General Discussion

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)

247. Please explain how I am a hypocrite.

Reply to Logical (Reply #243)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 06:08 PM

Mar 2015

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

462 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I never, ever thought I'd see the day [View all] MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 OP

Because there isn't marym625 Mar 2015 #1

WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam Wars were all declared under Democratic presidents :( BP2 Mar 2015 #137

Why was that? SCVDem Mar 2015 #162

No, Republican policy failures did not cause any one of those wars. former9thward Mar 2015 #192

Vietnam certainly was. hifiguy Mar 2015 #216

The Dulles brothers are singularly obnoxious, but one can also point a finger at KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #345

Good post, thank you. The only thing we can hope for is that the US is going through a very sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #420

World Wars I and II were.......... mrmpa Mar 2015 #171

Which means what? former9thward Mar 2015 #190

Oh yes they were wars........ mrmpa Mar 2015 #217

The Chinese sent 700,000 troops into the war. former9thward Mar 2015 #226

My Dad told me......... mrmpa Mar 2015 #231

Yes, an almost forgotten war. former9thward Mar 2015 #267

+1 BeanMusical Mar 2015 #375

Good point. Major Hogwash Mar 2015 #337

The UN didn't exist at the start of either World War. Ken Burch Mar 2015 #389

Read that again, Ken. Major Hogwash Mar 2015 #414

Here's the way you phrased it: Ken Burch Mar 2015 #421

I would have supported the first three wars in a NY minute DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #279

After Pearl Harbor, FDR didn't have a lot of choice in asking Congress for a declaration of war dflprincess Mar 2015 #322

Technical note: Eisenhower sent the first U.S. military advisors to Vietnam in the 50s, following KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #343

Bingo! The first US deaths in Vietnam were under Eisenhower. B Calm Mar 2015 #388

Not to be unduly persnickety, but the very first U.S. death in Viet Nam came KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #401

Ho Chi Minh, who had once washed dishes on Staten Island, Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #413

In '45, when he addressed the masses in Hanoi following the Viet Minh's KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #435

I saw Hue in March 1968, less than 2 months after Tet. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #438

I think you meant to write "I saw Hue in March 1968 . . . ," based on KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #440

Thanks. Yes, I meant Hue. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #441

Were they based on lies put forth by the administration? cui bono Mar 2015 #378

WWII marym625 Mar 2015 #387

Didn't you get the pragmatic message? We have to kiss 1% ass to get campaign funding. L0oniX Mar 2015 #332

I got the message marym625 Mar 2015 #334

"Money doesn't talk it screams", B.Dylan drynberg Mar 2015 #381

my absolute favorite song. ever. marym625 Mar 2015 #385

It's not a gray area for me. LWolf Mar 2015 #2

DU Rec^ RiverLover Mar 2015 #9

I feel like we're in some marym625 Mar 2015 #19

"neo-liberal policies": Did I miss the invention of this phrase during my absence? Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #27

I apparently missed your absence, lol. LWolf Mar 2015 #63

neo-liberalism started 85 years ago? I love oxymorons. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #68

why the snark? the other poster is correct and i see no point to your posts ND-Dem Mar 2015 #83

Why the snark? Did you read what you posted? Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #143

if that is your criticism, it would have been clearer to address it directly rather than question ND-Dem Mar 2015 #150

For the love of God Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #155

You're exceptionally abrasive. Maedhros Mar 2015 #326

Why stop now? You're doing such a good job of not being "divisive". cui bono Mar 2015 #380

What do you mean by 'separating themselves' it's a MAJORITY of DUers not a 'certain segment' sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #444

A lot of DUers spend a lot of time trying to categorize others as impure. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #445

It's been around for decades. Marr Mar 2015 #126

"until you have at least some vague idea of what it is that you're mocking." Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #131

Just use 'Third Way', it's more 'modern'. And if you need any information on who they are and sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #422

Did you miss much? Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #79

No. LWolf Mar 2015 #128

Yeah, shit. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #132

I'd like to be on that list. BrotherIvan Mar 2015 #177

I'm not sure you understand how it works. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #180

