Why aren't Dem. Leaders "helping Robert Kennedy Jr" - CDC Cover -up !

[cthrumatrix]

This issue hits at the heart of our problems in America ...the "sham of democracy"

Joe Kennedy Jr. has been busting his butt trying to "educate america" on the damaging affects of "vaccines that have lead to autism". We was excellent this morning on IMUS.

What we have:
----------------
* CDC hiding the data showing causal effect to autism in 1of 166 children

* Frist and other leader "sponsoring lawsuit limits" on behalf of pharmaceutical companies

* Media "not covering" story.


WTF are OUR LEADERS demanding a damn hearing on a generation of children and families affected.

You want proof that Dems are bought and paid for like rethugs --- where the hell are our leaders???



Deadly Immunity
By Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Salon.com

Thursday 16 June 2005

A Salon/Rolling Stone joint investigation.
When a study revealed that mercury in childhood vaccines may have caused autism in thousands of kids, the government rushed to conceal the data - and to prevent parents from suing drug companies for their role in the epidemic.



(Image: Salon.com)

In June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Ga. Convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the meeting was held at this Methodist retreat center, nestled in wooded farmland next to the Chattahoochee River, to ensure complete secrecy. The agency had issued no public announcement of the session - only private invitations to 52 attendees. There were high-level officials from the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, the top vaccine specialist from the World Health Organization in Geneva, and representatives of every major vaccine manufacturer, including GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Wyeth and Aventis Pasteur. All of the scientific data under discussion, CDC officials repeatedly reminded the participants, was strictly "embargoed." There would be no making photocopies of documents, no taking papers with them when they left.

The federal officials and industry representatives had assembled to discuss a disturbing new study that raised alarming questions about the safety of a host of common childhood vaccines administered to infants and young children. According to a CDC epidemiologist named Tom Verstraeten, who had analyzed the agency's massive database containing the medical records of 100,000 children, a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines - thimerosal - appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children. "I was actually stunned by what I saw," Verstraeten told those assembled at Simpsonwood, citing the staggering number of earlier studies that indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism. Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants - in one case, within hours of birth - the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.

snip
But instead of taking immediate steps to alert the public and rid the vaccine supply of thimerosal, the officials and executives at Simpsonwood spent most of the next two days discussing how to cover up the damaging data. According to transcripts obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, many at the meeting were concerned about how the damaging revelations about thimerosal would affect the vaccine industry's bottom line.

"We are in a bad position from the standpoint of defending any lawsuits," said Dr. Robert Brent, a pediatrician at the Alfred I. duPont Hospital for Children in Delaware. "This will be a resource to our very busy plaintiff attorneys in this country." Dr. Bob Chen, head of vaccine safety for the CDC, expressed relief that "given the sensitivity of the information, we have been able to keep it out of the hands of, let's say, less responsible hands." Dr. John Clements, vaccines advisor at the World Health Organization, declared flatly that the study "should not have been done at all" and warned that the results "will be taken by others and will be used in ways beyond the control of this group. The research results have to be handled."

snip
The drug companies are also getting help from powerful lawmakers in Washington. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who has received $873,000 in contributions from the pharmaceutical industry, has been working to immunize vaccine makers from liability in 4,200 lawsuits that have been filed by the parents of injured children. On five separate occasions, Frist has tried to seal all of the government's vaccine-related documents - including the Simpsonwood transcripts - and shield Eli Lilly, the developer of thimerosal, from subpoenas. In 2002, the day after Frist quietly slipped a rider known as the "Eli Lilly Protection Act" into a homeland security bill, the company contributed $10,000 to his campaign and bought 5,000 copies of his book on bioterrorism. Congress repealed the measure in 2003 - but earlier this year, Frist slipped another provision into an anti-terrorism bill that would deny compensation to children suffering from vaccine-related brain disorders. "The lawsuits are of such magnitude that they could put vaccine producers out of business and limit our capacity to deal with a biological attack by terrorists," says Andy Olsen, a legislative assistant to Frist.

snip

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/061605HA.shtml

[Syncronaut Seven]

1. They're trying to kill us

perhaps we should rally, maybe write our congresscritters? I dunno.....

Maybe they're not really trying to kill us....... Yea, that's it, easy as pie.

Suzie, stop drooling, your 14 now.

[cthrumatrix]

2. maybe Conyers or Dean might like this issue as way to show who is

being bought .....

