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Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
18. I've read this and similar essays, both in DU & elsewhere.
Tue May 27, 2014, 11:16 AM
May 2014

I don't know how "settled" the law was since through much of the first 2 centuries since the revolution there have been fewer than than a dozen SCOTUS cases that even mentioned 2A.

He didn't mention the Miller case in his militia clause argument, but the ban on short-barreled shotguns came as a result of government counsel's argument, and not of defendant Miller: He was dead and his lawyer a no-show when the case was heard.

Not much argument about the militia service requirement he references, don't know what is "surprising" there. But that does not impinge on the RKBA being retained by "the people" unless, as he seems to imply once again, that the "justification" clause conditions the "operative" clause. It does not.

I can't link on this hand-held, but Eugene Volokh in his essay "The Common Place Second Amendment" (google this) makes a sound argument that "justification" clauses did not impinge in "operative" clauses, nor cause a right to "expire" once the justification (militia) no longer exists; it is merely a justification.

Tellingly, Volokh cites several state constitutions which use the same justification-operative language structure when listing Other rights. Who would argue that such justifications condition civil rights in those states? Nocera's views on 2A are outliers when compared with the bulk of scholarly work on 2A.

http://www2.law.ucla.ed

A well regulated Militia, [View all] MannyGoldstein May 2014 OP
Too many guns in this nation. hrmjustin May 2014 #1
As a matter of fact -- Yes. Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #2
When are all the old gun fanciers gonna turn in their gunz? Hoyt May 2014 #3
"When are all the old gun fanciers gonna turn in their gunz?" Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #4
If you are using your definition of militia, at 46 you are out and women Hoyt May 2014 #5
First, it's not MY definition; it's federal law Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #9
I seem to recall someone named The Straight Story May 2014 #10
Nice contribution; not just for the current debate but female empowerment in general. TY n/t Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #12
interesting, so congress can change the meaning of the constitutional term "militia" at any time? unblock May 2014 #33
Perhaps. Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #35
I thought DC V. HELLER struck down the National Guard argument derby378 May 2014 #37
It did. But some still continue to insist militia-or-nothing. Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #39
Most of the states have a militia requirement written into their Constitutions. former9thward May 2014 #51
neither state nor federal law trumps the constitution. unblock May 2014 #52
The Constitution does not outlaw militias. former9thward May 2014 #56
really not understanding that, it seems quite circular. unblock May 2014 #57
Not to speak for Former9th but -- Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #59
all i'm trying to say is: unblock May 2014 #62
I can see your point. Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #64
"Well regulated" Doesn't that mean there can be regulations and limits put on doc03 May 2014 #6
You are right...the 2nd amendment needs updating... davidn3600 May 2014 #7
The Constitution DOES mention "press," and yet here we are...nt Eleanors38 May 2014 #25
I believe "well regulated" at the time madville May 2014 #42
And the RKBA is recognized as that of "the people," Eleanors38 May 2014 #8
I think you should read Joe Nocera's OpEd in the NYT today. He pushes back on CTyankee May 2014 #11
"Rather than a right, it was an obligation...another thing entirely" Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #16
I've read this and similar essays, both in DU & elsewhere. Eleanors38 May 2014 #18
Well, to me it's another way of looking at the same language that you look at. CTyankee May 2014 #43
Gun control is a losing issue for Democrats. Laelth May 2014 #13
I agree with the thrust of your argument, but am a Eleanors38 May 2014 #23
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Laelth May 2014 #26
I read your other post as well & need to think about some Eleanors38 May 2014 #29
Blush. Laelth May 2014 #31
agree with Eleanor -- you raise some good points and articulate them well maggiesfarmer May 2014 #48
Thank you. n/t Laelth May 2014 #49
OK, Erase Gun Control DonCoquixote May 2014 #55
Gun control may be a moral and ethical issue. Laelth May 2014 #61
Just take a look at this picture: Laelth May 2014 #60
Both the president and the Democratic party platform say the 2A protects an individual right hack89 May 2014 #14
"Prussia is not a state that has an army, but an army that has a state." Mirabeau Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #15
A s good a reason to adopt the Swiss model as any. Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #17
Or, disarm them all. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #20
How? Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #21
Make it a felony to possess a firearm. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #36
And when that fails spectacularly? Nuclear Unicorn May 2014 #40
The same as always. *Shrug* and be amazed at what people will accept. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #45
"the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." frankieallen May 2014 #19
Just like the NRA, you leave out the "well-regulated militia" part napkinz May 2014 #22
I don't agree..... frankieallen May 2014 #30
the fact that you would exclude/delete HALF of the Second Amendment told me all I need to know napkinz May 2014 #41
Then why did they throw in that part about the militia? There is no such language in CTyankee May 2014 #44
I don't know why they put it in there, too bad we can't ask them. frankieallen May 2014 #50
Yes, it is called the Bill or Rights but here I can understand why they thought CTyankee May 2014 #53
It's only a part of the "well-regulated militia" MAIN POINT. WinkyDink May 2014 #32
nothing in the constitution stands by itself. unblock May 2014 #54
When every person is an "army of one" you no longer have a civilized society. Skidmore May 2014 #24
I don't know, the Swiss seem pretty civilized. Eleanors38 May 2014 #28
There's a bit more involved: their militia requirements; their homogeneity; their history of war- WinkyDink May 2014 #34
they put more restrictions on guns than you would probably accept... CTyankee May 2014 #46
When has it ever been illegal for a Jenoch May 2014 #27
A Well Regulated Militia Wolf Frankula May 2014 #38
Hi! I carry a gun around in public, but not because I constantly question my manhood. Rex May 2014 #47
I think well-regulated militias should drink prune juice twice a day LiberalEsto May 2014 #58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792 joeybee12 May 2014 #63
... napkinz May 2014 #65
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