How your ignore works? BrotherIvan Mar 2015 #219

.. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #228

I'd be honored. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #210

you've never heard of the term neo liberal before? Doctor_J Mar 2015 #207

+100 these days, "progressive" = support for individual rights (gay/black/hispanic/women) and ND-Dem Mar 2015 #74

I suspect that PoC, women, and the LGBT community ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #398

There is no income inequality juggernaut. And few people at DU talk about class in the economic ND-Dem Mar 2015 #406

...^ that 840high Mar 2015 #106

But they -DO- support those issues... nonsupport is "limited" and ALWAYS pragmatic HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #138

Yep. nt LWolf Mar 2015 #152

Walter Benn Michaels has their number: friendly_iconoclast Mar 2015 #318

That's an interesting read...I'm not trained in economics so HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #328

I used to live in Wellesley, Massachusetts, a wealthy town friendly_iconoclast Mar 2015 #335

Checking in here from northern Newton MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #350

+1 You nailed it. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #392

I am do not excuse it but I am capable of forgiving that vote. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #3

And this? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #5

I am not going to cry for the man. He was a dictator. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #6

Do you know what Libya's turned into since his death? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #10

The people on the ground were rebbelling and we helped them. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #15

*which* people on the ground? *why* was the country falling apart? we certainly did a ND-Dem Mar 2015 #86

Yes we had a hand in it but the locaks were rising up against their goverment. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #96

blanket statement about "the locals" doesn't = "fact" ND-Dem Mar 2015 #211

That is fair. We don't exactly know who they all were. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #214

Which 'people on the ground'? The ones who have been terrorizing civilians now for several years? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #139

Who are the war criminals here? hrmjustin Mar 2015 #148

Yes, who are they? How many civilians were killed by NATO bombs in Libya? Do you know? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #159

I am asking you here, who are the war criminals? hrmjustin Mar 2015 #161

I am asking YOU who the protesters were? You are supporting what happened in Libya, but don't sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #172

I never claimed to support anything. I said I was not going to cry over it. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #174

I'll do the crying then for the innocent who are being murdered and tortured. You don't have to. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #178

My opinion doesn't have to matter to you but it does for me. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #179

Our Western opinions of African nations, yours or mine, do not matter to African nations. Which was sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #184

I am all for them making their own choices. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #185

It's really none of our business. We have no rights in Africa, we are not in a position to 'allow sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #276

How about the Iraqi people? think Mar 2015 #14

The Iraqi people will suffer from that horrible war and that is tragic but I am still voting for hrmjustin Mar 2015 #16

the price was worth it, eh? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #90

Did I say it was? No. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #97

How do you know that already? You don't even know who else is going to be running? cui bono Mar 2015 #382

My mind is made up and if she runs she has my vote. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #400

Hm. I hope you would reconsider having your mind made up already. cui bono Mar 2015 #432

I will listen to the others but my vote is with Hillary. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #433

Funny thing about dictators... MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #42

ok. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #43

So you are saying that getting rid of Saddam was worth the betrayal of Americans rhett o rick Mar 2015 #73

Where did I say it was a good idea to get rid of Saddam? hrmjustin Mar 2015 #89

"also probably brought on the death of the Great American Middle Class" = indeed ND-Dem Mar 2015 #93

+1000 marym625 Mar 2015 #100

Manny I gave her a pass on her IWR vote. I have always liked her laugh. But that? Autumn Mar 2015 #13

It goes to show us we don't really know them. zeemike Mar 2015 #50

thank u ellennelle Mar 2015 #82

means that she does not belong anywhere near a position of power. Agony Mar 2015 #298

I think it's up to the victims, those who survived, to forgive, not up to people sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #33

I lost my cousin in the war so I have standing to forgive thank you. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #34

I am sorry for the death of your cousin. And even if everyone were to forgive those responsible for sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #85

Thats your opinion and it is principled but I think we do have standing to forgive. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #92

What do you mean when you say you "have standing to forgive"? sammythecat Mar 2015 #291

