Sometimes you need a leap. Rigid skeptics hate that. (Reply #86)

In the discussion thread: NASA Tests "Impossible" Perpetual Motion Drive; Says it Works [View all]

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 12:30 PM

DirkGently (12,151 posts)

86. Sometimes you need a leap. Rigid skeptics hate that.

It's one thing to insist on objective testing to explore / prove a new idea.

It's entirely another to savage new ideas as being irrational idiocy until a braver person investigates something dubious for you and actually delivers new knowledge.

New ideas should not be regarded as irrational bullshit to be shouted down and derided by cowardly skeptics who pretend they know everything and then simply change their tune after better minds have proven them wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

108 replies	Author	Time	Post
NASA Tests "Impossible" Perpetual Motion Drive; Says it Works [View all]	DirkGently	Aug 2014	OP
Woo is woo until	enlightenment	Aug 2014	#1
Isn't that how science should work? nt	Logical	Aug 2014	#11
Of course.	enlightenment	Aug 2014	#12
It's like Dara O'Briain's comment about "natural medicine"	backscatter712	Aug 2014	#59
Sometimes you need a leap. Rigid skeptics hate that.	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#86
Scientific Method. n-t	Logical	Aug 2014	#87
Still Often Requires a Dubious Leap. n/t	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#88
I'm thinking that Big Oil will thwart this somehow because of its potential for	kelliekat44	Aug 2014	#55
I don't think you are.	enlightenment	Aug 2014	#57
I guarantee you the people working on this are scientists.	Marr	Aug 2014	#100
I think you responded to the wrong person, Marr!	enlightenment	Aug 2014	#103
the term "woo" is such silly BS -- it truly diminishes some important groundbreaking work	nashville_brook	Aug 2014	#2
Not at all......	Logical	Aug 2014	#17
Oh for gawd's sake.	crim son	Aug 2014	#27
"Woo" is about the most unscientific term you can use	aint_no_life_nowhere	Aug 2014	#89
exactly	G_j	Aug 2014	#95
Kicked and recommended.	Uncle Joe	Aug 2014	#3
I think this is the worst-written science article I've seen.	jeff47	Aug 2014	#4
Mmmm. Not quite. Electricity is not the fuel. Satellites are not the only anticipated application.	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#8
The effect is caused by microwaves, generated electrically.	jeff47	Aug 2014	#20
It has wider application than that ...	The Traveler	Aug 2014	#24
Usually when people say "long distance spaceflight" in normal media	jeff47	Aug 2014	#26
Actually, low thrust is fine for long distances.	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#30
Low thrust doesn't get you there fast enough if you have humans on board.	jeff47	Aug 2014	#32
Not necessarily	jberryhill	Aug 2014	#101
Could it be possible that other "particles" could be used for electricity generation as they're	Uncle Joe	Aug 2014	#77
No. Perpetual motion machines are impossible.	jeff47	Aug 2014	#78
Except that if the article is correct, the particles appear from 'nowhere'.	Sirveri	Aug 2014	#96
No.	jeff47	Aug 2014	#97
Fuel in this case is simply propellent, unlike in chemical rocket engines, which are...	Humanist_Activist	Aug 2014	#69
Einstein was nuts until the eclipse observations proved	hifiguy	Aug 2014	#5
I can't believe that anyone seriously thought Einstein was nuts.	Orrex	Aug 2014	#34
True, but his theories were thought to be either	hifiguy	Aug 2014	#36
Okay, I can go with that.	Orrex	Aug 2014	#37
"They laughed at the Wright Brothers."	Frank Cannon	Aug 2014	#56
Stop rewriting the history of Einstein	mathematic	Aug 2014	#80
K&R	Go Vols	Aug 2014	#6
It's not perpetual motion at all. Energy is supplied to	MineralMan	Aug 2014	#7
It kind of is if quantum fluctuation particles drive the engine and are created perpetually .	Kablooie	Aug 2014	#14
Still, energy is input into the system.	MineralMan	Aug 2014	#15
THANK You.	Treant	Aug 2014	#19
Perpetual motion. Not "perpetual energy."	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#35
Same difference	Treant	Aug 2014	#38
I know the term of art "perpetual motion" requires zero energy input.	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#45
Given that	Treant	Aug 2014	#50
It's a thruster that requires no reaction mass.	backscatter712	Aug 2014	#60
Yeah, but it still takes energy (electricity) to accelerate the reaction mass..	sir pball	Aug 2014	#74
Yes, but, 1000 J = 1000 N * M.	joshcryer	Aug 2014	#79
Call me a skeptic.	hunter	Aug 2014	#9
It does come off a bit like "something from nothing."	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#16
The Wonders That Await	colsohlibgal	Aug 2014	#10
