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In reply to the discussion: Wikileaks Ukraine cable proves US government knew of fascist threat [View all]pampango
(24,692 posts)12. I would suggest to Putin that annexing eastern Ukraine will bring NATO to his border.
If Ukraine splits, the east will belong to Russia and the west will be pro-Europe and will very likely seek the protection of NATO membership since Russia's intentions will be clear. Seems to me his best outcome would be for Ukraine to remain territorially intact and not become a member of NATO.
I suppose he could go for the "have your cake and eat it too" strategy of taking over eastern Ukraine and then telling the western part of the country that they will not join NATO "or else".
Another issue driving Russian opposition to Ukrainian membership (in NATO) is the significant defense industry cooperation the two countries share, including a number of plants where Russian weapons are made. While efforts are underway to shut down or move most of these plants to Russia, the GOR (Government of Russia, in State Departmentese) has made clear that Ukraine's joining NATO would require Russia to make major (costly) changes to its defense industrial cooperation.
Russia's opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia is both emotional and based on perceived strategic concerns about the impact on Russia's interests in the region. It is also politically popular to paint the U.S. and NATO as Russia's adversaries and to use NATO's outreach to Ukraine and Georgia as a means of generating support from Russian nationalists. While Russian opposition to the first round of NATO enlargement in the mid-1990's was strong, Russia now feels itself able to respond more forcefully to what it perceives as actions contrary to its national interests.
Isabelle Francois, Director of the NATO Information Office in Moscow (protect), said she believed that Russia had accepted that Ukraine and Georgia would eventually join NATO and was engaged in long-term planning to reconfigure its relations with both countries, and with the Alliance. However, Russia was not yet ready to deal with the consequences of further NATO enlargement to its south. She added that while Russia liked the cooperation with NATO in the NATO-Russia Council, Russia would feel it necessary to insist on recasting the NATO-Russia relationship, if not withdraw completely from the NRC, in the event of Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO.
Russia's opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia is both emotional and based on perceived strategic concerns about the impact on Russia's interests in the region. It is also politically popular to paint the U.S. and NATO as Russia's adversaries and to use NATO's outreach to Ukraine and Georgia as a means of generating support from Russian nationalists. While Russian opposition to the first round of NATO enlargement in the mid-1990's was strong, Russia now feels itself able to respond more forcefully to what it perceives as actions contrary to its national interests.
Isabelle Francois, Director of the NATO Information Office in Moscow (protect), said she believed that Russia had accepted that Ukraine and Georgia would eventually join NATO and was engaged in long-term planning to reconfigure its relations with both countries, and with the Alliance. However, Russia was not yet ready to deal with the consequences of further NATO enlargement to its south. She added that while Russia liked the cooperation with NATO in the NATO-Russia Council, Russia would feel it necessary to insist on recasting the NATO-Russia relationship, if not withdraw completely from the NRC, in the event of Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO.
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Wikileaks Ukraine cable proves US government knew of fascist threat [View all]
go west young man
May 2014
OP
Couldn't your question be asked completely in reverse to the Kiev coup?
go west young man
May 2014
#80
Do you support Coup D'etats in Democracies as a way to remove leaders? Should we have done that
sabrina 1
May 2014
#103
There was a coup in Ukraine and a president was installed without the consent of a majority of the
sabrina 1
May 2014
#148
Why is Blackwater in Ukraine? There was a coup, the president is not elected. My question was 'who
sabrina 1
May 2014
#120
There Is No Proof They Are, Ma'am: That Is A Sort Of 'Gish-Gallop', Really
The Magistrate
May 2014
#122
My question was simple, 'who elected the President of Ukraine' and you went off into the parliament
sabrina 1
May 2014
#127
My position in my opinion, is based on a gathering of facts from multiple sources across the globe.
sabrina 1
May 2014
#131
Your Position, Ma'am, Is Neither Consistent, Nor Grounded In Realities Of Governance and Revolution
The Magistrate
May 2014
#133
You can't have it both ways. On the one hand, you claim that the government is 'legitimate because
sabrina 1
May 2014
#134
You Are Attempting To Be Reasonable, Ma'am, But Still Distorting Facts Grotesquely
The Magistrate
May 2014
#147
I am speaking the truth. One doesn't have to struggle too hard to tell the truth. It simply is
sabrina 1
May 2014
#149
There is certainly huge resistance to what normally Democrats would be all over, as they were during
sabrina 1
May 2014
#128
No elected Parliament in a Democratic Nation would condone a Coup of the duly elected President.
sabrina 1
May 2014
#130
'A Rose By Any Other Name Would Smell as Sweet'! Of course they change their NAME but they still
sabrina 1
May 2014
#132
If they are, it's the same reason they're anywhere else: someone's paying them to be
Recursion
May 2014
#146
Too late for an election AFTER a coup, don't you think? It's clear that at least half the country
sabrina 1
May 2014
#144
"the US is backing and financing extremely violent right wing nationalist fascists"
Zorra
May 2014
#2
I did not see that quote in the post. Did I miss it or is it from somewhere else? n/t
pampango
May 2014
#13
"But supporting a government that also happens to include right-wing fascists is not putting..
Cha
May 2014
#100
People are dying on both sides...that is obvious to the most basic simpleton...
go west young man
May 2014
#60
I would suggest to Putin that annexing eastern Ukraine will bring NATO to his border.
pampango
May 2014
#12
Will that change the fact that the cable is from 2008 and the OP is pro-Russian spin? n/t
ProSense
May 2014
#70
They are still cooperating with NATO on Afghanistan supplies, but in 2010 they also posted their
jakeXT
May 2014
#71
There are different kind of stages of involvement, Sweden for example has participated in NATO
jakeXT
May 2014
#86
Some observers like Kucinich or Cohen didn't trust the military part, maybe Russia did too
jakeXT
May 2014
#88
Well this is what happened with the new 'legitimate' government in Parliment today.
Obnoxious_One
May 2014
#107
For some reason you think that being anti-nazi equates to thinking that America should
Obnoxious_One
May 2014
#109
Yes I call people that burn people alive and murder them animals, read the article from #65.
Obnoxious_One
May 2014
#111