No. I was making a point to the poster who said only the victims of the war have standing to forgive hrmjustin Mar 2015 #292

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with what you just said. n/t sammythecat Mar 2015 #300

Thanks. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #305

+1 zeemike Mar 2015 #59

I don't see it as a matter of forgiveness. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #84

It is perfectly reasonable to question her vote. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #94

"best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." BumRushDaShow Mar 2015 #390

Certainly. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #410

Of course you will not. nt Logical Mar 2015 #238

No I won't hold it against her. My right. n/t. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #241

And my right to think you are a hypocrite. nt Logical Mar 2015 #243

Please explain how I am a hypocrite. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #247

Like you said "It's my right". nt Logical Mar 2015 #251

Can you back it up or are you just here to call me names? hrmjustin Mar 2015 #252

Well are you going to back it up? hrmjustin Mar 2015 #255

"It my right" is all I heard from you. nt Logical Mar 2015 #286

I always respected your opinion here. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #288

OK, I am wrong here....... Logical Mar 2015 #294

Accepted and I think she will have to answer for her vote. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #297

It is not your right to insult other members BainsBane Mar 2015 #319

+very large number betsuni Mar 2015 #360

Who are 'you people'. I want to know if I am one of them so I can correct that statement IF I am one sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #426

There is no question in my mind that you are a unique individual. BainsBane Mar 2015 #430

Will you forgive an attack on Iran? OnyxCollie Mar 2015 #310

To further your "aside"... it actually says "would *be able to* totally obliterate them, not cui bono Mar 2015 #383

Thanks. OnyxCollie Mar 2015 #408

That's okay. I do resent the fact that you made me defend Hillary though. cui bono Mar 2015 #431

Did you vote for Kerry? leftofcool Mar 2015 #4

Not in the primary. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #11

What about in the general election Andy823 Mar 2015 #142

Of course. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #158

And if one didn't vote for Kerry then they SUPPORTED BUSH! No matter how one voted think Mar 2015 #12

^^^Yes, this!^^^ joshdawg Mar 2015 #25

And if one did vote for Kerry obviously they were hypocrites that supported the war. think Mar 2015 #29

lots of us were against Kerry before we were for him, before we were against him HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #165

Ha ha ha! Major Hogwash Mar 2015 #339

But I -was- a Dean supporter...but now I'm not HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #341

+1 uponit7771 Mar 2015 #213

Is that your argument / rational for voting for HRC? We can do better than rhett o rick Mar 2015 #77

I just can't rec this post enough. Scuba Mar 2015 #7

Let me help out with another K & R L0oniX Mar 2015 #336

It was neither staggering stupidity nor staggering malevolence tularetom Mar 2015 #8

Isn't that the same thing? marym625 Mar 2015 #39

I seriously disagree. HRC is not a coward. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #103

Yeah something did compel her to betray the Democrats tularetom Mar 2015 #122

She sold out. Period. ReRe Mar 2015 #124

Bingo, in three words. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #129

she didn't sell out. she's always been a goldwater girl on the essentials. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #223

I guess I had my... ReRe Mar 2015 #266

No gray here. 99Forever Mar 2015 #17

Anyone that voted for the continued use of cluster bombs in civilian areas Mnpaul Mar 2015 #134

+1,000s (n/t) bread_and_roses Mar 2015 #391

Due to lies from the Bush administration. JaneyVee Mar 2015 #18

Already covered in Manny's OP. woo me with science Mar 2015 #293

About any area is gray when one is openly dedicated to being amoral as SOP. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #20

Wow. That's quite a declaration. "Amoral"? "Sick mentality"? Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #23

you subscribe to 'winning is the only thing' i take it? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #115

You take it wrong. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #229

"It" isn't mine to rein in, I'm just calling them as I seem them. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #206

You're incapable of reining in your emotions? Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #230

What emotion? You haven't seen my personal editorial, that was observation. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #234

I see. So you have declared as FACT that Hillary is amoral and possesses a sick mentality. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #235

