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DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
223. Oh dear. You understand what an "anecdote" is, right?
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:04 PM
Jul 2014

Last edited Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:42 PM - Edit history (1)

No amount of individual "stories" proves a generalization about groups of individuals. True of people. True of dogs.

You're the Australian Shepherd fancier, aren't you? Good to see you.

But as we've discussed, that excellent breed has its own deadly anecdotes, too.

Your logic is a perfect example of the confirmation bias illogic at work here. It's quite the same as racist logic. Interpret actions of members of your own group as the misdoings of an individual. Attribute acts of another group to inherent problems with all of "them."

Right?

A 3 year old Worth County is recovering Sunday from a dog attack. The little girl was playing at her neighbors house when an Australian Shepherd, a typically friendly dog, mauled her face.

"He bit me," says Summer Gray, Dog Attack Victim. 3 year old Summer Gray is recovering from a dog attack. "He has sharp teeth," says Summer Gray.

She was playing at a neighbors house Saturday afternoon in Sylvester when an Australian Shepherd mauled her.

http://www.walb.com/story/16679796/dog-attacks-3-yr-old-girl

BRADENTON, Fla. - Two Australian Shepherd dogs are the Grinches who managed to ruin the Christmas holiday for Justin Curtis and his family.

The dogs left him with stitches and on crutches after attacking him on Christmas Eve as he tried to give the mailman a letter his father forget to send out.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-sarasota-manatee/bradenton/deputies-man-steps-in-to-help-13-year-old-boy-being-attacked-by-dogs-both-bitten

Anyone can play games with anecdotes. It's the bias with which they are intepreted that matters.

Do you actually imagine you couldn't find the same kinds of stories with all kinds of breeds? The two Aussie Shepherd stories took about 20 seconds to find.


The Facts

According to the American Veterinary Medicine Association, “controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous.” The American Temperance Testing Society (ATTS) puts thousands of dogs – purebreds and spayed and neutered mixed-breeds – through their paces each year. The dogs are tested for skittishness, aggression and their ability to differentiate between threatening and non-threatening humans. Among all of the breeds ATTS tested – over 30,000 dogs through May 2011 — 83 percent passed the test. How did pit bulls do? They showed an above average temperament, with 86 percent making the grade. Pit bulls are the second most tolerant breed tested by ATTS, after only golden retreivers.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/05/in_defense_of_the_pitbull_partner/

A fistful of anecdotes does not add up to the kind of anti-breed paranoia argued for now. Plenty of other dogs have been subjected to the Super Murder Dog myth.

As Karen Delise details in her book, in the 19th century, bloodhounds were believed to be inherently vicious, having a taste for human blood. “Eventually,” she writes, “these bloodhounds fell from view, and we pushed other dogs into the spotlight, including the German Shepherd dog and the Doberman Pinscher.” (Dobermans were widely believed to have abnormally small brains, turning them into mindless killers, but this, like the pit bull’s “locking jaws,” was simply a myth.) Other breeds that have haunted the popular imagination in the past include mastiffs and Newfoundlands. In Canada, Siberian huskies have often played the role of killer-hound


So it remains the case that making "Pitbulls" as the Super Killer Murder Dog is a new thing, born of the same biases and mythology that made bloodhounds and Shepherds and Dobies and so many others the canine bogeymen (bogeydogs?) of the past.

Thanks for implying people who don't fall for this silly anti-dog bigoted mythology nonsense "nutters," by the way. I assume you are including the CDC and the American Veterinary Medicine Association in this thoughtful observation.

Although, I think a better case for defective reasoning or mental imbalance could be shown where someone who owns one kind of dog resolutely discounts anecdotes of that breed's "dangerous" behavior as irrelevant, while trying to make a case that similar anecdotes about another breed prove its inherent inferiority?

