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LWolf

(46,179 posts)
236. Realistically, I expect that,
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 09:28 AM
Apr 2016

should worse come to worst and Clinton win the nomination, Sanders supporters will carefully consider their options AFTER the convention and each individual will come to their own conclusions about how to vote in November.

What seems to be missing from your OP are a few key points:

1. Clinton supporters tend to fall into a few categories: partisan Democrats who would vote for a dead donkey carcass if it had a "D" next to its name; liberals who like Sanders policies and supported Clinton because they're afraid to buck the establishment; people who are simply so afraid of, or feel so much hate for, Republicans that they would, again, vote for a dead donkey carcass if it had a "D" next to its name; neoliberals who actually like and support the neoliberal takeover of the Democratic Party and Clinton as the neoliberal figurehead; women and others who will cast a symbolic vote for a woman president; and people who actually think Clinton would actually do something for liberal causes rather than working for her corporate masters.

Most of those people would vote for anyone other than a Republican in November, with the exception, maybe, of some of those neoliberals who are more Republican than not outside of their voter registration. The attacks on Sanders from the Clinton camp have been mostly ludicrous; there's no credibility for almost any of them, and a great deal of time has been spent attacking his supporters rather than Sanders himself. We get that; there's very little to say when it comes to issues and record, since Sanders beats her handily in both. That focus on Sanders' supporters is going to backfire in November, though, since the attacks have been vicious enough, and false enough, to engender some strong backlash. The attacks on Sanders himself, though, won't stick, because, as previously pointed out, they are beyond ludicrous.

Are Clinton supporters, when she loses, going to admit "that their negative statements, images, and attacks were unwarranted"?

2. Sanders supporters are not monolithic, either. Some of them will vote for the D nominee in November for most of the same reasons listed above. Those that Sanders has brought in from outside the party won't. This is why we've been saying, repeatedly, that Sanders has a better chance in November. He'll get most or all of the D vote, PLUS crossover votes that HRC will not. Some of the left wing of the Democratic Party, sick of being taken for granted and thrown under the bus, will not vote for Clinton. They don't have to worry about being ethically unable to support Clinton; they won't be supporting Clinton, and wouldn't have anyway. She never had their support, and can't earn it.

Many of those attacks on Clinton ARE warranted. Why would anyone, if Sanders loses, pretend that they are not? That would be unethical.

This primary has been, is, about more than Sanders and Clinton. It's about the identity of the party, and whether or not the party will be wrested back from the neoliberals, or whether the neoliberals will complete their takeover. A line has been drawn in the sand. The neoliberal establishment can no longer rely on party loyalty to bring the left to heel in November, because they've worked to hard to disenfranchise and purge the left. Either the neoliberals are defeated, or much of the left is going to look elsewhere. And, if that doesn't work out well for the neoliberal establishment, they'll have only themselves to blame, regardless of how aggressively they play the blame game to deny and deflect.