Because isn't the worst Democrat... SHRED Mar 2015 #21

No FBaggins Mar 2015 #75

Such a great and new point! No one ever brought this up before. Ever!!! Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #22

seriously? marym625 Mar 2015 #26

"This cannot be brought up enough." No shit! Endlessly, apparently. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #30

Addressing your second point: Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #37

Thank you marym625 Mar 2015 #41

The only Democrat who ever GOT ELECTED president didn't vote for the war tularetom Mar 2015 #135

uh, yeah. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #146

I appears that we now have perpetual war. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #24

Fortunately you are not the arbiter of what is acceptable or not OKNancy Mar 2015 #28

except we all knew that the WMD bullshit marym625 Mar 2015 #45

+1,000,000 roody Mar 2015 #57

wow! that's a whole bunch! marym625 Mar 2015 #62

If we knew it was crap, They® certainly knew it was crap. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #394

Hey, jesus didn't just show up marym625 Mar 2015 #395

I can see what you say is true. Amen. Enthusiast Mar 2015 #396

jesus bless you. and cheese sandwiches for you! marym625 Mar 2015 #397

Actually, each one of us as individuals BubbaFett Mar 2015 #69

LOL - so we aren't decent folk... OKNancy Mar 2015 #72

If you support someone BubbaFett Mar 2015 #81

I have no problem with my decency. Perhaps someone should not sit in judgment OKNancy Mar 2015 #87

There should have been demands made before that vote Mnpaul Mar 2015 #166

LOL, so war is OK if she thinks it was justified at the time! LOL, classic! nt Logical Mar 2015 #240

We all knew it was lies while it was happening. And she had a lot more information than we did. cui bono Mar 2015 #384

And I never thought I'd see the day... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #31

Some things are fundamentally inexcusable BubbaFett Mar 2015 #40

OK, so whatcha gonna do if she's the candidate? Go... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #52

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #56

"The perfect is the enemy of the good." Just remember that should... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #60

well BubbaFett Mar 2015 #61

I think many here don't realize that Mnpaul Mar 2015 #154

that might apply if there were some significant good to point to. but what we get is ND-Dem Mar 2015 #109

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #95

+10,000 Where's the positive movement to inspire people, especially young people, to change ND-Dem Mar 2015 #104

Actually, I rather agree with that hidden post you're replying to... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #218

I agree; the ptb are forced to concede something to their serfs in times of crisis. crisis from ND-Dem Mar 2015 #221

+10,000 to your post, too. Efilroft Sul Mar 2015 #236

Hear! Hear! ReRe Mar 2015 #145

First, let's make sure she's not the candidate. n/t Martin Eden Mar 2015 #290

+1... SidDithers Mar 2015 #51

Of course it was alerted... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #53

Did Manny vote for an International War Crime Atrocity? BubbaFett Mar 2015 #65

Oh, floating around here somewhere is a post explaining that... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #220

Wait... what? Number23 Mar 2015 #270

here... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #373

So no matter what a Dem does - they 840high Mar 2015 #111

Between 100,000 and 500,000 casualties from the Iraq war they signed on to. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #32

Betwen 100,000 and 500,000 BubbaFett Mar 2015 #38

Exactly. Sacrificed for the political ambitions of those who want to "lead" the nation. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #46

Not if you come from decent folk BubbaFett Mar 2015 #48

Yeah, and we must look forward, not backward and all that crap. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #379

Iraq War vote BubbaFett Mar 2015 #35

The "real" Democratic Party became history when those evil genius Republicans changed our world wide wally Mar 2015 #36

I cannot excuse John Doe MyNameGoesHere Mar 2015 #44

Now you know why you were not put in charge of defining,,, Cryptoad Mar 2015 #47

Russ Feingold voted to confirm John Roberts for the Supreme Court OKNancy Mar 2015 #67

Did you support the Iraq War? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #141

no Cryptoad Mar 2015 #167

In which case your judgement was better than some of our elected officials. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #170

Well said LittleBlue Mar 2015 #199

DU's high priest of liberalism has spoken! JoePhilly Mar 2015 #49

+1 n/t Alkene Mar 2015 #54

It showed incredibly poor judgment on a matter of foreign policy to neverforget Mar 2015 #55