Rethug leaders who voted for the pharma bill are know scum. We need to know who are the dem co-conspirators.

[IChing]

3. Change your title it's not Joe it's Robert

good post

[cthrumatrix]

4. thanks

[cthrumatrix]

5. I'm waiting for some answers ......???????????????

[Warpy]

6. They're ignoring this stuff because it's BULLSHIT

For god's sake, read some medical journals instead of that Prevention Magazine crap.

Separating fact from fiction: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/autism.html

Links to articles in the medical literature: http://www.neurodiversity.com/etiology.html

Search for causes: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/39/13/44

No single cause, no single cure: http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:iRXbE3HxflYJ:www.autisminfo.com/bristolpower.ppt+autism+etiology&hl=en

Autim overview with multiple causes identified: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/3959/abstract.htm

[cthrumatrix]

7. you can't be serious....

[Mnemosyne]

70. He is serious, posts the same in every thread on mercury.

I am very ill from my family being poisoned (low-level) for almost 20 years(1965 to about 1985) from merc (Dad's occupation, milk hauler). My 8 month old nephew recently died due to birth defects (global) due to his mother's exposure and when I posted it, he got all sarcastic about how "easy" it is to take care of merc. poisoning and acted as if I'm some dumb ass. I live with this every day and it destroyed my life. Hope his family never suffers from poisoning of this sort, he seems to have little compassion.

The evidence mounts and thank God for Kennedy, et al.

I know how heinous this shit is and get tired of those that imply it's not. I've done hundreds of hours of research on this, believe me, it's bad and getting worse. The problem is there is not an instant effect unless you are exposed to an extremely high amount at once (which can kill quickly), when exposure is chronic and low-level it is insidious. And due to the lapse from exposure to symptoms, it makes it very hard to connect the two, most of the time. The symptoms can mimic so many things that getting diagnosed is very difficult, took them YEARS to figure out my situation. It can actually move from organ to organ doing harm then moving on to cause another bunch of symptoms. It affects the brain, kidneys and heart the worst, but also attacks the endocrine system fairly often also.

I just ignore posters like this now. Some believe they have all the answers without much knowledge or experience.

Thanks for the great thread!

[cthrumatrix]

72. all thanks go to Mr. Kirby and Mr Kennedy....and my sincere heartfelt

prayers go to you and your family.

[Mnemosyne]

74. Thanks cthru. I love Robert, such

integrity and care. This poisoning of our world has got to stop before it's too late, maybe Kennedy can be a catalyst!

[Junkdrawer]

10. Yea. Just when the drug companies had the Thimerasol Autism...

stuff nicely labeled as tinfoil, along comes the Simpsonwood data.

Damn. Look at the bright side: more work for lobbyists.

[Susang]

45. Did you read the entire Simpsonwood transcripts

Skeptico actually did read the entire 286 page transcript. He shows how the Salon article changed the language to make it more inflammatory and sensational, in many cases outright changing the meaning of what happened at Simpsonwood.

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/06/robert_f_kenned.html

I am no fan of the the pharmaceutical industry and have actually suffered harm due to their negligence, but in this specific case, there is no cover up and there is no conspiracy, no matter how much you may want there to be one. Frist may be an asshole, but he's not responsible for autism.

[Junkdrawer]

50. So you support Frist's legislation to protect drug companies...

from lawsuits by parents of autistic children. :shrug: That's been his only involvement in the issue.

[Susang]

59. What does that have to do with actually reading the transcripts?

Though you've inadvertantly answered my original question. Thanks anyway.

[Junkdrawer]

55. Oh, and as for "Skeptico"....

Then it gets interesting. On day two, the experts each get a turn giving their view on whether there is a causal link between thimerosal and autism. The participants were asked to rate the possibility of a causal link on a scale of one to six: one being a weak causal link, six strong. From page 189 to 222 you can read of one attendee after another (with just one exception) grading the likelihood of a causal relationship as being either a one or a two out of six. The mean value given by the group (page 253) was 1.8 - very little evidence for a causal link.

