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In reply to the discussion: The difference between Guns and knives. And chainsaws. And baseball bats. [View all]Orrex
(63,199 posts)26. That's a weak argument by equivocation
Alcohol has no useful primary purpose yet it leads to far more crime, murder, disease, violence, abuse and injury. Yet, those who supposedly want what is best for society seem surprisingly reluctant to discuss employing their intentions towards guns with the same zeal towards alcohol.
Please provide hard statistics on the number of deaths resulting from one person using alcohol against another. They do exist, I agree, but they certainly don't come anywhere near the number of firearm deaths annually, and unless you can document otherwise, then your comparison is faulty.
Further, it is unreasonable to claim that "alcohol has no useful primary purpose," because that's a judgment based on your values. Alcohol is useful as a complement to meals and as a component of social interaction--these are its primary intended purposes, in fact, as opposed to the primary intended purposes of firearms. Yes, alcohol abuse is certainly a problem, but if you want to pretend some equivalence between the lethality of alcohol and the lethality of firearms, then you need to crunch the numbers. I suspect that the number of fatally discharged firearms will vastly outnumber the alcoholic drinks fatally consumed in a given period.
Just to pick two easy numbers for comparison, the CDC reports 32,351 firearm deaths in 2011, while MADD shows 9,865 drunk driving fatalities in that same year. If you actually "want what is best for society," then you can begin by accounting for this 3:1 discrepancy.
Also, you're equivocating when you place "leads to death" on the same footing as "directly causes death." You need to justify that asserted equilvalence before you can base a credible argument on it.
In short, the comparison between alcohol-related deaths and firearm-related deaths is untenable and should be abandoned.
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The difference between Guns and knives. And chainsaws. And baseball bats. [View all]
Mister Nightowl
Oct 2014
OP
Death for the sake of feeding the family is an acceptable purpose and sometimes necessary purpose.
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#5
Sorry, but that's s crock. The fallacies are so obvious, I won't bother to point them out.
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#9
The right to self-defense exists even if the NRA never existed. The 2 are wholly separate.
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#10
Target shooting, trap and skeet, hunting and self defense are all legitimate uses of firearms
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#14
I think the main differences are DISTANCE, both spatially and emotionally, and TARGET SIZE.
WinkyDink
Oct 2014
#19
There is no such animal as a "self-defense firearm." It is a firearm, period.
WinkyDink
Oct 2014
#22
Sometimes self-defense involves killing someone; other times, the firearm acts as a deterrent.
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#24
Actually, I gotta agree with the others here. Plenty of people still do.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
Oct 2014
#34
The police in Utah swarmed a black man open carrying a Japanese styled sword
Half-Century Man
Oct 2014
#39
The vast majority of deaths by firearm are not justified though. Something like
MillennialDem
Oct 2014
#41
What you described is technically a flail. A morning star is a spiked club or mace :p
MillennialDem
Oct 2014
#46
That last rifle is the most popular competive target shooting rifle in America. Nt
hack89
Oct 2014
#49
Um... JUSTIFIABLE homicide by firearm, per year, for the whole US (see links)
MillennialDem
Oct 2014
#51
I don't know from technical, but what he described sounded like what
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
Oct 2014
#54
The point of the OP (and me) is that guns are not tools. They are only weapons because their only
MillennialDem
Oct 2014
#70
Guns are, first and foremost, weapons and a good weapon is effective at killing.
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#72
"Please provide hard statistics on the number of deaths resulting from one person using alcohol"
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#74
I don't petition for things to be banned. That would be the responsibility of those who claim
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#77
See Post 72. I don't consider the fact that firearms are weapons to be important.
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#83
Do you seriously believe that violent criminals practice shooting on the range?
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#92
Read through the whole sub-thread. I was just pointing out vacuous blather for what it is.
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#94
This isn't Australia. There are maybe a dozen states where more gun control has political support
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#100
Sure! It counts for the intent of the object's owner, but not for the object's intent by design.
Orrex
Oct 2014
#102
So called bushmeat is likely as healthy or healthier than what people but at stories
aikoaiko
Oct 2014
#106
I hadn't considered shotgun slugs for big game, but they would not be my first choice
badtoworse
Oct 2014
#118
"We won't let kids under 21 vote or drink alcohol, but we are perfectly OK with them toting weapons"
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#119
"attempt to stroll down the main street in your town...You won't make it two blocks."
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#121