It just shows the "Win, win, always play to win" ethos of the careerist plutocrat BubbaFett Mar 2015 #70

Why did Kerry concede so rapidly to Bush? roody Mar 2015 #58

Skull & Bones... He could not refuse. Kip Humphrey Mar 2015 #88

They're ALL fucking multi-millionaires. They have no connection to regular people. Atman Mar 2015 #64

I was alive when there were plenty of people around BubbaFett Mar 2015 #66

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #121

Please allow F. Scott Fitzgerald to explain: KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #362

And a vote for Reagan was a vote for trickle-down economics and screwing AIDs victims. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #71

Equating voting for a Republican president with voting to send America to war based on lies? think Mar 2015 #78

Pretending that being a full tilt Republican starting with Nixon and running past Bush 41 is 'voting Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #191

there's a difference druidity33 Mar 2015 #405

Point made. F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #102

Has she? Reagan was a Supply Side monster, a racist who actively supported aparthied following Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #188

This is a most righteous jeremiad. I think you and I may have had our differences in the KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #363

Apparently some here feel voting for the Iraq war no was is no big deal think Mar 2015 #76

Well, I excuse nothing. I vote in presidential elections MineralMan Mar 2015 #80

Are there any candidates for the WH right now? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #99

There are some apparent candidates, yes. MineralMan Mar 2015 #140

Then your judgement was better than that of those who did support it. Since there are no declared sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #149

I think I can assure you that some who voted for that war MineralMan Mar 2015 #157

And as always, those who voted for that war will not win. So if Dems want to win, they need to find sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #272

Here you go marym625 Mar 2015 #194

Thanks, and I would add Sherrod Brown and Bernie Sanders. Warren too if she wants to run. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #351

no, a few have. no one good but it's starting marym625 Mar 2015 #354

Sorry Manny but we've all been assimilated. It doesn't hurt really. Rex Mar 2015 #91

Anti-war has never really been high on the Democratic Party's list ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #98

Will Pitt's spirited defense of John Kerry's vote for the IWR wyldwolf Mar 2015 #101

Most excellent post aikoaiko Mar 2015 #105

How? Hissyspit Mar 2015 #263

Memories..... msanthrope Mar 2015 #264

I love Will Pitt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #112

Is he a 'progressive Democrat?" wyldwolf Mar 2015 #116

Based on Will's post a few days ago, MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #120

Which proves my point. He held Kerry to different standard. Wonder why? wyldwolf Mar 2015 #125

Or he's evolved on the issue. MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #127

Had no problem with Biden less than 3 years ago. Hmmm... wyldwolf Mar 2015 #130

Did he have a problem with Hillary's vote in 2008? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #144

To clarify my previously post MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #151

You're finding it difficult to reconcile your OP with Will Pitt's words. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #181

Whoa. Let's focus. MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #197

Nope. Just of using a different standard on Clinton... wyldwolf Mar 2015 #205

Then your pants are on fire. MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #208

Is he a 'progressive democrat?' wyldwolf Mar 2015 #227

Your pants are on fire, and MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #232

Your pants are on fire and tell us... wyldwolf Mar 2015 #233

You accused Will Pitt of misogyny MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #237

No I didn't. I said he held Clinton to a different standard than he did three men wyldwolf Mar 2015 #239

So what makes you a 'progressive democrat' and not Will? wyldwolf Mar 2015 #242

I said he is a progressive Democrat MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #246

according to the logic in your OP, Will Pitt isn't a 'progressive democrat" wyldwolf Mar 2015 #250

since most who oppose hrc right now favor Warren, your misogyny claims fail the laugh Doctor_J Mar 2015 #253

Your attempt at smearing to divert the point is typical. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #254

your "point" is to taint all criticism of Hillary by calling all critics anti-woman. I pointed out Doctor_J Mar 2015 #256