There was only one exception (Dr. Weil) who gave it a four. Guess which one Kennedy quoted? (No prizes.) Here are some more representative quotes I pulled from the transcript:

Part one, is there a causal association between ethylmercury and neurological effects noted in the Vaccine Study Datalink project? The answer is no. Why not? From a toxicologists (sic) viewpoint there is no dose response relationship (Page 191)

To me the increasing mercury levels in your population at one month… is so small that it would suggest to me that you have a confounder here. That this is not due to mercury. (page 213)

I gave it a value as 1. I think the strength of the associations are mostly weak and the weaker the associations, the more likely bias might explain some of this. (Page 217)

This is not designed as a study to look at the effects of these vaccines on the different outcomes, but it is using data collected for other reasons, so it is not a carefully controlled prospective cohort study to study. We are using data that was collected for other purposes. (Page 218)


So, for example, I guess the Enron prosecution thing should be handled by getting all the Enron executives in a room and asking them "On a scale of 1 to 6 where 1 is you walk and 6 is we nail your hide to the wall, what should we do?". Come to think of it, it's probably not far from what is happening...

[Gelliebeans]

14. thanks for the links Warpy n/t

[bunny planet]

16. Tell it to me and my son Warpy. I've run into you before on this board.

It's only bullshit because it hasn't happened to you or yours apparently. My son had a series of required vaccines at 15 months of age, including the very controversial (unbeknownst to me at the time of course) MMR vaccine, all with thimerasol. At that time all of the vaccines contained thimerasol and you were required by law to have the vaccinations, sometimes 3 or 4 at a time in order to have your child be able to attend school later on. After that shot my son ran a high, high fever, was listless for days and afterwards stopped talking for three years. He was diagnosed as being autistic. He had been speaking in sentences and talking normally before that vaccine. I know dozens of other families with the exact same story, child goes limp after having a bad reaction to the vaccine and afterwards exhibits for the FIRST time signs of autistic spectrum disorder. You can't just make this stuff up, IT HAPPENED, to millions of families. Children who received the booster shot for MMR with thimerasol at age 13 who were normal young people up until that point became autistic after getting those shots. There are countless stories about thimerasol being the culprit. Experts can talk about it until they are blue in the face, parents have seen it actually happen to their kids.

[trudyco]

19. Thanks for the heads up Bunny

I have a child with multiple LDs I've spent a college fortune on trying to fix. Maybe the thimerasol vaccines had something to do with it. THe ped claimed that it was OK to give the vaccines to my tiny preemie based on a full term baby's schedule....I've always wondered.

I've compared my real life experience with quackwatch and they often come up with stuff straight out of their ass. Don't know about warpy's other references, but I suspect they are equally biased.

The epidemic of autism is real and nobody has given a good reason why it has increased so much...such an increase can not be due to genetics so it has got to be something we're doing to our kids... bet it will be a combination of things including either MMR combining or thimerasol. I do know some kids that chelate the mercury out do get better.

I didn't realize my kids might STILL be in trouble with later boosters. Is it better to forgo the booster then? I got mumps and chicken pox the old fashioned way. Now I don't know what I've done to my children. If they don't get a booster they may get these diseases as adults... and if they do get a booster God knows what else is in there....

God I hate what capitalism has done to this country. Wish we could just ban all lobbying. It's just another form of bribery. Elected officials shouldn't be allowed to sell any books, articles or songs, either.

Sigh

[bunny planet]

22. You can now request a non thimerasol vaccine for any of the ones that

are required for school. Also get the acellular version or dead polio vaccine (in fact the acellular for any vaccine where it is available) not the live one. You can refuse to get the vaccines all at once like the doctors 'suggest' you do, and when all else fails you can try and get a religious letter excusing your child from having to get the vaccines altogether. Whooping cough is a very dangerous disease for little kids to get so a non thimerasol containing shot for that should be fine and necessary especially if you live in an large urban population. My youngest child got the vaccines without thimerasol and once the MMR vaccine was made safer and she was fine, although I cried every time she had to get a shot I was so scared after what happened to my son.

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. There has never been thimerosal in MMR

Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), varicella (chickenpox), and inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) have never contained thimerosal.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal-vacs-facts.htm

[bunny planet]

30. So I guess my son had a reaction to the more toxic version of MMR that was

still being given in 1992. He had more than one shot that day, they gave at least 3 or 4 at once, one of them must have had thimerasol in it. You seem to be knowledgable, what do you know about the old MMR vaccines. My pediatrician said they were harming children and were replaced with a much less 'controversial' version. By the way, I don't believe that much of what the government websites tell me, call me crazy. The pediatrician told me there was thimerasol in the vaccines and also told me that lots of kids had bad reactions to MMR at that time. I just assumed that thimerasol was also in the MMR. Doesn't change my opinion about the ingredient or the article about the cover-up however. I'll never know which vaccine harmed my little boy but I sure as hell know it happened and something he was injected with at that doctor's visit was responsible.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. I don't know anything in particular about vaccines

but there is a lot of information on the web - you just need to sift it and weigh up the viewpoint of those writing it.