How about we worry about this around June 7. SheilaT Apr 2016 #1
It's been clear from the beginning that Clinton supporters will support the nominee, whomever it it. brooklynite Apr 2016 #8
Yep. Not a Sanders fan, but I'd vote for him redstateblues Apr 2016 #40
+1. A vote which could end up costing me a lot in additional taxes if he's able to get his agenda beaglelover Apr 2016 #151
A crowd on TV cheered for both BS and HRC Hortensis Apr 2016 #168
No, it hasn't AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #54
Really? leftynyc Apr 2016 #112
Yes, really AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #140
Interesting leftynyc Apr 2016 #223
That wasn't the case in '08 Bettie Apr 2016 #170
Easy to say when everyone in the media and their distant relatives Chezboo Apr 2016 #216
Yeah, I'm sure some would, or will. Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #221
But, see, I'm worried about it now. MineralMan Apr 2016 #11
the way i read your post, you are saying if bernie doesn't win the nom questionseverything Apr 2016 #68
Well, you're reading it incorrectly, then. MineralMan Apr 2016 #71
your words... questionseverything Apr 2016 #79
That was an explanation of why I do not attack Bernie Sanders. MineralMan Apr 2016 #84
How you choose to act is one thing. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #86
How I choose to act is the only thing for me. MineralMan Apr 2016 #91
Yes but our decision to support (or not) Hillary is based not on our actions but on our thinking. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #98
Interesting. But if one's thinking leads to actions, then those MineralMan Apr 2016 #108
If Hillary wins over Bernie, I will write in Bernie as I will never vote for Hillary. She is too peacebird Apr 2016 #188
Well, OK, thanks. MineralMan Apr 2016 #189
if by attack you mean telling the truth about hc,then i am guilty questionseverything Apr 2016 #88
If you believe you know what the truth is, then you MineralMan Apr 2016 #113
That depends on what you THINK but won't say about a candidate. If a person thinks a candidate is sabrina 1 Apr 2016 #102
I agree that talking up a candidate is not always a true indicator of how people will vote. Major Hogwash Apr 2016 #217
If you choose not to say what you think timmymoff Apr 2016 #104
In general elections, I vote for the better outcome. MineralMan Apr 2016 #111
cop out timmymoff Apr 2016 #212
You're an adult, that's why. beaglelover Apr 2016 #152
What silly affectation this stance is. The bulk of Hillary's 2016 DU supporters bashed her Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #234
Ahhh . . . she told you in her post that she would support Bernie if Hillary doesn't win brush Apr 2016 #18
I will support the nominee of the Democratic party. redstatebluegirl Apr 2016 #160
THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A REASON TO CALL BERNIE NAMES OR QUESTION HIS INTEGRITY OR VERACITY! CorporatistNation Apr 2016 #200
It's Hillary's job ibegurpard Apr 2016 #2
Yes it is SHRED Apr 2016 #15
Yup. +1000. And she doesn't want or need liberal votes, apparently. closeupready Apr 2016 #22
.that^ 840high Apr 2016 #52
+1000000 azmom Apr 2016 #82
^^^^ This, exactly, this.^^^^ aquamarina Apr 2016 #131
With every nasty word or sleazy tactic Merryland Apr 2016 #134
YOu miss the point! Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #143
I don't vote for Republicans. basselope Apr 2016 #3
How about let's not out the cart before the horse. KPN Apr 2016 #4
You can cross any bridge you want whenever you want. MineralMan Apr 2016 #17
Who's burning bridges? KPN Apr 2016 #46
"Burned bridges, ethical dilemma." The drama is both unnecessary and laughable. merrily Apr 2016 #87
I suspect a great many of the Bernie supporters... Blanks Apr 2016 #137
Are we to stop holding her accountable if she's nominated? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #5
#IDidMyResearch and I'm #BernieOrBust GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #6
A write in vote for Bernie will not even be reported in most states. In some states, merrily Apr 2016 #56
I didn't say I am writing him in. I'll probably vote for Jilll Stein or just refrain from voting. GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author rbrnmw Apr 2016 #64
I thought the "Bernie or Bust" campaign was about writing in Bernie, if he is not the nominee. merrily Apr 2016 #90