Quantum Vacuum Plasma Thruster	Bosonic	Aug 2014	#13
I'm still holding on for the infinite improbability drive..	IDemo	Aug 2014	#18
It should be any moment	sarisataka	Aug 2014	#21
That's already been perfected	jmowreader	Aug 2014	#22
You are confusing it with	sarisataka	Aug 2014	#28
would you like a cup of something	awoke_in_2003	Aug 2014	#49
This all sounds vaguely familiar	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#53
when you pass through doors..	awoke_in_2003	Aug 2014	#54
Here I am, brain the size of a planet,	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#61
K&R	DeSwiss	Aug 2014	#23
''Disobedience was man's Original Virtue.'''	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#63
Really wish people wouldn't abuse the term "woo"	DRoseDARs	Aug 2014	#25
the case to use "woo" here is pretty legit, I think	paulkienitz	Aug 2014	#33
And you'd be wrong to think that.	DRoseDARs	Aug 2014	#51
Sci-Fi has had repulsive tech for decades....	Spitfire of ATJ	Aug 2014	#29
I'll put $50 on it coming to nothing in the end	paulkienitz	Aug 2014	#31
Ditto.	Treant	Aug 2014	#39
I was thinking more that it would come to nothing in the sense	paulkienitz	Aug 2014	#43
Frankly, I'm unimpressed by a lot of NASA bleeding-edge "science"	caraher	Aug 2014	#40
If space is a vacuum (relative to human existence, and	Eleanors38	Aug 2014	#42
one would hope that they allowed for photon momentum	paulkienitz	Aug 2014	#44
Their paper is pretty low on specifics	caraher	Aug 2014	#47
XKCD took up this topic today, and guess what:	paulkienitz	Aug 2014	#104
I just saw that xkcd	caraher	Aug 2014	#105
if 20KW is going in, it must come out somewhere	paulkienitz	Aug 2014	#107
True	caraher	Aug 2014	#108
Awesome!	silverweb	Aug 2014	#41
Hmm...and what happens to the spaceship and crew that enter parts of the void	Rex	Aug 2014	#46
Well it also runs on diesel. Or banana peels and coffee grounds, obviously.	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#48
Good I have an endless supply of material then.	Rex	Aug 2014	#52
blahahaaahahaa!	nashville_brook	Aug 2014	#62
Correct me if I'm wrong, but these particles are pretty much everywhere in the universe.	backscatter712	Aug 2014	#58
As far as we know, we haven't actually mapped out a lot of space yet.	Rex	Aug 2014	#81
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.	nashville_brook	Aug 2014	#64
You still need to generate the electricity to run the reactor	Motown_Johnny	Aug 2014	#65
If any of that is true, such technology would resemble that formerly	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#66
I guess it depends on how you define "magic".	Motown_Johnny	Aug 2014	#67
God-fucking-dammit, it is NOT woo coming true, and its not a perpetual motion machine...	Humanist_Activist	Aug 2014	#68
It has most certainly been categorized as "woo" by many people.	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#71
Bullshit, if someone was claiming the quantum consciousness was driving the device...	Humanist_Activist	Aug 2014	#82
Nope. "“Alright!” they said. “We’ll test your stupid drive that won’t work.”	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#83
I have little doubt that the people working on it are "mirthless empiricists".	Marr	Aug 2014	#102
We've known of this phenomenon for a long time as zero-point energy or the Casimir effect	derby378	Aug 2014	#70
Has it ever been demonstrated in a practical environment?	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#72
I believe it has, on a very small scale	derby378	Aug 2014	#73
Skeptics generally call the Casimir effect "woo" do they not?	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#85
The Casimir effect is not considered woo, but some of the claims associated with it are	derby378	Aug 2014	#90
Namely "useable energy," right. So wouldn't this be that?	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#91
It depends on the specific claim	derby378	Aug 2014	#92
The only people I've ever heard talk about the Casimir effect are woo-peddlers	Hugabear	Aug 2014	#99
(1) There is no adequate theory	struggle4progress	Aug 2014	#75
Precisely why this story lies on the boundary of what skeptics call "woo."	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#84
Not perpetual motion	intaglio	Aug 2014	#76
It may be woo after all.	backscatter712	Aug 2014	#93
Skepticism. Not arch contempt for anything unlikely or unusual.	DirkGently	Aug 2014	#94
This universe likes to do things that pisses off scientists.	Rex	Aug 2014	#98
With a flux capacitor, powered by cold fusion, the possibilities are limitless (nt)	Nye Bevan	Aug 2014	#106

Edit History

Please login to view edit histories.