Really? You have links to back that charge? No, you don't wyldwolf Mar 2015 #257

errr, Manny has a link about three posts up from here, and one of your posts right in Doctor_J Mar 2015 #311

errr, no he doesn't. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #312

This message was self-deleted by its author wyldwolf Mar 2015 #209

Ok I just read the whole thing, and it didn't strike me as a spirited defense. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #262

yeah, you did miss something wyldwolf Mar 2015 #265

Yeah, I don't agree. Maybe I'm wrong. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #269

Kerry was fooled? Martin Eden Mar 2015 #296

Sorry but that's all bunk. When they signed it, are they saying they trusted Bush not to go to war? rhett o rick Mar 2015 #309

Methinks you gave someone a sad - Jury results Lancero Mar 2015 #331

replying just so I can refer back. nt stevenleser Mar 2015 #462

Feels like ancient history aikoaiko Mar 2015 #107

Ancient history features only dead people. Martin Eden Mar 2015 #301

I shudder to think of how much war we'll get, KMOD Mar 2015 #108

wasn't that what Qadima figured in Lebanon? start a war so the warmongering Likud MisterP Mar 2015 #169

" I never, ever thought I'd see the day..." DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #110

I'll raise my glass to that libodem Mar 2015 #113

Because any Democrat is better than a Republican PedXing Mar 2015 #114

How is a Democrat who votes as a republican better than a republican? Autumn Mar 2015 #153

I'm not sure. PedXing Mar 2015 #386

Is there is no gray area Manny. And no one who contributed to that massive war crime, whether out of sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #117

In 2008 a whole lot of progressves round here were singing praises for John Edwards Tom Rinaldo Mar 2015 #118

+1. I suspect a lot who are saying they were against it and "knew it was a lie," really didn't. Hoyt Mar 2015 #283

Okies I've replied in all three 'never see' threads, so no jury duty for me! Rex Mar 2015 #119

I saw that day, it was July 29th 2004 in Boston, when Democrats named Yes voters John Kerry Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #123

a little quibble with that description... ND-Dem Mar 2015 #136

I did not say he was 'the sole co-sponsor' just that he was what he was, an origninal co-sponsor Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #160

because your version makes it sound like he stood alone as cosponsor. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #163

No it does not. He was the very first Democrat to co-sponsor the Senate version, original co-sponsor Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #173

in his hypocrisy not much different from most politicians. just paid by a different faction. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #175

And yet he was given a pass on the IWR vote twice, once as VP nom and second as candidate Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #182

everyone was getting a pass in those days. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #198

I gave any Democrat who ran against Bush a pass at that time. I would have given the devil Autumn Mar 2015 #204

Well gee Manny, LBJ expanded a bloody war in Viet Nam, yet the social programs and civil rights act still_one Mar 2015 #133

+1 Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #147

Lots of things are gray MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #156

Actually it would have been a third term technically Manny, and we will never know if he would or still_one Mar 2015 #168

i've read that lbj was actually trying to wind down the war & got rat-fucked, but i can't ND-Dem Mar 2015 #176

That would be interesting. No evidence of that was mentioned in "The Fog Of War". Thanks still_one Mar 2015 #200

mcnamara had a vested interest in blaming johnson for all ND-Dem Mar 2015 #201

LBJ couldn't publicly blow the whistle on Nixon b/c, to do so, LBJ would have KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #368

pretending to be morally pure. stonecutter357 Mar 2015 #164

I have seldom seen an idividual get so thoroughly clowned in their own thread as in this one Number23 Mar 2015 #274

The difference between this thread and others by the OP is... wyldwolf Mar 2015 #278

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #281

well put. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #282

Since no one is to be forgiven treestar Mar 2015 #183

Forgiving is fine MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #186

But that of course does not apply to selfishly advocating horrible economic policies in a right wing Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #193

More of your "Warren murdered milions" froth MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #196

Gosh, you put quote marks around and attibute to me something I most certainly never said and Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #203

Clearly, you don't understand all the functions of quotation marks MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #287

In other words, you got nothin' leftofcool Mar 2015 #307

HELL of a point. And that goes for the OP as well as his (current) favorite politician Number23 Mar 2015 #275

He's got too many 'personas' for anyone to actually know who his favorite politicians are. emulatorloo Mar 2015 #304