Oh then I guess I'm not #BernieOrBust... Just #NeverHillary or #OneClintonWasDamageEnough GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #92
It started as a pledge to write in Bernie in November 2016, if he is not the nominee. merrily Apr 2016 #96
As am I. #BernieOrBust peacebird Apr 2016 #109
Eh... internet posters will have to walk back online statements? whatchamacallit Apr 2016 #7
i am sure that i will feel worse than the day the scrotus gave it to bush SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #9
What 16 years wasted are you referring to? brush Apr 2016 #20
Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #37
You think the last eight years have been wasted? StevieM Apr 2016 #175
Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #208
What would Bernie Sanders have done over the last eight years that Barack Obama didn't do? (eom) StevieM Apr 2016 #214
ditch the witch SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #215
Most of them will get in line and support HRC....just like Bernie. nt LexVegas Apr 2016 #10
Thank goodness I live in Blue California SHRED Apr 2016 #12
You overcame your previous judgement of Hillary Clinton Fumesucker Apr 2016 #13
Ouch! merrily Apr 2016 #100
Thank you. madamesilverspurs Apr 2016 #14
Realilstically, What will Clinton supportes do if the CGI Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #16
Of course they will Politicalboi Apr 2016 #69
YEah Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #141
No one Bernie sop porter has to walk back statements or admit any wrongs if we vote for Hillary if Jennylynn Apr 2016 #19
For the most part, the people posting the most scurrilous stuff about Hillary ... salinsky Apr 2016 #21
Yeah right Politicalboi Apr 2016 #72
Not a good guess. n/t Dawgs Apr 2016 #76
Your post is dead wrong. Autumn Apr 2016 #83
Clueless memery. Most of them are long time DUers (unlike you) and much longer time Democrats. merrily Apr 2016 #99
Yeah, right .... salinsky Apr 2016 #107
And? Some of Bernie supporters have veen voting nothing but Democratic since 1952. merrily Apr 2016 #162
Yep, there are always outliers. nt salinsky Apr 2016 #166
OMA (Outliers, my ass.) merrily Apr 2016 #184
I don't care where you put them ... nt salinsky Apr 2016 #191
I've voted straight democrat since '92.... Buddyblazon Apr 2016 #233
Long time Democrats who are firm in their convictions Mnpaul Apr 2016 #158
As a person who has many problems with her Sky Masterson Apr 2016 #23
I think you put to much faith in the fact that those attacking Clinton here and elsewhere.... NCTraveler Apr 2016 #24
I'm sure that's true in some cases. MineralMan Apr 2016 #27
I don't think there is as much discord among Democras as you think. nt. NCTraveler Apr 2016 #32
"How will they overcome" ? Jester Messiah Apr 2016 #25
A lot of the IDs online will simply disappear. onehandle Apr 2016 #26
Until to return ... JoePhilly Apr 2016 #30
I'm sure that's true in some cases. MineralMan Apr 2016 #31
Realistically?.... #whichhillary? HumanityExperiment Apr 2016 #28
And you make my case for being concerned. MineralMan Apr 2016 #33
I make many cases... HumanityExperiment Apr 2016 #42
This may be just me but you want answers Joob Apr 2016 #29
I will have a tremendous problem supporting her as the nominee. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #34
Re: horrible candidates Jackilope Apr 2016 #106
. merrily Apr 2016 #35
What will Clinton supporters do is she wins the nomination Lordquinton Apr 2016 #36
Probably go an a cleansing rampage -none Apr 2016 #94
That's no good for unity Lordquinton Apr 2016 #142
I prefer Hillary, but I will not hesitate to vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination. Arkansas Granny Apr 2016 #38
I was ok with her until her claims about Reagan and the AIDS crisis. That and the antisemitism Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #39
What are you going to do to win them over? GeorgeGist Apr 2016 #41
I'm going to let them make their own decisions. MineralMan Apr 2016 #73
Isn't the real question - what is Hillary going to do to earn our vote? Insult us some more? Yell? jillan Apr 2016 #43
She's going to be the Democratic nominee, if she wins. MineralMan Apr 2016 #75
So using emotional blackmail is the only plan to earn our votes? Vote for me cuz the other guy jillan Apr 2016 #77
This message was self-deleted by its author metroins Apr 2016 #174