BAD IDEA! boston bean Jun 2014 #1
I wish people would spay and neuter roody Jun 2014 #2
That is very true! etherealtruth Jun 2014 #5
Pit Bulls are killed out of unreasoned hatred, uninformed fear & outright prejudice. baldguy Jun 2014 #7
millions of unwanted dogs aof all breeds are killed elehhhhna Jun 2014 #21
And what of the *wanted* dogs that *should* exist? Do they get killed as well? baldguy Jun 2014 #23
Pitbulls are being killed....because they bite people wercal Jun 2014 #88
Thank you for your post. SheilaT Jun 2014 #91
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #101
Haters are gonna hate. NutmegYankee Jun 2014 #105
I voted against hiding the post you're responding to. delrem Jun 2014 #133
Some of their owners have freaked me out. nt arthritisR_US Jun 2014 #137
But now you speak about their owners. delrem Jun 2014 #138
Untrue - the three most aggressive breeds are Dachshunds, Chis and Jack Russell Terriers adigal Jun 2014 #150
I've been around my share of dachshunds and jack russells, SheilaT Jun 2014 #159
Here's the link adigal Jun 2014 #164
That's such BS. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2014 #189
What do you think about the fact DirkGently Jun 2014 #211
+++++++++ uppityperson Jun 2014 #212
Ok show me a youtube video of a 911 call "My Chihuahua is killing my mother and I can't stop him!!!! Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2014 #214
You're mistaken. Killing machine stories go back at least a hundred years. Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #221
Oh dear. You understand what an "anecdote" is, right? DirkGently Jul 2014 #223
Please don't consider irresponsible roody Jun 2014 #145
This is so silly....I have brought thousands of dogs up from the south adigal Jun 2014 #149
Why is it necessary to bring thousands up from the south? TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #171
We don't kill most breeds up here and we have no puppies adigal Jun 2014 #185
Sounds like the south needs to come into the 21st century TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #187
In the suburbs and rural areas, they don't care adigal Jun 2014 #188
Yeah, it sounds pretty back asswards. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #190
You forgot, BAD and IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS! nt arthritisR_US Jun 2014 #136
I tried to post an image etherealtruth Jun 2014 #3
No, they don't seveneyes Jun 2014 #4
Thanks for the reminder to donate to Victoria Wilcher, TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #6
Victoria was maimed because of her own kin. baldguy Jun 2014 #12
..and their four-legged shredding machines. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #16
So, you are advocating the murder of a member of my family baldguy Jun 2014 #19
What are you babbling about? TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #22
"Those dogs got off easy..." Considering those dogs were KILLED, baldguy Jun 2014 #24
My money is on the lovely little girl, and not the dogs. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #25
And would you finally admit you would kill my dog as well? baldguy Jun 2014 #28
Make sure it sticks to gnawing the red rubber ball in the background TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #29
So you acknowledge that the responsibility is on the owners, then. Scootaloo Jun 2014 #30
Bullshit! The BSLs you support take away well-behaved, properly socialized dogs from their families baldguy Jun 2014 #31
Alcoa or Reynolds? TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #37
You support BSLs. BSLs kill innocent dogs & deprives their humans of loving family members. baldguy Jun 2014 #39
I don't know what a BSL is, never heard of it, TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #50
Breed Specific Legislation, which goes along with fearing or hating all dogs of a particular style uppityperson Jun 2014 #60
A family friend has a son with no penis or testicles, thanks to a Pitt bull joeglow3 Jun 2014 #98
How is that *MY* dog's fault? baldguy Jun 2014 #106
How is Sandy Hook *MY* guns fault? joeglow3 Jun 2014 #107
Train your gun NOT to shoot someone. baldguy Jun 2014 #108
So, you oppose all gun legislation? joeglow3 Jun 2014 #110
Far from it. All guns should be registered & all gun owners should be licensed. baldguy Jun 2014 #114
So, you put pit bulls up there with constitutional rights? joeglow3 Jun 2014 #118