I want to go on record here to say I think your... one_voice Mar 2015 #325

160 recommendations. MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #353

And that's what's it's all about, yes? zappaman Mar 2015 #359

That's not the *only* thing MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #361

They can't get the recs marym625 Mar 2015 #364

They can't get them up MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #370

Haha! marym625 Mar 2015 #371

we................ sheshe2 Mar 2015 #443

Ain't that the truth! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #442

UGH!!!! again. CONTEXT matters as well. FUCKING IDIOT GEORGEE MADE THAT VOTE POLITICAL! pansypoo53219 Mar 2015 #187

So why did most Congressional Democrats vote "no"? nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #189

probably cause most districts are 'safe'. senators are statewide. pansypoo53219 Mar 2015 #195

Politics 101 wyldwolf Mar 2015 #212

Voting for war instead of losing an election makes a lot of cents.... think Mar 2015 #215

Sacrifice some 18 year old American boys and a bunch of foreigners neverforget Mar 2015 #261

It's horrible but nevertheless true. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #268

Are you okay with that? neverforget Mar 2015 #271

No but it's nevertheless true. Politicians vote the way their constituencies would wyldwolf Mar 2015 #273

Sacrificing thousands of Americans is a small price to pay to win an election. neverforget Mar 2015 #284

Now, why ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #404

Clinton was not up for election that year dflprincess Mar 2015 #333

Because the war was not sanctioned by the UN, preemptive, and based on false claims? think Mar 2015 #202

Because they knew GWB was so full of shit it would tarnish their future careers? Rex Mar 2015 #324

So, they were suckered by Bush into voting for a war that killed hundreds of thousands? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #225

So it is his fault dems had no guts? nt Logical Mar 2015 #244

That VOTE was a GREAT OPPORTIUNITY for DEMOCRATS to show some LEADERSHIP Martin Eden Mar 2015 #303

K&R DeSwiss Mar 2015 #222

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Mar 2015 #224

We always have been. Efilroft Sul Mar 2015 #248

So why are you a 'progressive democrat' and William Pitt isn't? wyldwolf Mar 2015 #245

Why did that Bosnian sniper shoot at Hillary? MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #258

You OP logic says anyone who excuses the IWR vote can't join the 'progressive' club wyldwolf Mar 2015 #260

Is it just me? OilemFirchen Mar 2015 #313

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #314

I hereby declare this thread closed. OilemFirchen Mar 2015 #320

Ha ha ha!!! Major Hogwash Mar 2015 #347

It's a post and hide thing. Post and hide them. Drive them off the board. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #365

You got the alert. NutmegYankee Mar 2015 #409

Thank you NutmegYankee! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #424

This message was self-deleted by its author wyldwolf Mar 2015 #259

This message was self-deleted by its author wyldwolf Mar 2015 #249

An interesting essay on this subject n2doc Mar 2015 #277

It's like "waving the bloody shirt'' turned upside down./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #285

A black mark has no shade of gray. Martin Eden Mar 2015 #302

I forgive you for your constant endeavor to divide and purge. great white snark Mar 2015 #280

Q: You don't buy the party unity argument? Fumesucker Mar 2015 #299

Just A Shameful Time Period colsohlibgal Mar 2015 #289

But...it's Hillary's turn, dammit!!!1! blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #295

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #306

+ a gadzillion leftofcool Mar 2015 #308

I like the part when she said... wyldwolf Mar 2015 #315

I'm shocked that was hidden. betsuni Mar 2015 #316

"It's all true." - that's why it was. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #317

That hide is a shocker, as it goes that one was rather mild. Autumn Mar 2015 #327

Not shocking at all. Hell...I once quoted Caddyshack to Manny and got a hide. msanthrope Mar 2015 #446

I'm more shocked that as a DUer and a "lawyer" you don't know that jurors Autumn Mar 2015 #447

Didn't another DUer contact a Host to complain? Care to share his name? msanthrope Mar 2015 #448

I'm not going off topic for you. Is there a difference in the terms hide and lock? Autumn Mar 2015 #449