What is with you Hillary people? Did you really have to use the example of mental retardation? jillan Apr 2016 #179
I have IDD in my family metroins Apr 2016 #181
When you use a group of citizens as an insult, I don't want to hear anything else you have to say. jillan Apr 2016 #182
Exactly as I would've thought metroins Apr 2016 #196
Exactly as I would've thought metroins Apr 2016 #196
Exactly as I would've thought metroins Apr 2016 #197
The primary problem is confusing the more excitable posters... TreasonousBastard Apr 2016 #44
Many have already said they're either staying home or voting Trump Blue_Tires Apr 2016 #45
Hillary could surprise everyone & say she'd appoint William K Black as her AG think Apr 2016 #47
I bet a good way to ensure their supports is to tell them they are dumb and don't do research. Goblinmonger Apr 2016 #48
I don't think there is much integrity in the uglier attacks we are seeing. bettyellen Apr 2016 #49
That was helpful think Apr 2016 #51
I am talking about the fringe haters. Not going to win them over anyway. bettyellen Apr 2016 #65
She's got to win them. Party loyalty is dying. Independents are 43% of the electorate riderinthestorm Apr 2016 #50
I like this post! TransitJohn Apr 2016 #213
Most Dems will vote for the nominee... Orsino Apr 2016 #53
More to the point, and to reinforce what some others have said here, SheilaT Apr 2016 #55
I rely on people to make their own decisions. Always. MineralMan Apr 2016 #78
I could not in good conscience campaign for Hillary. SheilaT Apr 2016 #122
I campaign for Democrats. MineralMan Apr 2016 #124
Double Standard CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #103
Thanks for bringing this topic up, MM floriduck Apr 2016 #57
Realistically, why..... Sivart Apr 2016 #59
Shhhh. We're not supposed to notice the double standards, one-sidedness or hypocrisy. merrily Apr 2016 #101
I plan to ruthlessly attack the Repugs LostOne4Ever Apr 2016 #60
How Quickly Do You Think She Would Lurch to the Right? DrFunkenstein Apr 2016 #61
At least Bernie supporters here are keeping it on DU Autumn Apr 2016 #62
Well, you won't find me on any of those places. MineralMan Apr 2016 #80
I have ZERO faith that Hillary will be able to unite the party. berni_mccoy Apr 2016 #63
P.S. merrily Apr 2016 #66
I don't know anything about PUMAs. MineralMan Apr 2016 #81
Ask someone else what? I didn't ask you anything. I don't think I've ever asked you anything. merrily Apr 2016 #85
PUMAs were bitter losers, no different than the #BernieOrBust crowd SFnomad Apr 2016 #118
I will support Jill Stein Politicalboi Apr 2016 #67
HRC can campaign on Least Worst Choice aikoaiko Apr 2016 #70
If she wants my vote, she has a VERY large mountain to climb. VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #74
I think it goes far beyond politics... Mike Nelson Apr 2016 #89
Love ya, MM! longship Apr 2016 #93
I almost never visit the candidate groups on DU. MineralMan Apr 2016 #97
I agree with you about the Group thing (nt) Turin_C3PO Apr 2016 #206
Speaking only for myself MynameisBlarney Apr 2016 #95
I cannot compromise my principles Optimism Apr 2016 #105
That's interesting, I guess. MineralMan Apr 2016 #110
Very finely put rock Apr 2016 #114
I appreciate that. It seem to be a rare opinion. MineralMan Apr 2016 #116
Right now leftynyc Apr 2016 #115
I suppose a lot of people feel that way. MineralMan Apr 2016 #119
It was very much like this leftynyc Apr 2016 #222
I would support Turin_C3PO Apr 2016 #207
This message was self-deleted by its author DUbeornot2be Apr 2016 #117
Oh, I see. MineralMan Apr 2016 #120
This message was self-deleted by its author DUbeornot2be Apr 2016 #128
I'm sorry. I guess I'm not understanding. MineralMan Apr 2016 #130
We've been heaping calimari on Hillary's head? JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2016 #121
Oh gosh. I believe I typed "calumny," not calimari. MineralMan Apr 2016 #133
Are you casting asparagus on that poster? Fumesucker Apr 2016 #219
I won't have to walk back any statements Bjornsdotter Apr 2016 #123
I don't think that highly of myself or my beliefs, really. MineralMan Apr 2016 #127
My beliefs are which would Bjornsdotter Apr 2016 #139
It's not too late to support the far superior General Election candidate! nt mhatrw Apr 2016 #125
I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm not going to worry about it Jarqui Apr 2016 #126
It will not be a dilemma for me at all. MineralMan Apr 2016 #129