It seems there were different strains of mumps vaccine used in the MMR combined shot, and one of them - Urabe - sometimes caused viral meningitis (which is often caused by mumps itself). Canada withdrew the Urabe vaccine in the late 80s; the UK in 1992; and I don't know about the US, but that might well be the controversy your doctor told you about.

Aseptic meningitis occurs with mumps and some mumps vaccine strains (for example the Urabe Am 9 and Leningrad 3 strains). The Urabe Am 9 strain was used in one preparation of MMR vaccine in some parts of Canada in the 1980s and in other countries (19). The current MMR vaccine widely used in Canada has a different (Jeryl-Lynn) strain, which has not been associated with aseptic meningitis.

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/ID/id98-02.htm

Whatever you think of the research, the fact that the MMR vaccine does not contain thimerosal is not disputed by anyone.

All the best to you and your son.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Read up on genetics

and the age autism usually appears. That will give you a far better explanation than the vaccines.

[bunny planet]

61. I've read all of that. I"ve been in support groups and I've read

everything I can get my hands on about the subject. You tend to do that when you have a child who has been affected. I've studied genetics, was fascinated by Gregor Mendel's discoveries when I was a student. The much more plausible explanation, in my humble opinion, is the vaccines with mercury, which are given 3, 4 , and 5 at a time, so that the supposedly negligible amount of the preservative is actually in much greater quantities. It is not a coincidence that so many kids are normal until they have these shots, and then become completely different. I saw it myself with my own eyes. Have you read the literature in Britain about the large amounts of autism in teenage children who were normal up until the point they had a 13 yr. booster of certain vaccine and THEN became autistic. That doesn't fit into the 15 month 'typical onset age' of autism either. It's hard to understand why you are defending statistics and studies over the word of real human testimony. I guess then that you disagree with Robert Kennedy Jr's point of view in the article as well.

Back in the fifties, expert Bruno Bettleheim had a theory that was widely accepted at the time, that the 'refrigerator mother' had somehow caused autism in her children. Times change, experts change their opinion, but I think the families that have experienced the situation and know their children are the best experts. I do have a friend with an autistic child and she has other children in her family tree (only on her side by the way) who also have autism. In her case she thinks it is genetics and I agree with her (btw her child was autistic from birth). Isn't it possible that there are many causes for autism, and that thimerasol in vaccines, is a very possible factor?

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. There are also large numbers of parents

of ADHD kids who are convinced diet plays a role in that disorder. But that myth has been repeatedly debunked for nearly 25 years now. A doctor in Massachusetts has made a fortune selling a diet that does NOT work and may even cause nutritional deficits in kids.

The Scientologists have embraced this 'diet causes ADHD' idea and have been force feeding it to their listeners for nearly 15 years now.

I am a parent of ADHD kids. Our national conferences have been disrupted by Scientologist fanatics. Children we work so hard to protect have been damaged by this movement and by the quack doctor who has misled parents while ignoring the science that refutes his claims.

Another quack doctor claimed colored lenses on eyeglasses (which cost $1800!!) would 'cure' learning disabilities. She also made a fortune.

So I know that hysterical and desparate parents are not always right. And they are easily misled and taken advantage of. I would hate to see another group of parents affected by bad science.

[bunny planet]

66. I am not a Scientologist, I don't believe in quack medicine and am not an

hysterical or desperate parent. I live across the street from a renowned pediatrician who is a friend of the family and who specializes in developmental delays. I have gotten my son medical help from caring and highly competent professionals and he is doing just fine now. Your answers thus far have been presumptuous and condescending, not quite sure what you gain from this approach to dialogue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. I am not trying to be condescending

and I apologize if I have given that impression.

I am just trying to relate that some parents have been misled by doctors and other groups and will continue to be misled as long as quacks think they can make a buck. Not all parents come from a family of scientists or live across the street from a renowned pediatrician.

I learned to trust science when I struggled to find a cause and the best treatment for my own children. Once I found the right scientific research, the pieces of the puzzle in my own family all fit and we were able to find the best and most reliable treatment available.

I also learned there are despicable charlatans preying on desparate parents.

Just trying to share my experience and pass on a bit of what I have learned.