So you are upset I conflated the terms, "hide" and "lock?" On the lock, did a DUer privately msanthrope Mar 2015 #450

I'm not upset at all. I simply responded to your post to me. Autumn Mar 2015 #451

I thank you Autumn....for a few things...... msanthrope Mar 2015 #454

As to 3) the letters were posted by the locking host. I have no idea who told you I posted the alert Autumn Mar 2015 #456

I never claimed you posted the letters....but thanks for confirming msanthrope Mar 2015 #457

Hosts do post DU mails involving alerts in the host thread, someone did tell you I posted the alert Autumn Mar 2015 #458

Oh--you posted the original alert, but you didn't post the PM sent from another source who did msanthrope Mar 2015 #460

Yes, so well written MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #349

Thank you ever so for your thoughtful and informative comment. betsuni Mar 2015 #352

You're welcome. MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #356

So if this thread were a movie, betsuni Mar 2015 #372

Of course he did, as usual. leftofcool Mar 2015 #330

What a pathetic, bullshit alert Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #344

Check out the sub thread above you....Nance was not hidden in vain. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #455

Yes Bobbie Jo Mar 2015 #459

I thank you. Did you like how I referred to as a "lawyer?" nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #461

Selma...nt SidDithers Mar 2015 #321

Selma... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #355

Oh I expect there will be a lot more excusing BainsBane Mar 2015 #323

Not from me. [n/t] Maedhros Mar 2015 #329

Did you vote for Kerry in 2004? BainsBane Mar 2015 #340

For the record: Yes, and Yes (for Wyden and Merkley) Maedhros Mar 2015 #374

Of course you don't owe me an explanation BainsBane Mar 2015 #429

Maybe people have realized that their vote for Kerry may have compromised their ideals. Maedhros Mar 2015 #436

And she will leftofcool Mar 2015 #342

I expect so BainsBane Mar 2015 #348

Voting for military action against ISIS wouldn't be comparable to the AUMF in Iraq. Marr Mar 2015 #358

It starts already BainsBane Mar 2015 #366

I'm not sure that logic should be your go-to weapon in this battle. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #369

This might piss off all the "right" people. L0oniX Mar 2015 #338

+1 marym625 Mar 2015 #376

+2 BeanMusical Mar 2015 #377

Why do you want to piss off all the "right" people? stonecutter357 Mar 2015 #393

You're welcome to cozy up to the oligarchy to win elections... L0oniX Mar 2015 #407

You are so pure. stonecutter357 Mar 2015 #411

+3 Octafish Mar 2015 #403

I suspect that Hillary herself regrets that vote whether she will actually say so totodeinhere Mar 2015 #346

We are paying for those votes now. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #357

Fish or chicken? Rex Mar 2015 #367

"Because there's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush" greenman3610 Mar 2015 #399

1984 works. Octafish Mar 2015 #402

Yes, how shocking it must be for you, Jeff Rosenzweig Mar 2015 #412

I hear that some duck pintobean Mar 2015 #415

this thread caused two DUers to have posting privileges suspended. m-lekktor Mar 2015 #416

I read some of it early on pintobean Mar 2015 #417

i just happened to look at their profiles when i saw the hides m-lekktor Mar 2015 #418

The primary wars started early this cycle. pintobean Mar 2015 #423

So THAT is what the current meltdown is over! Rex Mar 2015 #425

Hillary supporters are lashing out at her critics! m-lekktor Mar 2015 #427

I dunno...this new attack by center-right wingers smacks of total desperation. Rex Mar 2015 #428

I wonder if their other eight hidden posts had anything to do with it? n/t QC Mar 2015 #437

I'm with you. I actually enjoy watching these types of threads because it shows how people always Township75 Mar 2015 #419

I guess I better rec this thread, otherwise I get a red check mark in crayon by the gatekeeper! Rex Mar 2015 #434

I never, ever thought I'd see the day Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #439

I never, ever thought I'd see the day One of the 99 Mar 2015 #452

Oh, come on Manny! After all, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #453