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Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
11. I would have a hard time with that.
Sun Aug 17, 2014, 09:54 AM
Aug 2014

It isn't all or nothing. It is a sequence of events, each moment must be viewed by the actions of the participants.

The first shot according to witnesses was when Michael Brown was leaning into the window. If he was being pulled, or pushed out is a debatable point. But the argument could be made that the first shot was the officer fearing for his life. I would not be happy with that, but using the standards of the day as I outlined in this post, I would be unable to argue that wasn't justified. Let me make the point, I don't like guns, and I don't like them to be used. But I can't arbitrarily create a new standard after the fact, I have to use the standards that are in place at the time of the event.

Michael Brown began to run according to witnesses. Now, the justification there is that the suspect had attacked a police officer. That is a felony, and at that point Michael Brown was a fleeing felon. OK, I don't like it, but I would grudgingly admit that was reasonable, if it stopped there.

Because at that point, it ceased to be justified. At that point it became murder. It could no longer be argued that Michael Brown was attacking police, he was unarmed, and at a distance from the officer. It could not be argued that he was fleeing, because he had stopped and turned and most importantly, raised his hands in surrender.

Now, here is where those standards I mentioned above come in. Because at this point Police Officer Darren Wilson committed murder. At this point he continued firing even when Michael Brown fell to the ground. At this point nothing that Michael Brown could be accused of could justify the firing of the weapon. Michael Brown could be number one on the ten most wanted list, and it still would be murder once he raised his hands.

What should have happened is that Police Officer Darren Wilson ceased fire, and had Michael Brown get on the ground. Then if he felt safe he could handcuff Michael Brown, or he could call for assistance and get someone else to secure him. At that point, Michael Brown was in custody even if he had no handcuffs on, because he had surrendered. Another officer was close by, and could have been there in a minute, or two. Michael Brown and Police Officer Darren Wilson should be alive today, their injuries treated by the hospital, and the question lain before the court as to what punishment if any was warranted.

Instead, Michael Brown is dead. Murdered by Police Officer Darren Wilson, who executed Michael Brown while he was surrendering.

I agree without reservation that it was a murder. But arguing that none of the shots were justified doesn't do it. You have to look at each shot individually. Because each shot was an individual action. Police Officer Darren Wilson when he fired that second shot was in a mindframe that he was going to keep pulling the trigger until Michael Brown was no longer moving. That is why it should be Murder in the First Degree. Because when he started to shoot, he was doing so with the intent to kill.

But I don't think we'll see Police Officer Darren Wilson charged by the County, or the State. I think that the DA will go in and tell the Grand Jury that Michael Brown was a bad man who got what he deserved. Then the DA will hold his hands up in impotence and say he did his job and there's nothing that can be done now, the Grand Jury has spoken.

We will know when all the facts are in seveneyes Aug 2014 #1
No, ultimately, a jury will determine pintobean Aug 2014 #3
I think the local PD is deliberately screwing up this case CanonRay Aug 2014 #12
What have they done pintobean Aug 2014 #16
Failure to interview witnesses in a timely manner CanonRay Aug 2014 #19
Release of the video was mandated by law. pintobean Aug 2014 #21
There were no FOI requests for the robbery video. SwankyXomb Aug 2014 #33
Bullshit pintobean Aug 2014 #34
Have you ever managed FOI requests? Lee-Lee Aug 2014 #35
It can be argued that the first two shots were justified Savannahmann Aug 2014 #2
I don't beleive LEO's statement on the 1st 2 shots - I beleive the eyewitness FreakinDJ Aug 2014 #5
I would have a hard time with that. Savannahmann Aug 2014 #11
Excellent analysis Danascot Aug 2014 #23
That could be. Although, I want to know more about the first few seconds before saying for sure Hoyt Aug 2014 #32
As the Rude Pundit put it, it wouldn't matter if VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #20
How does one justify the second shot if he was fleeing? Hippo_Tron Aug 2014 #22
For police there are two arguments that are reasonably accepted. Savannahmann Aug 2014 #27
I get that people accept the use of force to catch fleeing felons, but not deadly force Hippo_Tron Aug 2014 #44
I agree but would state it even stronger rock Aug 2014 #31
Even if it was legal for the first round or two Gore1FL Aug 2014 #4
I hope the autopsy can prove the fact that Brown had his hands up when shot. FarPoint Aug 2014 #8
I can already hear the defense madville Aug 2014 #6
Continued shooting - even when the victim had his hands up FreakinDJ Aug 2014 #9
Well...the Ferguson PD and all of it's good old boys are doing their damdest to make it fit. FarPoint Aug 2014 #7
No avebury Aug 2014 #10
I'm sure the word is getting around out there. This was a bad surrender. Loudly Aug 2014 #13
This is the dumbest post I've read on DU pintobean Aug 2014 #17
I'm not surprised heaven05 Aug 2014 #26
SMH. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #37
I rates in my top 10. I am hoping the poster just forgot the sarcasm tag Rex Aug 2014 #40
With sincerity TransitJohn Aug 2014 #18
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you felt the sarcasm tag wasn't necessary Hippo_Tron Aug 2014 #24
right heaven05 Aug 2014 #25
"you look like King fucking Kong ready to rumble some more." Utter Bullshit. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #36
You look like King Kong ready to rumble? After being shot twice in the back Rex Aug 2014 #39
Historically, racists have compared African American men to apes, like King Kong... NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #41
Are they still here? Rex Aug 2014 #42
If the autopsy supported the officer's version of events, I believe we would have seen it by now. wildeyed Aug 2014 #14
IMO after the second shot there is nothing legal about the whole situation. His hands were up and jwirr Aug 2014 #15
The big issue i see lancer78 Aug 2014 #28
Jerome Ersland was a pharmacist in Oklahoma City CBGLuthier Aug 2014 #29
No, according to the three witnesses who have come forward publicly. BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #30
+1 (nt) NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #38
Legal or not, it was definitely immoral. nt Live and Learn Aug 2014 #43
Is this a serious question? philosslayer Aug 2014 #45
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