[bloom]

17. "Links to articles in the medical literature" ??

that's pretty funny:


From one link on that page ->

"The majority of individuals in contemporary societies are living within patriarchal or patrifocal social structures and are highly lateralized, narratively focussed, right handed, hierarchically inclined humans which is a deviation from the traditional matrifocal physiological/neurological type characteristics of which are often found in individuals diagnosed as autistic. The traditional matrifocal type features brains that are less lateralized with the two hemispheres often being of similar size, males that are associative thinkers not narratively organized, individuals who are frequently left handed or ambidextrous, and non-hierarchically organized men who are maturationally delayed compared to their patriarchal social structure relations. The human species is spread along a left-right spectrum or arc reaching from the matrifocal, ambidextrous, left-handed, old genetics on the left to the patrifocal, right-handed, newer genetics on the right with most people falling in the center showing features that are a combination of the two. Individuals with a familial history which places them at the left end of this continuum are particularly vulnerable to disorders characterized by maturational delay.

This site will begin with a discussion on evolutionary theory, proceed to outline the origins of autism through an understanding of matrifocal social structures and its place in human evolution, and conclude by specifying the exact reasons autism is becoming common at this time....

Moreover, as women have their children later, engaged in the workplace competing with men, they are gestating their infants in a womb bathed with higher testosterone levels engendering increased maturational delay. For example, a 40 year old left-handed women with a husband in architecture or computer engineering, will conceive a boy who is a candidate for robust maturational delay.

Blending of Ethnic Persuasions

The United States is the melting pot. A glorious result of this stew is the blending of formerly unfamiliar genetics into new genetic mixes engendering skills and talents among our children often unattained by a homogeneous people who rarely mix. Usually, these stunning talents are derived from individuals located along the left end of the maturational spectrum. Grace-filled coordination, musical excellence, and intuition for abstract pattern manipulation, and extraordinary dance skills are some of the many gifts associated with the left side. And it is no mistake that many of these people are Americans - mixed ethnic Americans. In America the races blend."


http://originsofautism.com/

-----

Not exactly medically sound opinions. :eyes:

[Susang]

43. How about this one?

Lots of links here, no wacky ones endorsed, RFK Jr article refuted point by point: http://oracknows.blogspot.com

[doni_georgia]

26. Think it's bullshit? How many kids with autism do you know?

I know many, including my son. I saw the complete reversal of development after his MMR vaccine. There is no history of autism in my or my husband's family. My son is the first on either side to have this disorder. Same holds true for others I know with affected children. Don't want to believe there could be a link betweem mercury and autism - fine, but no one can deny that themerisol is a neurotoxin. It is classified as such. Why on earth would anyone approve a neurotoxin to be used as a preservative in childhood vaccines? Truth is we are constantly learning that things once thought to be okay aren't. With all the lobbying by the pharmaceutical industry why would ANYONE assume they have anyone's best interest at heart?

[anima33]

27. There's more to this situation than meets the eye...

I was lured here by the link to my site, Neurodiversity.com. It is quite possible that autistic kids are more sensitive to vaccine components than non-autistic kids. However, this is not the same thing as saying that "vaccines cause autism" or "all autism is caused by vaccines."

I am convinced that the current outcry over the potential toxicity of vaccine components, and the growing unease about vaccination in general, reflects legitimate concern over potential adverse effects; lack of familiarity with the devastating consequences of epidemic infectious disease; the need for better support and services for families of autistic children; the need for effective treatments to address the health problems and impairments commonly suffered by autistic children and adults; and the need for better science education.

There's plenty of evidence of a strong genetic component in autism, including evidence from the living experience of many families. This may be influenced by environmental factors, a possibility that is currently the subject of a major study (the CHARGE study) at the UC Davis MIND Institute.

From my reading of the article, it appears that Mr. Kennedy uncritically summarized material provided him by a small group of parents, their lawyers and other allies, unaware of the wider context in which this whole drama is playing itself out -- that is, the larger "autism community," which includes parents who respond to disability in many different ways, autistic citizens themselves, and treatment- and research-related factions jockeying for increased attention, public funding and private clientele. This context also includes a core of "autism cure" doctors and other salesmen who use emotion-laden appeals to induce parents to pay through the nose to offer their kids up as guinea pigs in pseudo-clinical trials that lack the benefit of an institutional review board or other supervision by disinterested parties -- then turn those parents into their best salesmen by promoting a cult of hero worship in mass gatherings where parents are encouraged to parade their children in public with dubious claims of "recovery" that could very well be simply a matter of maturation or "diagnosis creep."

