Then you haven't read Taibbi.[n/t] Maedhros Apr 2014 #103
Making such an assertion of fact about somebody you do not know. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #106
chill dude, you said up thread you don't read Taibbi. 2banon Apr 2014 #122
To say I have never read Taibbi is to call me a liar. eom MohRokTah Apr 2014 #134
big sigh.. you're over reacting and over stating 2banon Apr 2014 #143
My apologies, I obviously over reacted. eom MohRokTah Apr 2014 #146
Hilarious! HangOnKids Apr 2014 #149
Who signed TARP into law? Also, JaneyVee Apr 2014 #4
It's kinda hard to prosecute people for doing things that were legal. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #5
True, not to mention the rich write these laws JaneyVee Apr 2014 #8
Plus they had a free reign starting in 1981 that didn't end until the watered down Dodd-Frank. eom MohRokTah Apr 2014 #9
"Doing things that were legal" ??!!! bvar22 Apr 2014 #115
Most of what lead to the crash of 2008 was 100% legal. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #116
DING!! DING!!! DING!! We have a winner! The reason why very few are in jail is precisely due to Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2014 #157
But that doesn't Blame Obama First (BOF) MohRokTah Apr 2014 #163
I noticed that. No matter what, it's always BOF. I call it Obama Derangement Syndrome, but... Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2014 #182
I didn't mention Obama. bvar22 Apr 2014 #166
You mentioned absurdity on these forums. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #167
Illogical. bvar22 Apr 2014 #172
So what's your solution? laserhaas Apr 2014 #175
Sen. Obama pushed hard for TARP to be passed in the first place brentspeak Apr 2014 #11
TARP was absolutely necessary. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #12
"Tarp was absolutely necessary": Greatest lie perpetrated on the American people brentspeak Apr 2014 #17
Nice, calling me a liar. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #18
Clearly, you didn't bother to read Dean Baker's article brentspeak Apr 2014 #19
And I won't read hack BS you post MohRokTah Apr 2014 #20
Ok, bye n/t brentspeak Apr 2014 #21
Add me to that list. I agree. And despite your drama, you weren't called a liar. It jtuck004 Apr 2014 #34
Where did he call you a liar? DiverDave Apr 2014 #42
Liar... sendero Apr 2014 #46
Push bullshit, get called on it, feign indignation and refuse to respond. Marr Apr 2014 #82
If you'll have no truck maybe you need a cab? HangOnKids Apr 2014 #112
This would make a nice cab. QC Apr 2014 #117
brentspeak did not call you a liar. Not that I give a big crap. n/t fleabiscuit Apr 2014 #35
50% Oh my! progressoid Apr 2014 #40
Two of the greatest lies in history. TARP was a more insidious ballyhoo Apr 2014 #28
The government has made *billions* off TARP. How is that a bad thing? (nt) Recursion Apr 2014 #30
I haven't see any of my TARP-confiscated tax $$ returned to my wallet. brentspeak Apr 2014 #173
Some sort of massive government intervention was absolutely necessary. dawg Apr 2014 #65
Here are my ideas on a massive intervention... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #152
I agree with "Too big to fail is too big to exist". 2banon Apr 2014 #88
TARP was "necessary"???!!! bvar22 Apr 2014 #171
Who signed TARP into law? JaneyVee Apr 2014 #26
I have always liked Matt Taibbi MuseRider Apr 2014 #6
the Truth is partisan... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #10
Citing Enron & Andersen as part of proof of the Bush admin going after "corporations"? That's funny. stevenleser Apr 2014 #13
So you're proud of Obama's and Holder's records re Wall Street? DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2014 #22
Whether you agree with me or not, poor journalism on Taibbi's part doesnt make your point. stevenleser Apr 2014 #23
+1,000,000,000,000 eom MohRokTah Apr 2014 #24
I agree, and I particularly agree with this. DanTex Apr 2014 #25
Shock journalism; high on sensation, low on verifiable facts, is too tempting for some stevenleser Apr 2014 #71
I like some of what Taibbi has written. DanTex Apr 2014 #126
I think to understand him, you have to go back to his 'work' at "the Exile." stevenleser Apr 2014 #141