You put the "rights" of inanimate objects over those of living, breathing, FEELING creatures? baldguy Jun 2014 #120
No. I put them both down extremely low. joeglow3 Jun 2014 #121
But you're willing to allow humans to continue to be massacred by guns. baldguy Jun 2014 #123
Real numbers don't tell the story joeglow3 Jun 2014 #128
Real number do tell the real story. baldguy Jun 2014 #130
I never said keep all the guns joeglow3 Jun 2014 #134
Guns can be locked up Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2014 #222
Looks like a cute dog. MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #33
Awww, cutie pie. roody Jun 2014 #40
Yes, she is. baldguy Jun 2014 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author Mugu Jun 2014 #47
Love her ears! get the red out Jun 2014 #54
we've been looking for that dog! snooper2 Jun 2014 #57
Awwwww BigL Jun 2014 #78
She is a beauty malokvale77 Jun 2014 #96
There are no bad guns, only bad gun owners. joeglow3 Jun 2014 #99
This sweetie looks just like my neighbor's Pit that chased off some creep following me home IVoteDFL Jun 2014 #183
That is EXACTLY what my redneck neighbor said about his gun. joeglow3 Jun 2014 #97
Creepy comment. "Kin?" Like "those people?" Really? DirkGently Jun 2014 #61
I don't agree it's entirely due to their upbringing. hollowdweller Jun 2014 #8
As you imply, we humans should breed dogs for companionship and behavioral traits... targetpractice Jun 2014 #15
You can breed for temperament. You can't ensure temperament by DirkGently Jun 2014 #63
You bring up a good point about socialization beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #72
"Hate me all you want, I'm gonna love you right back... Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #9
Does it include photos of children mauled by pit bulls? LisaL Jun 2014 #10
. baldguy Jun 2014 #34
Pit Bulls are like firearms. dilby Jun 2014 #11
30 vs 30,000 baldguy Jun 2014 #17
Compare number of pit bulls in the US to number of Firearms. dilby Jun 2014 #18
You can't even multiply correctly. baldguy Jun 2014 #20
No I think my figures look about right. dilby Jun 2014 #41
A gun death by suicide is less dead than a gun death by murder? Sorry, it don't work that way. baldguy Jun 2014 #43
I think that is the argument gun owners always make. dilby Jun 2014 #46
Guns can not be trained not to shoot. 10,000 kids are injured each year by guns, with 500 dead. baldguy Jun 2014 #48
Are you actually comparing a gun to a living being? etherealtruth Jun 2014 #111
People are "just like firearms" in exactly the same way. DirkGently Jun 2014 #66
That is true and it's why I don't leave my children alone with strangers. dilby Jun 2014 #67
Nor would anyone argue for leaving them with a strange dog. DirkGently Jun 2014 #68
This again??? Really?? n-t Logical Jun 2014 #13
Children probably shouldn't be around dogs capable of such immense bite pressures. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #14
Yeah, because a spike-studded collar just radiates cute and cuddly. scarletwoman Jun 2014 #26
Ha! Good point! elias49 Jun 2014 #44
A poor choice artistically, considering the intended message. Throd Jun 2014 #45
Again, judging individuals based on what they look like is irrational. baldguy Jun 2014 #49
Maybe if all whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #27
Way more inspirational for children than TV MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #32
. baldguy Jun 2014 #35
Really? De Leonist Jun 2014 #69
Not everybody is a dog whisperer cpwm17 Jun 2014 #87
Misbehaving ? De Leonist Jun 2014 #92
What might that dog have done to... say, a toddler? nt MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #203
Hard to say..... De Leonist Jun 2014 #206
I knew this thread would go this way. flvegan Jun 2014 #36
Reminds me of nothing as much as the Heritage Foundation panel on Benghazi: baldguy Jun 2014 #38
Very poor argument. DetlefK Jun 2014 #51
99.9999% of Muslims in the world do not want to kill you. baldguy Jun 2014 #102
Do have hard numbers? DetlefK Jun 2014 #205
here is a rational voice on the topic of kids and pits DrDan Jun 2014 #52
Bad logic, up and down. Any large dog can do harm. DirkGently Jun 2014 #58
I have wondered for some time - which group originated this "you cannot identify" meme DrDan Jun 2014 #62
Eck. Cheap shot. And it's simply the truth regarding pit bulls, like it or not. DirkGently Jun 2014 #65
Of course whenever you want to post a media account of a courageous pit whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #71
Not anything I ever post DirkGently Jun 2014 #74
I don't ascribe concepts like 'evil' to animals whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #76
And you can't tell either biology or instinct from a dog's appearance. DirkGently Jun 2014 #79
So my neighbor was wrong about what kind of dog he had? whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #85
So if this one awful dog was a "Pit Bull," you have proved something? DirkGently Jun 2014 #89
I don't remember any cases of a poodle ripping out the tongue of a child, or any other breed for DrDan Jun 2014 #147
Don't you know some folks don't want to hear that? theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #155
their excuses are getting lamer and lamer . . . as the attacks pile up DrDan Jun 2014 #157
Well, Golden Retrievers sometimes tear children's legs off. DirkGently Jun 2014 #174
Because focusing on nebulous claims of "breed" gives you selective memory? DirkGently Jun 2014 #173
I don't believe anyone has claimed ALL attacks were from pit bulls DrDan Jun 2014 #175
Okay, Dr. Backpedal. What exactly DO you claim? DirkGently Jun 2014 #176
the facts are clear - pits do MORE than their share of bites, deaths, maulings, and tragedy DrDan Jun 2014 #177
Buut .. none of your "facts" have held up yet. DirkGently Jun 2014 #180
So your horrific anecdote proves a case DirkGently Jun 2014 #182
How about a husky eating the head of a child? uppityperson Jun 2014 #194
Yep. Agree. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2014 #81
The dog in the Bakersfield attack was a lab/chow mix. Jenoch Jun 2014 #127
That's right -- thanks. Chow Chows can be bitey DirkGently Jun 2014 #135
Animals don't just "get angry" unless your asshole kid sticks a pen in his ear adigal Jun 2014 #154
oh really . . . DrDan Jun 2014 #156
You are taking one attack, which has extraordinary circumstances, nd painting a whole breed adigal Jun 2014 #158
that "one" pit bull attack occurs daily - and typically a child is the victim DrDan Jun 2014 #160
Sigh. They don't attack more than other dogs. adigal Jun 2014 #163
the injuries are significantly more serious, hence the increased scrutiny DrDan Jun 2014 #170
I do understand that. I hate what happens to pits in the wrong hands. adigal Jun 2014 #186
We had a family friend have their 3 year old's penis and testicles torn off by a pitt bull joeglow3 Jun 2014 #179
I pulled a fox terrier off the genitals of a friend's toddler. uppityperson Jun 2014 #195
With the pit bull, there was no "in time" joeglow3 Jun 2014 #196
I have students who characterize an entire race of people as bad or lazy because of a few kids adigal Jun 2014 #161
no hatred or fear - just able to see the violence and havoc these dog create daily DrDan Jun 2014 #162
Please don't make assumptions that I don't adigal Jun 2014 #165
It's the same logic as all bigotry. DirkGently Jun 2014 #198
And the original post reads: "Children Need Pit Bulls" TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #166
In England, they were the Nanny Dog adigal Jun 2014 #167
Do you have a citation for that? XemaSab Jun 2014 #199
Yep, all those mauled "asshole kid"s had it coming, right? nt Union Scribe Jun 2014 #209
I wish more could be done get the red out Jun 2014 #53
I volunteer at the local Humane Shelter. dballance Jun 2014 #55
May you have a million blessings for your work. Thank you. n/t adigal Jun 2014 #168
Dear Pit Bull haters.... De Leonist Jun 2014 #56
Yeah I've met several whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #59
I'm sure that was a sad and horrific experience for your son and wife to go through.... De Leonist Jun 2014 #64
I remember the neighbor getting the dog as a puppy whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #70
I was savagely attacked by a Great Dane when I was 17. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #73
Were you maimed? whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #75
Yes, but slightly. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #77
Sorry to hear that whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #80
My world view is constantly evolving. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #84
Indeed. The mythology of Pit Bull superpowers. DirkGently Jun 2014 #83
The Dane that attacked me was an intact male, a pregnant female was on the premises. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #90
That seems the one pattern that is repeated. DirkGently Jun 2014 #95