See http://www.neurodiversity.com/evidence_of_venom.html for an open letter that I sent on May 29 to David Kirby, author of Evidence of Harm: Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic. One purpose of my letter to Kirby was to point out the extent to which the agenda of many anti-thimerosal activists often involves undermining support for practically every other area of autism research besides biomedical. http://oracknows.blogspot.com contains some interesting comments about the RFK Jr. article. http://autismdiva.blogspot.com and http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk always have something sassy to say on the subject. Also, http://www.salon.com/opinion/letters/2005/06/17/thimerosal has a number of good letters in response to the RFK Jr. article, including one that I sent in.

[bunny planet]

28. Once again, children who are developing normally have gotten vaccines

with thimerasol and then after having an adverse and frightening reaction to the shot itself, soon after regress in development physically and mentally, and start to show the signs of autism spectrum disorder. There is no history of Autism in either my family or my husband's family, my oldest child did not have an adverse reaction to her vaccine and was fine. My son had the same course of vaccines as she did at 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, and then again at 15 months. The 15 month vaccine was in 1992, the MMR vaccine with thimerasol was the one that caused him to run a high fever, go limp and not ever be the same again. This is the case in literally millions of cases of autism, the child has had the vaccine at 15 months and then and only then displays symptoms and behaviors (after the fever goes away) of developmental delays, not before, but AFTER the vaccine. The child actually regresses and loses skills that he or she had mastered up until that point. This is not a coincidinky. I have been involved in support groups for families dealing with autism and this is the most common story of all, not family history of autism. There is a link to thimerasol. I certainly do not condone undermining research about other causes of autism, of course I support all research into the condition. I just don't appreciate so-called 'experts' ignoring overwhelming evidence that points to thimerasol as being a major suspected cause in triggering autism.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. It is not your genetics or your husband's genetics

It is when they are COMBINED that a genetic risk is present. Simple biology - think about it. This is true of many disorders caused by genetics. Tay Sachs and sickle cell are just two examples. One parent alone does NOT pass down the disease.

[bunny planet]

62. There are many genetic disorders that only need genes from one parent

to have the trait show up in children. Then there are other much rarer disorders that require a gene from both parents. I know children who are autistic because their mother had many instances of autism on her side of the family, but her husband had no autistic family members, and their autistic child was autistic at birth, not suspiciously after a 15 month series of shots with thimerasol. That would lead me to believe that autism that is genetic is not the type of disorder that is passed down from both parents. If both parents have the gene, you might get a more severe form of autism. There are many, many, stories about Aspergers children (high functioning highly intelligent form of autism) where there is ONE parent who also has the syndrome.

Not sure why a few people posting on this thread are so determined to disprove that thimerasol might have something to do with autism. Is it that you have complete faith in what the government tells you. Do you have autistic children too and can tell us your experiences. Just wondering.

This is obviously a highly personal, emotional, gut-wrenching topic for some of us here. I am posting because I felt finally, with Robert Kennedy's article, that there was someone of prominence willing to speak out about what many famiies dealing with autism have known all too painfully well for many years, that there is a cavalier attitude on the part of the drug companies in addressing the growing problem of the epidemic of autism and possible causal effects of thimerasol in their vaccines. If vaccines are so harmless in this issue, why was it important for Frist to write in the clause in the frigging Homeland Security bill indemnifying Eli Lilly from damage suits brought by parents whose kids had been hurt by thimerasol? I could understand if he had indemnified companies that manufactured smallpox vaccine, where the risks are well known but it was specifically for childhood vaccines, not specifically smallpox.

It's a little disconcerting to see such dispassionate, statistics thrown out here in such a confrontational way. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but then maybe not having experienced this tragic circumstance firsthand allows some of you to be more dismissive than you would be otherwise.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. We are posting here because

we want science to he honored, not tossed out if it doesn't happen to support the conclusion you favor.

The fact is that researchers all over the world, not just here in the US and not just the ones employed by the drug companies, have been studying the autism epidemic for almost 20 years now. They have yet to find a CREDIBLE link to the vaccines. Heartbroken parents who are convinced their child got autism from a vaccine is NOT a scientific connection.

As a professional, I want a link to be found. I want the epidemic to be stopped. But I don't want the risk of other devastating childhood illnesses to rise because hysteria causes parents to refuse to vaccinate. We need clear heads examining this problem so we can help the children who have autism and prevent future cases. Let's do it right. Then it will have lasting effects.

