Oh dear. Sorry, but no, it's not Sanders' fault either. (Reply #54)

In the discussion thread: Switch Jill Stein votes to Clinton, and just half of Gary Johnson votes, and here's what you get: [View all]

Response to R B Garr (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 02:35 PM

DirkGently (12,151 posts)

54. Oh dear. Sorry, but no, it's not Sanders' fault either.

Sanders ran as a Democrat, and was actually a more viable candidate. He didn't run negative on Clinton, and he didn't have the DNC running ethically questionable interference for him as Clinton did. If Sanders hurt Clinton in any way, it was by so overtly laying off her "damn emails," which turned out to be a real shot in her foot delivered by Clinton herself.

As for being an independent running as a Democrat, that's well within all the rules, and if anything it seemed more palatable to people divided by our increasingly polarized politics. Maybe next time the party should seek out an independent to run on our ticket.

Clinton was never as popular nationwide as Sanders. Putting all the right-wing mythology aside, she had a built an image as a sharp-elbowed insider whose best skill was navigating the system for her own benefit. She ignored the rust-belt where Sanders won, tamped down progressive enthusiasm about everything from healthcare to education to the minimum wage, and tried to win on the basis Trump was too terrible to win, which he should have been.

The candidate lost. No one lost for her or made her lose.

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106 replies	Author	Time	Post
Switch Jill Stein votes to Clinton, and just half of Gary Johnson votes, and here's what you get: [View all]	scheming daemons	Nov 2016	OP
While I agree with you...	LP2K12	Nov 2016	#1
Maybe it would be better to be inclusive	Duckhunter935	Nov 2016	#2
That's like telling someone their tire is flat	rzemanfl	Nov 2016	#3
They attacked. And don't you forget it. They attacked and blew the whole fucking thing up!	boston bean	Nov 2016	#4
Just pointing out again what throwing away votes results in.	yallerdawg	Nov 2016	#16
Your suggestion got us dubya and trump. Time to dump those voters who are spoilers	Lil Missy	Nov 2016	#43
Specious reasoning.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#5
Yeah, none of that competent/smart/accomplished shit for us, this time.	Paladin	Nov 2016	#9
Obama was all those things, AND inspiring.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#13
Agreed. Trump was following Reagan's lead with his own simple slogan.	guillaumeb	Nov 2016	#37
A bad emotional appeal beat a bloodless technocratic appeal.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#72
I think part of the problem is that the corporate media has been "defining" the Clintons for years.	guillaumeb	Nov 2016	#94
They had a choice, and they used it selfishly and stupidly and immorally	frazzled	Nov 2016	#12
It's the candidate's job to convince voters.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#18
Bull	frazzled	Nov 2016	#20
I support Dems making just arguments that can win.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#21
No, your arguments and language show you clearly do not	frazzled	Nov 2016	#23
Do you have a substantive response to the post?	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#27
There was plenty of substance in those responses. And your same empty rhetoric was used	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#41
"Bull." is not substance. And independents didn't beat Al Gore.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#48
I clearly remember "independents" being interviewed during that election.	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#50
What are you going to do, punish the voters for disagreeing with you?	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#58
But she had already convinced the voters. She was winning, and that's	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#67
Clinton stayed well past inevitability in 2008 as well.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#69
Your statement is not even true and it is out of context. But that is the hallmark	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#73
Well, no. Clinton was widely criticized for overstaying in 2008.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#75
This is self-serving and out of context again, the hallmark of the Clinton bashers.	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#81
So we agree Hillary stayed in way past viability in 2008.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#85
This same tired rhetoric was used about Al Gore. He was picked to death, including	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#91
Gore was robbed by Republicans and the Supreme Court.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#93
Oh, absolutely correct that it was the Bush bro Florida connection and the Supremes	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#99
I doubt progressive purity drove 3rd party votes.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#102
Great points. We know that Obama is a tough act to follow and is almost a once-in-a-lifetime	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#105
"Anyone else would have been slaughtered". ... no.. one word... Biden	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#63
Yeah Stein really convinced me breaking bread with Putin and Trumps man Flynn in Russia....	Historic NY	Nov 2016	#38
HRC was the Democratic nominee.	Lil Missy	Nov 2016	#106
"That was the choice. It was a choice for the nation, not for your..."	jmg257	Nov 2016	#25
oh ye gods	DemonGoddess	Nov 2016	#30
We're back to voting for the candidate we want to have a beer with	mcar	Nov 2016	#35
arrrrghhh	DemonGoddess	Nov 2016	#36
in trumps case...	Javaman	Nov 2016	#47
At least Hillary drinks beer!	greatauntoftriplets	Nov 2016	#49
I'd love to have a beer or a glass (or two) of wine with Hillary	mcar	Nov 2016	#66
That's a rather radical reading of the post.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#101
In hindsight Ms Clinton had some obstacles to overcome	discntnt_irny_srcsm	Nov 2016	#95
Ah, but they bask in the glow of the pure fire of their anger as it burns down advances made....	Hekate	Nov 2016	#6
EXACTLY. thank you n/t	DemonGoddess	Nov 2016	#31
To those who voted third party instead of Clinton because of principles I say....	hrmjustin	Nov 2016	#7
Sorry, but I'm not putting this one on the "third party" candidates.	Buzz Clik	Nov 2016	#8
No owns "independent" votes.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#28
Ahem, an "independent" was running as a Democrat and did nothing but	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#46
Oh dear. Sorry, but no, it's not Sanders' fault either.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#54
Yes, that bandwagon is roling now!	HassleCat	Nov 2016	#57
Attacking Clinton from March/April when he had no clear path to victory	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#60
And how did we respond to these "attacks?"	HassleCat	Nov 2016	#71
It is not ragging on someone to notice that they have no clear path to victory.	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#78
I know, right? It can't be that Clinton just lost.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#68
Well, they did stick to their guns.	leftofcool	Nov 2016	#61
The margins show exactly what happened, and the third party voters	R B Garr	Nov 2016	#44
Made possible only by the fact that the Democrat nominee...	Buzz Clik	Nov 2016	#52
308,000 registered Democrats in Florida 2000 election voted for Bush	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#53
No one ever brings this up?	Buzz Clik	Nov 2016	#62
I was 9 then, but in university we studied the 2000 elections and I see so much "Nader as spoiler"	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#65
And this year voters left the top space blank.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#79
I wonder how many Registered Democrats voted Trump in the swings?	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#82
Found a few anecdotes that may have happened, but nothing more.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#89
I know only 4 people here in London who voted Trump. All 4 voted against Hillary	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#90
I was as wrong about Trump as you.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#92
The Average US-dwelling American has no idea how much the US foreign policy with the constant	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#96
Yes, Bernie gets his terminology wrong.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#100
scheming daemons, I read and see what you're saying .....	LenaBaby61	Nov 2016	#10
Even worse	SickOfTheOnePct	Nov 2016	#11
Ding! Ding! Ding!	Raster	Nov 2016	#15
I haven't seen a state where 20% voted for Trump	SickOfTheOnePct	Nov 2016	#19
Because they're racists! At least in Michigan, I know several	Pathwalker	Nov 2016	#22
this	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#83
And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.	longship	Nov 2016	#14
What if we had simply just switched nominees?	InAbLuEsTaTe	Nov 2016	#17
I would blame ALL the people who didn't vote for her, not just 3rd party voters.	jmg257	Nov 2016	#24
yep, MILLIONS of Democrats, including my fellow PoC, stayed home	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#45
It's the IDEA of 3d parties that enrages authoritarians.	DirkGently	Nov 2016	#97
Agree - nitpicking everywhere but where the real problem lies. Ah well. nt	jmg257	Nov 2016	#98
I blame Quatar for not hacking Trump's email.	Wilms	Nov 2016	#26
Good Point!	sfwriter	Nov 2016	#29
At least they voted. Showed up fulfilled their responsibility.	SQUEE	Nov 2016	#32
"But...subtract one Kadem..."	kenfrequed	Nov 2016	#33
Yes	mcar	Nov 2016	#34
Stein/Johnson voters are added to my basket of dimwit deplorables.	oasis	Nov 2016	#39
Be honest	Omaha Steve	Nov 2016	#40
good luck getting 50% of Libertarians to vote for Hillary	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#42
Let's not forget that they're even further to the right of Republicans on the Economy.	HughBeaumont	Nov 2016	#56
K&R	CajunBlazer	Nov 2016	#51
I'm getting a little tired of this.	HassleCat	Nov 2016	#55
this!!!	Grey Lemercier	Nov 2016	#59
I detest these people. I really do. Look where we are now.	onecaliberal	Nov 2016	#64
Most of those that voted for a third party...	Else You Are Mad	Nov 2016	#70
How the hell does adding half of Johnson voters change anything?	DemocraticWing	Nov 2016	#74
Exactly.	Else You Are Mad	Nov 2016	#77
And switch some votes from Democrats.	HassleCat	Nov 2016	#76
There is a problem with the whole logic of this.	Scruffy1	Nov 2016	#80
Because every snowflake is special.	NurseJackie	Nov 2016	#84
"Shit in one hand, and Wish in the other...."	BlueProgressive	Nov 2016	#86
So how are you so sure some DU	INdemo	Nov 2016	#87
I didn't say any DU members did.	scheming daemons	Nov 2016	#88
I don't see libertarians (T party Jr.) voting Hillary	Omaha Steve	Nov 2016	#103
Meh. It's the hundreds of thousands of registered Democrats that didn't bother to vote that we	progressoid	Nov 2016	#104

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