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The Magistrate

(95,241 posts)
45. A Thorough Conventional Analysis, Sir, Which Does Point Up the Real Problem
Tue May 8, 2012, 05:37 PM
May 2012

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 06:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Which is that these people are fundamentally frivolous, without any sound core of judgement, and led by the nose over trifles. Your third element comes the closest to presenting anything of substance, and even it boils down to describing a complete incapacity to outgrow childhood illusions.

Most expressions of support for 'other demographics' are not framed as 'implicit and frequently explicit attack on white men': many white men past a certain age, particularly in rural and southern locales, take them as 'explicit attack on white men' because they understand they do occupy, and feel entitled to occupy, a position of inherent superiority in a caste system of race and gender, which they cling to for solace against other unpleasant and disappointing facts of their lives. So long as they continue to draw much of their sense of self-worth from this caste superiority, it will not be possible for anyone to frame 'support for other demographics' in a way that such people will not take as 'implicit and frequently explicit attack on white men', because by their lights, that is exactly what 'support for other demographics' is, and from their point of view, they are quite accurate in seeing that to be so. It is not, in other words, a problem that can be fixed, at least on the terms stated. You are essentially suggesting that people be sure their complaints concerning being treated as inferiors be couched in terms that will not ruffle the feathers of those who feel themselves superior to them.

Umbrage at 'political correctness' is a longstanding staple; most of us even on the left have our own humorous examples of earnest excess. But the long rightist protest against it is as bogus as it is inane; all it actually is is the ringing proclamation 'Damn it, I'm a jerk, I like being a jerk, I intend to go on being a jerk, fuck you if don't like my being a jerk --- me being a jerk is the height of human Liberty!' People who take up that cry ought to be laughed at, slapped, shamed in whatever manner is most immediately available and appropriate, and the treatment continued till they learn to grow up show some sense.

Now this comment of yours actually does state the problem, and does so very well: "When you've grown up preached to daily that the country is the paragon of freedom, the bastion of Christianity, and the unchallenged leader in all metrics of good and right, and that it is the white male's bounden duty as the privileged holder of the reins of power to keep it so, much of the message that it is guilty of enormous wrongdoing, lagging behand in basic humanity, and laughably naive theologically, however true, will not win your hearts and minds." The problem is that the people we are discussing actually do believe this, and yet to all appearances are fully grown adults, often with grey heads and beards, and a person who can reach adult stature, even an elder's state, and still believe this labors under serious moral and mental deficiencies. They not only live in a state of profound delusion, they require it as an essential prop to their image of themselves and their place in the world. You might as well try and convince a person laboring under paranoiac delusion that the world really is not plotting against him: he knows damned well it is, and takes a certain satisfaction from the prominence this entails, and the best you will manage is to convince him you are an especially oily servant of the great Combine dedicated to his downfall.

No remotely mainstream political figure on the left, certainly no one running for office, really talks of 'starving the MIC'': the stream-lining and improving line you suggest is the one actually employed, not that this makes a tinker's damn worth of difference. Solid majorities of the people in this country, including majorities among Republicans, want the Afghan business brought to a halt, and soon. And again, the line actually being pressed by political figures is exactly the one you suggest, and it does not seem to make a smidgen of difference to the attitudes these people display in a voting booth. All down the line, your fourth point is already being implemented, and with scant apparent success.

The final thing is the most frivolous of all. We will put to one side argument over how harassed by thousands of laws the poor fellow who owns a gun might or might not be. Whatever the burden, it does not seem to have put any crimp in the steady increase in gun sales and possession. But the real gist of the 'gun issue' is absolute hysteria, deliberately fomented by a few organizations on the right. Those who make 'gun rights' their sole, or even a major, criterion of how they will vote, are showing a instinct for the capillary, revealing an inability to give proper weights to matters of state and state policy: lacks which tell strongly against the sense of innate superiority they so often seem to feel their inalienable possession.