[bunny planet]

65. I don't favor any conclusion. I just know what happened to my

son. I don't and have never wanted to sue anyone, am not hysterical, and I come from a family of scientists. You seem to think that being a heartbroken parent precludes my ability to also be a thinking parent. I never said that thimerasol was the only cause of autism or even that it had been proven to be the cause. I do suspect that it plays some role that has yet to be proven, but I could be wrong. Maybe it was the MMR vaccine that my son got in 1992 before they pulled that particular vaccine off the market that is the culprit in my son's case. Maybe that vaccine coupled with the three or four other shots he got at 15 months (same visit) that did have thimerasol did the damage. I will probably never know and that is heartbreaking. It is especially heartbreaking to know that some politicians, and some professionals, and some drug companies, do not really want me to know, and are lawyered up just in case.

I want science to find the link conclusively as well as you do. If you've read any of my other posts on this thread, I did not advocate for anyone to not get vaccines for their children, I merely suggested they ask for the vaccines without thimerasol which are available now and to schedule one vaccine at a time if at all possible. I still want to know why Frist indemnified Eli Lilly from being sued over thimerasol in children's vaccines in the Homeland Security bill? Does it not honor science to ask that question?

[cthrumatrix]

67. I guess Frist thinks the best approach is too $$$ limit Pharma lawsuits

and this guy is a doctor???????

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. Another example of a bad doctor

receiving entrely too much attention and making money off of other people's pain.

[stickdog]

41. Yes, vaccines have seemingly been very helpful in fighting many

horrible diseases. And we don't know for SURE that mercury-laced vaccines cause autism.

However --

We do know that thimerosal is highly toxic and that vaccinations and autism are correlated. We also know that the CDC has gone out of its way to suppress evidence of this correlation. We also know that the MAJORITY of the experts who mandate and certify vaccinations are on big pharma's payroll.

What we don't know is what a highly toxic poison is doing in mandated infant and toddler vaccines.

[burrowowl]

46. Add that to high mercury

levels in people and especially pregnant women from underscrubbed coal-fired plants, etc.
I wish I could find that Life photo some 40 years ago of a Japanese mother holding her mercury-posioned daughter like the Pieta.

[Susang]

44. Hi anima33

Welcome to DU! I love your website (found it through Orac) and always find it interesting. Check out the Science forum and the Skepticism, Science and Pseudoscience group. :hi:

[NoHg]

53. Try this link

www.generationrescue.org

[Susang]

58. No thanks, already been there

Bad science lives in that link. You can't cure autism with skin cream.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Thank you

This is a left wing conspiracy theory. DU is better than that. As much as I would love to give these parents good reason to sue the pharmaceutical companies, the science just isn't there to back up their claims.

I am saving your links. Thank you so much for posting them.

[preciousdove]

34. Quackwatch = Corporate shill

After the courts ordered the AMA to stop targeting alternative providers with a well paid group of thugs the thugs moved on and formed Quackwatch, still being paid by big money to dish lies in medicine and attack the reputations of the truth tellers in research and investigative journalism.

They are clever since they do include some real scams but they also target legitimate information for corporations. Don't trust what you read there or on Canadian healthwatch.

[stickdog]

40. Sorry, but establishment science is the same as establishment media or

establishment anything else.

If you spin back the clock a few years the same sort of discussion could have applied to asbestos, tobacco, CDCs & the ozone layer, Gulf War Syndrome or global warming. Even A-bomb radiation sickness was denied by "scientific research" for several years after we clobbered Japan.

We don't know for SURE that mercury-laced vaccines cause autism, but we do know that vaccinations and autism are correlated and that mercury is highly toxic. We also know that the CDC has gone out of its way to suppress evidence of this correlation. We also know that the MAJORITY of the experts who mandate and certify vaccinations are on big pharma's payroll.

What we don't know is what a highly toxic poison is doing in mandated infant and toddler vaccines.

[Susang]

42. Warpy, I think I love you

Neurodiversity is an excellent blog, only surpassed by this one: http://oracknows.blogspot.com

He has an excellent, point by point rebuttal to the Salon article.

[Junkdrawer]

8. Note the date of the Simpsonwood conference: June 2000...

While the Republicans have taken the lead in "Eli Lilly Protection Act" legislation, who appointed the CDC management at that meeting? :shrug:

[cthrumatrix]

9. I am for "the truth".... there are many children and families affected by

this. Any Rethug or Dem knowingly aiding a CDC cover-up should be behing bars -- just like the children with autism.

