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Gun Control & RKBA

In reply to the discussion: 5 myths about guns [View all]

Straw Man

(6,623 posts)
21. Nope -- several false premises there.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 03:38 AM
Apr 2021
The argument is that because no law will ever be 100% effective in preventing criminals "from getting their hands on pretty much any sort of gun they might want," the attempt should not be made.

First of all, that's one hell of a straw man you've constructed there, and it's no kin of mine. There are already numerous laws designed to do exactly what you say. Some of them are successful. Some of them are not, and the objection is not that they aren't 100% effective -- it's that they're more like 10% or 5% or 0% effective in preventing crime. Furthermore, they're not without consequences in terms of things like enforcement budgets, public trust, the electability of Democrats, and rights.

Ever since the NY SAFE Act of 2013, it's illegal for me to go to the trap range and swap shotguns with person next to me so that we can try each other's gun: two "exchanges" without background checks, and two more when we return the guns to the original owners: four Class A misdemeanors in a five-minute swap. Tell me how that level of restriction has anything to do with crime or mass shooting or public safety. Two legal gun owners, exchanging guns temporarily, using them in each other's presence on private property, and returning them immediately. Yet this is illegal. "Universal background checks" sound great in principle, but honestly they mean nothing to convicted felons who steal their guns or buy them on the street: that's "nothing," as in 0% effectiveness. More on NY's universal background checks here: http://www.albanylawreview.org/Articles/vol79_4/1327%20Jacobs%20PRODUCTION.pdf

Furthermore, the laws against child pornography don't distinguish between people who should be able to possess it and people who shouldn't be able to possess it. It's not a question of "getting their hands on it"; it's a question of it existing at all. It shouldn't. There is no such thing as acceptable child pornography. Any law that does anything at all to inhibit the traffic in it should be implemented immediately.

There is such a thing as acceptable gun ownership, and the legal system needs to be careful where it draws the line between acceptable possession and unacceptable possession, so as to have maximum impact on crime without unnecessarily infringing on the rights of the law-abiding. That is unless you feel that guns, like child pornography, should be banned outright. Is that the case?

There are better ways of achieving the goal of keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them. A licensing system for gun owners is one: fairly effective and reasonably unobtrusive. Pass a test to get your license, renew it periodically, surrender it if convicted of a violent crime, and otherwise just use to to freely purchase or borrow firearms. It works for drivers, helping to keep the unfit off the road. Why not for guns?
5 myths about guns [View all] melm00se Apr 2021 OP
Myth number 6. Guns make us safer. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2021 #1
Myth 3 contradicted in its own paragraph. hlthe2b Apr 2021 #2
the complete Myth #3 part melm00se Apr 2021 #4
Injury Control within CDC was the agency responsible for researching and funding OTHER research hlthe2b Apr 2021 #5
what you said! nt AndyS Apr 2021 #6
Shame? 50yrdem Apr 2021 #10
I'm curious. TomSlick Apr 2021 #13
No. 3 says fed won't fund gun research and then proves it, contradiction there.... Thomas Hurt Apr 2021 #3
Number 5 is absolutely NOT a myth. AndyS Apr 2021 #7
Thanks for this. I bookmarked it since I know I can figger things out. abqtommy Apr 2021 #8
You are correct 50yrdem Apr 2021 #9
You don't think laws can be effected to seriously cut back the availability of weapons to ... marble falls Apr 2021 #11
Do you really want to make that argument? 50yrdem Apr 2021 #12
In my experience, comments about what some is smoking does not contribute to a reasoned discussion. TomSlick Apr 2021 #15
And the deflection still fails to address my point. 50yrdem Apr 2021 #17
Are you ignoring my question in posts 13 (above) and 14 (below)? TomSlick Apr 2021 #18
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2021 #22
I do not object to the concept of self defense. TomSlick Apr 2021 #23
Do you believe that the words"shall not" have 2 or 3 meanings? oneshooter Apr 2021 #24
The debate over gun control does not revolve around "shall not." The issue is "infringed." TomSlick Apr 2021 #25
You do know that during this period in history there was little/no "gun control " as you know it. oneshooter Apr 2021 #26
Do you have an up-to date map GP6971 Apr 2021 #16
Again, I'm curious. TomSlick Apr 2021 #14
Bad analogy. Straw Man Apr 2021 #19
Actually, it's a perfectly sound analogy. TomSlick Apr 2021 #20
Nope -- several false premises there. Straw Man Apr 2021 #21
Slight problem with your last paragraph... yagotme Apr 2021 #27
I'm not in favor of licensing. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2021 #28
I'm not in favor either, just what I currently have to deal with. yagotme Apr 2021 #29
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