I think he's a little more than the Ann Coulter of the left -- like I said, I like some of his stuff DanTex Apr 2014 #184
Of course there was a choice in the situation just as there was/is a choice in the Wall Street PoliticAverse Apr 2014 #39
No, there was no choice, and the prosecutions came after the damage was done. Its a fail stevenleser Apr 2014 #54
The point is we missed a VERY LOW bar. DirkGently Apr 2014 #60
No, that's not the point because it assumes facts not in evidence. stevenleser Apr 2014 #66
Compared to DU links, "Taibbi has nothing?" DirkGently Apr 2014 #73
I think you need to reread your title. Whether citations are in links or in footnotes, they are stevenleser Apr 2014 #90
You wanted Little Blue links in his oral statements? DirkGently Apr 2014 #94
Let me make it further easier for you. Whether cited in oral statements, links or footnotes, stevenleser Apr 2014 #108
Hilarious tautology, Steven. DirkGently Apr 2014 #123
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2014 #61
Shhhh....it's OK if you're a Republican, or even a Paulbot Libertarian! MADem Apr 2014 #131
Holder just lets criminals walk joelz Apr 2014 #14
Only Because... billhicks76 Apr 2014 #31
LOL MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #15
I like Matt Taibbi, but this just isn't accurate. DanTex Apr 2014 #16
... Scuba Apr 2014 #44
Do you honestly think Bush was tougher on Wall Street and Corporate America than Obama? DanTex Apr 2014 #50
FACTS SUCK!!!! / sarcarsm <-----cause this is needed around here uponit7771 Apr 2014 #62
I think he's talking about the mortgage bubble / crisis DirkGently Apr 2014 #80
In that case it's an obviously poor comparison. DanTex Apr 2014 #89
I think it's supposed to be absurd. And it is. DirkGently Apr 2014 #92
It's still possible to keep a level head here. DanTex Apr 2014 #107
Well done. As always, the devil, for the anti-Obama left, is in the details. nt stevenleser Apr 2014 #113
Taibbi's not the one whose head's exploding here. DirkGently Apr 2014 #124
Taibbi is getting paid by the RNC Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #132
He also rides bears with Putin. Bare-chested. DirkGently Apr 2014 #137
He laughs maniacally while guzzling the tears of ballerinas. QC Apr 2014 #139
When I search for the words "teeth" and "father" in this thread, only your posts come up. DanTex Apr 2014 #142
I referred in part to a neighboring thread. DirkGently Apr 2014 #144
Well Said! 2banon Apr 2014 #180
Well, IMO there's a lot more anti-Obama silliness. DanTex Apr 2014 #187
You say, "Instead, the government loaned money to banks"... ljm2002 Apr 2014 #154
Matt Taibbi is anti-oligarchy. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #29
"I like the cut of his jib". 2banon Apr 2014 #98
Taibbi has earned a lot more bona fides from me than his critics. snot Apr 2014 #32
Somehow, Taibbi is racist. OnyxCollie Apr 2014 #33
Ah hurd he got a pole-dancin' gurlfriend too! DirkGently Apr 2014 #78
He refuses to pet his neighbors' dogs, too. QC Apr 2014 #83
I heard he has poster of Putin RIDING A BEAR! DirkGently Apr 2014 #95
Matt Taibbi was seduced by Putin's nipples. QC Apr 2014 #119
Matt Taibbi turned me into a newt! DirkGently Apr 2014 #127
That's called a dog whistle. ucrdem Apr 2014 #36
Enron wasn't "swept up by the Bush Justice Department," they went belly up. ucrdem Apr 2014 #37
And people at Enron went to jail n/t arcane1 Apr 2014 #111
Martha went to jail. Kennyboy just went away. nt ucrdem Apr 2014 #162
Skilling went to jail too. arcane1 Apr 2014 #170
To me it doesn't matter Unknown Beatle Apr 2014 #38
I've liked a lot of what Matt Taibbi has written, but not this. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #41
I like Matt Taibbi very much alcibiades_mystery Apr 2014 #45
Why can't Obama be more like Bush? Who is missing Dubya? ProSense Apr 2014 #47
Taibbi seems to be pissing off the right people. DirkGently Apr 2014 #49
Rather than ad-hominem attacks at fellow DUers, do you disagree with the points raised? If not stevenleser Apr 2014 #55
Oh bullshit Steven. "Ad hominem" is all they've got. DirkGently Apr 2014 #58
We're allowed to go ad-hominem against non-DUers. As you demonstrate with the President quite often. stevenleser Apr 2014 #59
Oh Jesus. There it is. It's about "the President." DirkGently Apr 2014 #64
Musings about others' sacred cows while you defend one of your own? stevenleser Apr 2014 #67
Just pointing out transparent bad faith. DirkGently Apr 2014 #76
I can see why he is Fox News worthy now, He thinks just like those that put him on as a token Lefty Dragonfli Apr 2014 #79
It doesnt surprise me that folks who think ad-hominem is a good debate tactic are against me. nt stevenleser Apr 2014 #85
Not against you, rather fascinated by your ilk who claim to represent liberals Dragonfli Apr 2014 #91
LMAO. Clearly my insistence on facts and evidence frustrates you. I get it. Continue with ad hominem stevenleser Apr 2014 #105
+1 Marr Apr 2014 #87
I agree; the meme of pissing off the right people treestar Apr 2014 #69
And We Have A Winner ProfessorGAC Apr 2014 #72
It's how journalists know they're doing their jobs. DirkGently Apr 2014 #129
I think his coverage of the 2004 campaign was stupid and juvenile dsc Apr 2014 #52
Luckily, Matt can still report from under the bus! djean111 Apr 2014 #53
Apparently all journalists belong there. DirkGently Apr 2014 #96
Those cases were swept up because they were national goddamn news. Arkana Apr 2014 #56
The worldwide ecnomic collapse wasn't in the news? DirkGently Apr 2014 #97
Enron, Tyco, and WorldCom were allowed to happen because of Bush-era policies. Arkana Apr 2014 #186
Yes. Does anyone actually believe Bush would have gone after Goldman Sachs or Obama would have Chathamization Apr 2014 #148
but it's true , isn't it? booley Apr 2014 #63
I don't care who wrote that, it's a stupid thing to say treestar Apr 2014 #68
I've never been a fan of Matt Taibbi. dawg Apr 2014 #70
I Actually Like Taibbi A Lot ProfessorGAC Apr 2014 #74
No. Enron was not a bigger crime. DirkGently Apr 2014 #77
Then We Disagree ProfessorGAC Apr 2014 #185
The collapse of 2008 was all about crime. Maedhros Apr 2014 #114
With only a few, rare exceptions, there was little provable fraud. dawg Apr 2014 #128
How about when lenders did the lying themselves? DirkGently Apr 2014 #130
According to the FBI agents to whom I have spoken regarding this issue, Maedhros Apr 2014 #140
But all my buddies at the SEC beg to differ. dawg Apr 2014 #145
Holy Shit When I Had Lunch With The Supremes HangOnKids Apr 2014 #150
I don't know if that is snark or not, but my job requires me to work with Federal agents regularly. Maedhros Apr 2014 #164
I think it's more about prosecturial difficulty. joshcryer Apr 2014 #178
Federal prosecutors focus on high-profile, large-dollar cases. Maedhros Apr 2014 #179
I think Rackoff has the best writeup about this: joshcryer Apr 2014 #183
And Bush's courts were Clinton appointments. joshcryer Apr 2014 #177
They don't makea bus long enough for all the people leeroysphitz Apr 2014 #100
Taibbi, like Greenwald, has to produce outrage to earn that sweet, sweet Omidyar money...nt SidDithers Apr 2014 #101
I love Matt Taibbi...I absolutely love him! K & R mother earth Apr 2014 #102
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Apr 2014 #118
Don't confuse the issue. gcomeau Apr 2014 #133
Matt Tiabbi is terrific and he is also looking for attention for his latest venture. Walk away Apr 2014 #151
don't shoot the messenger. yurbud Apr 2014 #153
This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Apr 2014 #155
Taibbi's earning his bones. He's got a (B)illioinaire sugar daddy to impress. Maybe now, he can... Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #156
Your post would be at home on Free Republic. Marr Apr 2014 #165
So would you. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2014 #190
Matt Taibbi was merely making an accurate observation. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #158
Meet the Corporate Crook jailed by President Bush in 2004: ucrdem Apr 2014 #161
I've got my own (REAL solid) bones to pic with Taibbi; but he's only human. Cut him some slack OKAY! laserhaas Apr 2014 #174
Um, they were convicted with Clinton's judicial appointments. joshcryer Apr 2014 #176
"White House Must Be Investigated for Role in Enron’s Fraud" ProSense Apr 2014 #181
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