This looks interesting. Jamastiene May 2012 #1
Really? Does it sound bad? n/t Dawgs May 2012 #2
ok, and how exactly should we appeal to white men over 40 other than doing what we're doing? unblock May 2012 #3
Wow! Amazing how so many of you miss my point. Dawgs May 2012 #9
I have no desire to appeal to the current "white men" who comprise the Republican base. toddwv May 2012 #22
the only thing amazing is that you're ignoring a simple request to propose some solutions. unblock May 2012 #23
Why Not White Men Too? mazzarro May 2012 #4
The Problem, Sir, Is Older White Males, Particularly In Rural And Southern Locales The Magistrate May 2012 #5
Great idea. Let's give up without trying. n/t Dawgs May 2012 #12
Not Every Problem Has A Solution, Sir The Magistrate May 2012 #18
Thank you, Magistrate Empowerer May 2012 #26
Stereotypes and generalizations are not useful. There's a lot of white men over 40 in this pic Scuba May 2012 #6
+1. bemildred May 2012 #7
Huh, I'm asking Democrats to inform those that continue to vote against themselves. Dawgs May 2012 #16
It's your question, you answer it. I'm done. bemildred May 2012 #21
Are those people republicans? Dawgs May 2012 #14
As an old, straight, white guy, I'm not really sure how to put this. OffWithTheirHeads May 2012 #8
Not talking about you... geez! n/t Dawgs May 2012 #10
I'm sure the way to get their vote is to insult a large group of people FSogol May 2012 #11
"I sure the way"??? Dawgs May 2012 #13
You added the term "Republican" to the group you are hating on. It didn't appear FSogol May 2012 #15
I hope you're joking. My whole OP was about getting white men to vote Democratic. Dawgs May 2012 #17
Like this OP, much of the Dem message seems to be tuned intentionally to denigrate them dmallind May 2012 #19
Very well said. OffWithTheirHeads May 2012 #20
Thanks for the reasoned and thoughtful response. Dawgs May 2012 #30
A Thorough Conventional Analysis, Sir, Which Does Point Up the Real Problem The Magistrate May 2012 #45
As a member of the hetero-white-guy-over-40 demographic ... I remind the members of my cohort ... JoePhilly May 2012 #24
And this... Wait Wut May 2012 #39
YUP ... I also find that their wives lean democratic, if not actually being dems. JoePhilly May 2012 #43
No voter group is homogeneous. upaloopa May 2012 #25
Are you saying I'm racist against white men? n/t Dawgs May 2012 #32
Could you link an example? I'd be interested to know why you feel white men are treated..... Tarheel_Dem May 2012 #46
I wish you all the best. qwlauren35 May 2012 #27
I agree with most of you are saying, but my post has nothing to do with Obama. Dawgs May 2012 #37
Cause we're already pandered to enough Arkana May 2012 #28
"Pandered to"? Not sure that was what I was suggesting. n/t Dawgs May 2012 #33
What do you think the "we got bin Laden, Romney wouldn't have" adverts are for? muriel_volestrangler May 2012 #29
It's a start. n/t Dawgs May 2012 #36
You want to win over men? mathematic May 2012 #31
WTF! I think my definition of 'jock' (in this context) is quite a bit different than yours. Dawgs May 2012 #35
That's good. I think you should be able to appreciate this point. mathematic May 2012 #38
Your point is fine if I was suggesting we use the jock stereotype for any purpose. Dawgs May 2012 #41
We have a jock president and he's still pretty much trashed by white men. Drunken Irishman May 2012 #47
Jock Presidents, Senators, etc are pretty common mathematic May 2012 #48
Tagline for the ad: "WELCOME, SMART WHITE MEN"... polichick May 2012 #34
Why would you want to appeal to ignorant bigoted war-loving ex-jocks? independentpiney May 2012 #40
Are you a Republican? Dawgs May 2012 #42
This white man over 40 (ahem) proudly supports President Obama! Bake May 2012 #44
As this cohort sees their jobs and careers outsourced, downsized, rightsized and otherwise.... LongTomH May 2012 #49
I am white, 45, heterosexual, and upper middle class scheming daemons May 2012 #50
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