Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: For The Record: The NSA Spied on All Americans. It Is a Fact. [View all]cui bono
(19,926 posts)43. So no new technology is covered by the constitution?
It only applies to horses and buggies? Please. You can't expect to be taken seriously when you use that as an argument.
Why are you asking if I know what a database is?
Clapper:
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/making-alberto-gonzales-look-good/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1
On March 12, James Clapper, director of national intelligence, testified at an open congressional hearing. Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, asked him whether the National Security Agency collects any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans.
His answer: No sir. Then he added: Not wittingly.
It was a lie, as everyone now knows from the articles about the N.S.A.s data-mining program.
Mr. Wyden knew it wasnt true at the time, since he is on the Senate Intelligence Committee and is privy to secret briefings from people like, well, Mr. Clapper.
On Sunday, NBCs Andrea Mitchell asked Mr. Clapper about the exchange.
First, I have great respect for Senator Wyden, Mr. Clapper said, using a Washington code phrase to indicate that he has no respect for the senator. I thought, though in retrospect, I was asked when are you going to startstop beating your wife kind of question, which is, meaning not answerable necessarily, by a simple yes or no. So I responded in what I thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner, by saying, No.
Mr. Clapper further explained his least-untruthiness by saying he thought Mr. Wyden was asking whether the N.S.A. was actually listening to phone conversations (which Mr. Wyden clearly was not). Going back to my metaphor, what I was thinking of is looking at the Dewey Decimal numbers of those books in the metaphorical library, he said. To me collection of U.S. persons data would mean taking the books off the shelf, opening it up and reading it.
On March 12, James Clapper, director of national intelligence, testified at an open congressional hearing. Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, asked him whether the National Security Agency collects any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans.
His answer: No sir. Then he added: Not wittingly.
It was a lie, as everyone now knows from the articles about the N.S.A.s data-mining program.
Mr. Wyden knew it wasnt true at the time, since he is on the Senate Intelligence Committee and is privy to secret briefings from people like, well, Mr. Clapper.
On Sunday, NBCs Andrea Mitchell asked Mr. Clapper about the exchange.
First, I have great respect for Senator Wyden, Mr. Clapper said, using a Washington code phrase to indicate that he has no respect for the senator. I thought, though in retrospect, I was asked when are you going to startstop beating your wife kind of question, which is, meaning not answerable necessarily, by a simple yes or no. So I responded in what I thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner, by saying, No.
Mr. Clapper further explained his least-untruthiness by saying he thought Mr. Wyden was asking whether the N.S.A. was actually listening to phone conversations (which Mr. Wyden clearly was not). Going back to my metaphor, what I was thinking of is looking at the Dewey Decimal numbers of those books in the metaphorical library, he said. To me collection of U.S. persons data would mean taking the books off the shelf, opening it up and reading it.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/07/02/Wyden-deeply-troubled-by-Clappers-domestic-spying-lie/UPI-69721372748400/
WASHINGTON, July 2 (UPI) -- Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., is "deeply troubled" by the top U.S. intelligence figure's public lie about domestic spying on Americans, the senator's office said.
Wyden said National Intelligence Director James Clapper's office within days admitted privately Clapper lied in public testimony at an open congressional hearing March 12, but Clapper refused to acknowledge this formally to the committee for 14 weeks.
The New York Times reported June 11 Wyden knew immediately Clapper's testimony wasn't true, because Wyden is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, which receives secret briefings from top intelligence officials, including Clapper.
But Clapper formally corrected the record only 11 days ago, when disclosures by rogue former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden prompted weeks of intense public pressure.
Wyden asked Clapper March 12 if the NSA collects "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans."
Clapper answered, "No sir," then added, "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly."
---
In a June 21 letter first reported by The Washington Post Monday, Clapper admitted to the Senate Intelligence Committee his answer March 12 was incorrect.
WASHINGTON, July 2 (UPI) -- Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., is "deeply troubled" by the top U.S. intelligence figure's public lie about domestic spying on Americans, the senator's office said.
Wyden said National Intelligence Director James Clapper's office within days admitted privately Clapper lied in public testimony at an open congressional hearing March 12, but Clapper refused to acknowledge this formally to the committee for 14 weeks.
The New York Times reported June 11 Wyden knew immediately Clapper's testimony wasn't true, because Wyden is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, which receives secret briefings from top intelligence officials, including Clapper.
But Clapper formally corrected the record only 11 days ago, when disclosures by rogue former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden prompted weeks of intense public pressure.
Wyden asked Clapper March 12 if the NSA collects "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans."
Clapper answered, "No sir," then added, "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly."
---
In a June 21 letter first reported by The Washington Post Monday, Clapper admitted to the Senate Intelligence Committee his answer March 12 was incorrect.
What the NSA is doing is unconstitutional. It is only legal because Obama pushed to legalize it. It was illegal when BushCo did it. Obama has expanded the program.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
169 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Welcome to DU!You actually consider that "not a problem" when the private sector collects your info?
villager
Apr 2014
#156
First of all, you do know that Wikileaks can be edited by anyone on the internet, right?
cui bono
Apr 2014
#13
Data bases are quite complicated,You type in a query and it returns the results
Dragonfli
Apr 2014
#78
Some apparently has a different fourth amendment, you know like Cliven Bundy,
Thinkingabout
Apr 2014
#47
I've seen that part of the hearing a number of times. Clapper answered the question truthfully.
George II
Apr 2014
#90
No one is entitled to their own "Facts" the fact is NSA spies and is spying on US all. Believe what
Vincardog
Apr 2014
#110
"have you noticed a flood of posters roughly 200 to 400 posts recently getting very animated in DU?"
Cali_Democrat
Apr 2014
#12
Getting that check every two weeks from Karl Rove helps keep perspective
MannyGoldstein
Apr 2014
#21
You can argue the unconstitutionality of a program before it reaches the high court.
ForgoTheConsequence
Apr 2014
#28
What evidence are you basing your certainty of "no they didnt" on? Are you absolutely certain?
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#46
Baffled that anyone believes the NSA didn't spy on all Americans, and doesn't still.
Skip Intro
Apr 2014
#27
So Mr. Jeff, you seem to enjoy finding cracks in arguments (whether they are there or not)
hueymahl
Apr 2014
#163
The problem with attempting a "gotcha" is you have to actually be clever to pull it off.
jeff47
Apr 2014
#65
Blatant epic false equivalency. Phone companies are not looking for criminals and terrorists.
L0oniX
Apr 2014
#92
I agree with you that corporate collection of personal information is a problem.
Maedhros
Apr 2014
#120
Manny, You Are A Treasure Here, And This Place Wouldn't Be The Same Without You !!!
WillyT
Apr 2014
#72
I remember then talking about listening for certian words and then tracking those words. That would
jwirr
Apr 2014
#86
I was not the one who fist suggested that they spied on us using words. I do not remember where
jwirr
Apr 2014
#98
It is fact the NSA spied on all Americans. I would not presume Obama was going to state any
Jefferson23
Apr 2014
#134
It is a material fact, yes, may be a disputed fact by the NSA..that is different.
Jefferson23
Apr 2014
#138
People are sometimes uncomfortable with information,the scope of the Snowden leak has been riveting.
Jefferson23
Apr 2014
#146
just lurking, but that's a total fail on your part. You can't answer a simple question.
uhnope
Apr 2014
#164
"Why bother with an investigation and trial? He's guilty. I'm sure of it."
LanternWaste
Apr 2014
#143
The NSA and the CIA have been doing things they shouldn't have since 1947 (CIA) and 1952 (NSA).
Sarah Ibarruri
Apr 2014
#158