We should change our election system so we don't need to have this conversation anymore. (Reply #31)

In the discussion thread: This election is a binary event. Calling for Obama's defeat *IS* advocating for Romney's victory. [View all]

Response to scheming daemons (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2012, 11:12 PM

limpyhobbler (8,244 posts)

31. We should change our election system so we don't need to have this conversation anymore.

We expend significant energy on this subject that could be better spent on something else.

If we had a two-round presidential election such as in France this conversation would be meaningless. The top two from the first round go on to the 2nd round.

We would be free to vote Green (or whatever) in the first round and and then for Obama in the second round vs. the Republican.

Other forms of ranked-choice voting or instant-runoff voting are also options.

I had hoped the Democratic leadership would have seen the value in this after what happened in 2000 with Nader.

A lot of people think the whole political system is awash with money and is so broken that the Democrats are not much better than the Republicans on their issues.

So I think it's time to talk about changing the way we vote to allow for our Green friends to vote their conscience without having to worry about throwing the election to the bad guys.

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135 replies	Author	Time	Post
This election is a binary event. Calling for Obama's defeat IS advocating for Romney's victory. [View all]	scheming daemons	Jun 2012	OP
+1,000. K & R.	freshwest	Jun 2012	#1
What is the +1000 for?	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#16
Apparently it would be to a Harvard professor advocating the defeat of a Democrat.	CakeGrrl	Jun 2012	#39
In binary, that's only 8,	tclambert	Jun 2012	#110
He is a tenured Harvard professor	bluestateguy	Jun 2012	#2
That's always true, ever four years	DavidDvorkin	Jun 2012	#3
what a system! nt	tomp	Jun 2012	#112
I wish we had a parliamentary system	DavidDvorkin	Jun 2012	#127
Ah... The Simple Life...	WillyT	Jun 2012	#4
Yeah,	ProSense	Jun 2012	#7
Well... I WILL Be Staying At Home...	WillyT	Jun 2012	#8
Same as you	ProSense	Jun 2012	#10
I flirted briefly with voting 3rd-Party in November. But then I watched one	coalition_unwilling	Jun 2012	#104
It's like fifty shades of gray, or something. nt	OnyxCollie	Jun 2012	#12
Beautiful photography!	kentuck	Jun 2012	#18
You Are Quite Welcome !!! - Here's More:	WillyT	Jun 2012	#19
Bookmarked.	kentuck	Jun 2012	#25
Consider, too, that we see less than 10% of the electromagnetic spectrum.	TahitiNut	Jun 2012	#24
You consistently amaze me with your ability to be obtuse.	MjolnirTime	Jun 2012	#37
You've Been Consistently Amazed Since October ???	WillyT	Jun 2012	#42
Hit the nail right on the head, didn't I?	MjolnirTime	Jun 2012	#61
Actually, WillyT, this has nothing to do with politics, but somehow to call those photos	JDPriestly	Jun 2012	#45
Most Excellent Observation !!!	WillyT	Jun 2012	#54
Informed liberals are going to see	rudycantfail	Jun 2012	#90
Completely, absolutely, 100% wrong.	Zoeisright	Jun 2012	#101
The Democratic leadership is not concerned	rudycantfail	Jun 2012	#114
he's likely to pick centrist judges, imo. nt	tomp	Jun 2012	#116
What a ridiculous statement. How Nader-esque.	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2012	#117
please be careful not to confuse your opinion with fact. just sayin'. nt	tomp	Jun 2012	#115
Sometimes it is simple	treestar	Jun 2012	#108
Yeah. but	ProSense	Jun 2012	#5
That sounds like a logical and rational argument...	kentuck	Jun 2012	#6
The professor should keep his opinions to himself until Pres. Obama is re-elected.	BlueCaliDem	Jun 2012	#13
I resent those, like Unger, with their protected jobs	cally	Jun 2012	#9
Precisely. The people who make these observations are likely doing well.	joshcryer	Jun 2012	#21
Absofreakinloutly	Inkfreak	Jun 2012	#68
+1	JNelson6563	Jun 2012	#77