I will NOT support Republicans - I don't have to think about that Jarqui Apr 2016 #132
Vote DEM in every downticket race bigwillq Apr 2016 #135
You will do as you please, I'm sure. MineralMan Apr 2016 #136
Can you reply to msg 57? floriduck Apr 2016 #138
I could not find anything in it to reply to. MineralMan Apr 2016 #155
I think the bigger obstacle to supporting her is how much she, her campaign, and her supporters Vattel Apr 2016 #144
DENIAL SisterSarah Apr 2016 #145
Supporting corporate shills is not an option nolabels Apr 2016 #146
Write in vote. grntuscarora Apr 2016 #147
I am with you Mineral Man. Sorry you have to have so many nasty replies hurled at you. Jitter65 Apr 2016 #148
Not thinking about that yet. Hoping for strong performances ahead mvd Apr 2016 #149
They'll go to their 'safe space' and pout and then on election day when no one is looking they will beaglelover Apr 2016 #150
You keep believing that. Katashi_itto Apr 2016 #159
I will. beaglelover Apr 2016 #161
Dream ticket Califonz Apr 2016 #153
yea, sure. NOT (-100) eom Karma13612 Apr 2016 #190
Bernie or Bust AgerolanAmerican Apr 2016 #154
About 10% of Democrats don't vote for the Democratic nominee even when Sarah Palin is on the R's WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #156
I, for one, will vote for the Democratic nominee this November. . . DinahMoeHum Apr 2016 #157
Realistically, I don't think they have to tell you tularetom Apr 2016 #163
I didn't suggest that they had to. MineralMan Apr 2016 #165
If Hillary is the nominee, I will support her. muntrv Apr 2016 #164
Thanks for your reply. MineralMan Apr 2016 #167
. baldguy Apr 2016 #169
Perhaps so. MineralMan Apr 2016 #171
They will each do as they think best FreedomRain Apr 2016 #172
A majority of the people won't support her and that has always been the problem Android3.14 Apr 2016 #173
Over 80% will vote for Hillary RandySF Apr 2016 #176
I think so, too. MineralMan Apr 2016 #178
If you believe that noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #202
DU does not represent Sanders voters at large RandySF Apr 2016 #204
Nor does it represent Hillary voters Android3.14 Apr 2016 #230
Unrealistically, they will... Zambero Apr 2016 #177
I think you know what we will do. PowerToThePeople Apr 2016 #180
Actually, I don't. MineralMan Apr 2016 #187
I will continue to think she would make a horrible President Bjorn Against Apr 2016 #183
They will protest for a few weeks or months and then come home to the Dems by October. LonePirate Apr 2016 #185
As some posters have already said, lets not jump the gun. Karma13612 Apr 2016 #186
Whatever I want? Loudestlib Apr 2016 #192
Of course. MineralMan Apr 2016 #194
Realistically? EdwardBernays Apr 2016 #193
OK. Thanks for answering. MineralMan Apr 2016 #195
I won't EdwardBernays Apr 2016 #218
You know what I think will happen, MM? Haveadream Apr 2016 #199
"heaping calumny" is a two-way street, evidently. dchill Apr 2016 #201
What happens in the ballot box is secret. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2016 #203
I think Turin_C3PO Apr 2016 #205
I'm voting my conscience. frustrated_lefty Apr 2016 #209
IDK what they'll do, but Jamaal510 Apr 2016 #210
You have every right to muse openly, MM, and I have every right to say: None of your business. nt Bonobo Apr 2016 #211
You are exactly right: it would be an ethical problem for many of us. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #220
Why are you so concerned with how people are going to "walk back negative statements” about Hillary? Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #224
Christ, its not rocket science. Why support a corrupt canidate? Katashi_itto Apr 2016 #225
I think right now DetroitSocialist83 Apr 2016 #226
Have to agree with this one hereforthevoting Apr 2016 #228
Many bernie supporters will end up blaming bernie for not living up to.. dubyadiprecession Apr 2016 #227
I can acknowledge the pos and negs of each hereforthevoting Apr 2016 #229
In 2008, the "3:00 am phone call" crowd mostly ended up voting for Obama. Jim Lane Apr 2016 #231
Sorry, Hillary supporters...I don't vote for Republicans... Buddyblazon Apr 2016 #232
I'll put most of my energies into Russ Feingold's campaign and some into other progressive Dems. Scuba Apr 2016 #235
Realistically, I expect that, LWolf Apr 2016 #236
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Realistically, what will ...»Reply #236