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In reply to the discussion: NASA Tests "Impossible" Perpetual Motion Drive; Says it Works [View all]struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)75. (1) There is no adequate theory
"... the mysterious drive actually worked even when they modified it in such a way it shouldnt have produced any thrust ..."
This means nobody is sure that they are measuring
(2) The tiny forces were measured with a torsion balance
"... The torsion balance they used to test the thrust was sensitive enough to detect a thrust of less than ten micronewtons, but the drive actually produced 30 to 50 micronewtons ..."
So it looks like a measurement of an attraction or a repulsion, not a measurement of thrust
(3) The results don't accord with classical physics
... "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon ..." ...
This suggests something like the Casimir effect may be involved
(4) So we've got a device that generates some very tiny force. The inventor has some theory about how the force is produced, but the inventor's theory is wrong because a modified device produces a tiny force even when the inventor's theory says it won't. The device doesn't seem to be explicable on the basis of classical physics, so known or unknown quantum effects are involved. The inventor propose using the device to propel spacecraft. But before one rushes to build such craft, it would most appropriate to attempt to understand the actual physics involved in the device. The Casimir effect, for exactly, operates only at very short distances and seems unlikely to produce any usable thrust. Moreover, as a general rule, quantum effects tend to merge into classical physics in large systems, so one often can't expect quantum effects at small scales to be reproducible at larger scales
This means nobody is sure that they are measuring
(2) The tiny forces were measured with a torsion balance
"... The torsion balance they used to test the thrust was sensitive enough to detect a thrust of less than ten micronewtons, but the drive actually produced 30 to 50 micronewtons ..."
So it looks like a measurement of an attraction or a repulsion, not a measurement of thrust
(3) The results don't accord with classical physics
... "Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon ..." ...
This suggests something like the Casimir effect may be involved
(4) So we've got a device that generates some very tiny force. The inventor has some theory about how the force is produced, but the inventor's theory is wrong because a modified device produces a tiny force even when the inventor's theory says it won't. The device doesn't seem to be explicable on the basis of classical physics, so known or unknown quantum effects are involved. The inventor propose using the device to propel spacecraft. But before one rushes to build such craft, it would most appropriate to attempt to understand the actual physics involved in the device. The Casimir effect, for exactly, operates only at very short distances and seems unlikely to produce any usable thrust. Moreover, as a general rule, quantum effects tend to merge into classical physics in large systems, so one often can't expect quantum effects at small scales to be reproducible at larger scales
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I'm thinking that Big Oil will thwart this somehow because of its potential for
kelliekat44
Aug 2014
#55
the term "woo" is such silly BS -- it truly diminishes some important groundbreaking work
nashville_brook
Aug 2014
#2
Mmmm. Not quite. Electricity is not the fuel. Satellites are not the only anticipated application.
DirkGently
Aug 2014
#8
Could it be possible that other "particles" could be used for electricity generation as they're
Uncle Joe
Aug 2014
#77
Fuel in this case is simply propellent, unlike in chemical rocket engines, which are...
Humanist_Activist
Aug 2014
#69
It kind of is if quantum fluctuation particles drive the engine and are created perpetually .
Kablooie
Aug 2014
#14
Yeah, but it still takes energy (electricity) to accelerate the reaction mass..
sir pball
Aug 2014
#74
Correct me if I'm wrong, but these particles are pretty much everywhere in the universe.
backscatter712
Aug 2014
#58
God-fucking-dammit, it is NOT woo coming true, and its not a perpetual motion machine...
Humanist_Activist
Aug 2014
#68
Bullshit, if someone was claiming the quantum consciousness was driving the device...
Humanist_Activist
Aug 2014
#82
Nope. "“Alright!” they said. “We’ll test your stupid drive that won’t work.”
DirkGently
Aug 2014
#83
We've known of this phenomenon for a long time as zero-point energy or the Casimir effect
derby378
Aug 2014
#70
The Casimir effect is not considered woo, but some of the claims associated with it are
derby378
Aug 2014
#90
The only people I've ever heard talk about the Casimir effect are woo-peddlers
Hugabear
Aug 2014
#99
With a flux capacitor, powered by cold fusion, the possibilities are limitless (nt)
Nye Bevan
Aug 2014
#106