Cally, I wish I could frame this, or at the very least, recommend it.	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2012	#121
He's not the first Harvard professor to throw a bomb during the waning years.	aikoaiko	Jun 2012	#11
That is true. So it makes me wonder, what was his point?	Honeycombe8	Jun 2012	#14
So what is your objective here? To clarify to the "smart" liberals that they have no	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#15
November you vote for the Democrat	jeff47	Jun 2012	#26
Who are you arguing with? nm	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#32
You. You claim the OP is designed to piss off liberals	jeff47	Jun 2012	#33
And I guess you think that liberals dont get that. nm	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#48
If they did, they'd show up on primary day. Yet they don't show up. (nt)	jeff47	Jun 2012	#49
This is an amusing post. The other day, I read a post from a DUer who claims to be an ardent	Bluenorthwest	Jun 2012	#79
Your anecdote clearly trumps statistics. :sarcasm: (nt)	jeff47	Jun 2012	#83
Actually, primary day is too late. We need a lot of progressives to show up at Democratic Clubs	JDPriestly	Jun 2012	#46
One step at a time	jeff47	Jun 2012	#50
You really need to learn that you don't represent all liberals.	TheWraith	Jun 2012	#28
!!	Number23	Jun 2012	#59
Another gem I wish I could rec!	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2012	#122
it'd only piss you off if it was accurate and hit a nerve... too fucking bad	dionysus	Jun 2012	#36
Sorry. Oversimplification.	FBaggins	Jun 2012	#17
Don't agree	ProSense	Jun 2012	#20
Prosense speaks the basic truth, as does the OP. It's just a fact.	Honeycombe8	Jun 2012	#27
But Unger and those who feel like he does are people we have to deal with.	JDPriestly	Jun 2012	#47
We cannot change Unger's mind. His heart & thoughts are about Brazil; Romney has	Honeycombe8	Jun 2012	#128
I wonder about this	quakerboy	Jun 2012	#132
You move the party in the primaries	jeff47	Jun 2012	#22
and, some imbeciles think throwing the govt to the repukes will result in a great depression which	dionysus	Jun 2012	#40
That's the historical materialist roadmap and it's not been historically accurate.	joshcryer	Jun 2012	#23
Yes, the country is much more left wing now as a result of 2.8 million liberals voting for Nader	TrollBuster9090	Jun 2012	#44
You and Thom Hartmann say this. It all majes sense to me.	chknltl	Jun 2012	#126
Thank you!	TrollBuster9090	Jun 2012	#133
Or, he sees an advantage for his home country, Brazil, if Romney is elected.	pnwmom	Jun 2012	#29
STFU and vote a straight Democratic ballot!	xtraxritical	Jun 2012	#30
We should change our election system so we don't need to have this conversation anymore.	limpyhobbler	Jun 2012	#31
You will never get such a system from the Democrats or Republicans	jeff47	Jun 2012	#34
Yep. You're pretty much stuck with it.	laundry_queen	Jun 2012	#81
thats a fine idea but no one will allow that to happen.	dionysus	Jun 2012	#41
Unfortunately, changing our election system requires actually WINNING elections and assuming power.	TrollBuster9090	Jun 2012	#51
I agree with what you say. nt	laundry_queen	Jun 2012	#82
It should be obvious, but apparently not for some even now.	CakeGrrl	Jun 2012	#35
Heads like Holes	MjolnirTime	Jun 2012	#38
True. Good argument. Any other suggestions in case this does not convince people?	JDPriestly	Jun 2012	#43
Copying what I replied to you in another thread	jeff47	Jun 2012	#52
Great post. Thanks. That's what I am trying to do. And I plan to keep trying.	JDPriestly	Jun 2012	#63
Carl Sagan called "If/Then" an invalid attempt at argument.	Fire Walk With Me	Jun 2012	#53
Save for one thing	DonCoquixote	Jun 2012	#55
All "leaders" must be held accountable by the people they supposedly represent	Fire Walk With Me	Jun 2012	#58
Pressure vs not voting	DonCoquixote	Jun 2012	#62
Obviously we need a new model which will obsolete the old.	Fire Walk With Me	Jun 2012	#66
There is no way to pressure a politician other than votes and money.	TheKentuckian	Jun 2012	#73
what I mean	DonCoquixote	Jun 2012	#113
I don't buy your premise because it really makes no sense.	TheKentuckian	Jun 2012	#134
reply	DonCoquixote	Jun 2012	#135
I remember when the sentiment, "you're either with or against us" disgusted	Marr	Jun 2012	#56
Presidential elections are one of the rare cases where it applies.	scheming daemons	Jun 2012	#69
Wow-- that's a pretty enormous exception.	Marr	Jun 2012	#84
Naaahhh, that's only when a Republican says it.	Beacool	Jun 2012	#87
If only the collective would explain their rules in advance so that we could all march in lock-step	AnotherMcIntosh	Jun 2012	#95
I'm a rebel at heart.	Beacool	Jun 2012	#102
DU rec...nt	SidDithers	Jun 2012	#57
2 to 4 Supreme Court justice nominations is enough for me....	Rowdyboy	Jun 2012	#60
there are two kinds of people that understand binary	Evasporque	Jun 2012	#64
There are 10 kinds of people in the world,...	GarroHorus	Jun 2012	#65
If you absolutely must put time and energy into this corrupt, bought-and-sold system	Fire Walk With Me	Jun 2012	#67
So using that logic, calling for a victory for the people of this country means,	MadHound	Jun 2012	#70
Are you calling for the defeat of both Romney and Obama?...nt	SidDithers	Jun 2012	#71
It certainly would be a victory for the people, don't you agree?	MadHound	Jun 2012	#72
Great, we're all waiting for a plan from you on how your ideal candidate can win in November.	stevenleser	Jun 2012	#78
This election is a binary event.	OnyxCollie	Jun 2012	#86
So some self important Harvard Professor isn't happy with Obama	WI_DEM	Jun 2012	#74
Only on Huffington Post, apparently.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#76
Precisely. nt	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#75
True. It's game theory played out on a political level.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#80
We know how to get out of this	jeff47	Jun 2012	#85
So "Libruls" are the problem?!?!? Riiiiight. nt	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#91
No, Liberals not showing up to vote is.	jeff47	Jun 2012	#92
It was the "moderates" who failed to turn out for the last mid-term elections. /nt	Marr	Jun 2012	#93
Moderate turnout was down compared to 2008. Liberal turnout was down more. (nt)	jeff47	Jun 2012	#106
That's not what I'd read-- do you happen to have	Marr	Jun 2012	#107
Not in a convenient link.	jeff47	Jun 2012	#111
I'm sorry, but it sounds like you sifted the information to	Marr	Jun 2012	#119
They didn't fail to do so in the WI Recall. Stop blaming Liberals.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#98
So the WI Recall was a primary election?	jeff47	Jun 2012	#105
You're out-of-touch. Ignore the record turnout in WI, but others won't.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#130
Again, they show up when it's exciting.	jeff47	Jun 2012	#131
"Stop" not knowing the difference between a "primary" and a "recall" election.	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2012	#124
I work in UC Berkeley	lunatica	Jun 2012	#88
It is not a binary event.	NCTraveler	Jun 2012	#89
Exactly	Teamster Jeff	Jun 2012	#94
"Reorientation" of the Democratic Party makes some big assumptions	CakeGrrl	Jun 2012	#96
Which might well motivate a stronger progressive movement. One never knows... n/t	jtuck004	Jun 2012	#97
An Obama loss will lead to a "reorientation" all right: a reorientation to the right,	NYC Liberal	Jun 2012	#129
The obvious flaw in your header:	truedelphi	Jun 2012	#99
True. And remember the "free trade" agreements. Three more added. Another is on its way.	AnotherMcIntosh	Jun 2012	#103
Good post.	bigwillq	Jun 2012	#123
AND, as any long term Party Activist KNOWS,	bvar22	Jun 2012	#100
Is this addressed to Unger?	DireStrike	Jun 2012	#109
I agree. But, will add, criticizing a policy position of Obama is not calling for his defeat nor	morningfog	Jun 2012	#118
This thread is awesome...	SidDithers	Jun 2012	#120
Which begs the question, why would they wanna post here? If they agree with Unger, how is......	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2012	#125

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