Your posts upthread are outstanding. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #100
Thanks. Rather avoid protracted arguments, but DirkGently Jun 2014 #109
Your willingness to speak up makes me want to do the same. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #117
How do you know that's a pit bull? XemaSab Jun 2014 #126
Bless you!!! Your post restores my faith in mankind. n/t adigal Jun 2014 #153
And I invite you to sit down with the son of a family friend of ours joeglow3 Jun 2014 #210
Ugh....I don't honestly know what to say to that De Leonist Jun 2014 #215
That is a point pit bull supporters try to use joeglow3 Jun 2014 #216
I don't deny that..... De Leonist Jun 2014 #219
Do you have a link to the claim that most pit bulls are automatically put down? pnwmom Jun 2014 #82
A friend had 2 mixed breed dogs of different physical compositions. Guess which one bit, was deemed uppityperson Jun 2014 #86
I have rescued hundreds of pitbulls and the only dog that ever bit one of my kids adigal Jun 2014 #151
These threads always end the same way War Horse Jun 2014 #93
They certainly are High Maintainance...... De Leonist Jun 2014 #181
I suspect you are right War Horse Jun 2014 #191
No one, child or adult, needs an assault dog. nt Llewlladdwr Jun 2014 #94
Are you serious ? De Leonist Jun 2014 #200
I've done a 180 on pitbulls... WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #103
You are a wonderful person! etherealtruth Jun 2014 #112
Is that sarcasm? WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #115
I have a pitbull rescue etherealtruth Jun 2014 #144
"Only a punk would hurt a cat or dog." WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #201
Thanks etherealtruth Jun 2014 #207
You are one of those rare people that make me think there is still hope for the human species. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #116
Well, balls, I think I should quit posting for the day on that note. WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #119
The injuries inflicted upon me by animals pale in comparison to the damage done by humans. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #122
I'll leave you with one more before I turn in for the night... WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #124
A local guy here in Dallas... malokvale77 Jun 2014 #104
To the people who want to ban Pit Bulls: How would that work, exactly? beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #113
My family is dogsitting a pitbull for a friend, and he's one of the sweetest dogs I've met killbotfactory Jun 2014 #125
in our local shelter, 50 of 60 available dogs are pitbull mixes "surrendered by owner" kwassa Jun 2014 #129
Maybe you should ask the owners. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have a dog. baldguy Jun 2014 #131
The dogs are not victims. kwassa Jun 2014 #132
Shelter dogs are indeed victims. beam me up scottie Jun 2014 #139
It is one hell of coincidence, then, that all these dogs given up are pit bull mixes ...... kwassa Jun 2014 #192
They got them for a fashion accessory. roody Jun 2014 #146
Because of ignorance like seen on this thread and landlords who are idiots adigal Jun 2014 #152
Because bad owners seek them out to begin with? DirkGently Jun 2014 #184
Whatever. Not a dog I will get for my 7-year-old. kwassa Jun 2014 #193
Do you want to explain the "real" reason? DirkGently Jun 2014 #197
I don't know what the problem with these dogs is. kwassa Jun 2014 #204
"These dogs" = "those people." Judging by looks is just bigotry. DirkGently Jun 2014 #208
Again, +++++++++++ for your well stated civil posts. uppityperson Jun 2014 #213
Some of the latest victims theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #140
Prove that those dogs were pits! XemaSab Jun 2014 #143
Says someone with an OP quoting Clifton. flvegan Jun 2014 #217
Why do you like pit bulls? XemaSab Jun 2014 #218
Why do you hate them? flvegan Jun 2014 #220
The hits just keep on comin' theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #172
ANYONE Jenoch Jun 2014 #141
As a child I was attacked by a pitbull Separation Jun 2014 #142
In Georgia, they are not allowed to be adopted, only rescued adigal Jun 2014 #148
No they don't. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #169
I have big dogs gwheezie Jun 2014 #178
The hell they do. Owl Jun 2014 #202
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Children Need Pit Bulls: ...»Reply #223