[Junkdrawer]

11. Couldn't agree more...just trying to answer your original post. n/t

[Burried News]

12. One of the consequences of war is no other business gets done.

The GOP knew that and knew the only way to govern with the inept George was to create such huge crisis that no other issues could come forward.

And of course there is the other agenda of completely burying the Kennedy name. Because if you notice Joseph, someone might remember Bobby and John and start making comparisons and start thinking about how it used to be different. They truly want to remove the name from History.

[SoCalDem]

13. When CEO's grandchildren are diagnosed with autism,

the issue will gain traction.

Probably not before. Autism, like ANY anomaly in children is usually just extreme agony , borne in silence, within the affected families. Most cannot afford the hyper-intensive treatments that do work sometimes. and if there are other children in the family, there is sometimes just not enough time or money to go around.

[cthrumatrix]

15. I would have hoped our Dem Leaders have a bit more "spine" and

common sense.

The GOP/Frist are clearly wrong in protecting pharma...it's now a cover-up.

This is illegal.

[Jeanette in FL]

18. Wonder if CEO's families get the same

vaccines as the general public. If they do then their children and grandchildren should be exhibiting the same rate of autism (1 in every 166 births). That would be very interesting to see what the statistics are for the CEO's. If they are not receiving the same vaccines as the general public, why not?

[SoCalDem]

20. You would never be able to get that information

I do know that rich people have more access to better doctors, so perhaps they are also more "cautious".

[Jeanette in FL]

24. No kidding

I know when my son and daughter-in-law were discussing the vaccine issue with their pediatrician, they were told that there are two different types of vaccines; government vaccines which are paid for by insurance companies etc and private vaccines which would be paid for out of pocket. The private vaccines are single dosed whereas the government vaccines are multiple requiring preservatives. At this point my kids decided on not getting the vaccinations for their child until at least he is a bit older and his immune system is developed. The pediatrician gave them no problem and wrote it on their charts. It seems that the richer and more educated you are the tendency not to vaccinate, according to this pediatrician. Made me wonder.

[lostnfound]

37. Wonder whether vaccine manufacturer's top execs..

allow the use of the same multi-dose vaccines on their kids.

[preciousdove]

35. RW Fundie doctors are providing "alternative vaccines"

When my sister with 5 kids and hubby in Marines living in VA and her husband was a defense attorney at JAG. The family had talked to her about the dangers of the diseases the vaccines prevented. I am 15 years older than she is, had measles encephilitis and knew kids who had had polio. She had me come in with her to "see" the kids getting vaccinated.

I also heard that PGA golfers go to South Africa to get treatment for on the QT Lyme Disease that is not available here. This from a ex-wife of a SR PGA golfer who I have know since the early 1990's. Like me her kids were born when she was first infected but untreated. She ended up having to go to NY for treatment. Mayo clinic and the U of MN do not believe in Lyme Disease beyond the first set of symptoms, go figure.

[Jeanette in FL]

21. The only congress person I have ever heard

speak against the pharmaceutical companies was Republican Dan Burton. That was because he has a grandchild who became autistic immediately after receiving a vaccine protocol. The child was perfectly normal up to that point. He has had hearings on the hill trying to bring attention to the problem but unless you watch CSPAN you wouldn't have seen it. He used to updates on his website, but I haven't been there in awhile.

[Catchawave]

23. I caught this interview this a.m.......

I have such a love/hate relationship with Imus' program, but my ears perked up when Bobby, Jr. was on. Then the Imus team made fun of him.

[bloom]

25. I don't generally watch Imus

but you can connect to an interview of Imus with David Kirby - "Evidence of Harm" - here:

http://www.independent-media.tv/gtheme.cfm?ftheme_id=94

IMUS: Interview with David Kirby on Mandated Vaccines

[Octafish]

31. That's a DAMN good question, cthrumatrix!

As a sort of ancillary question, I'd add how come more Democrats aren't standing up with Conyers when it comes to the Washington Post -- let alone the Monkey House?

[wiggs]

38. Sad discovery: there is no opposition party. nt

[FreedomAngel82]

39. Frist is such an evil man

:mad: I hate the SOB!

[H2O Man]

48. Why do politicians keep a safe

distance from Robert? Because he tells the truth. People who tell the truth make people who compromise their values feel uncomfortable.

[cthrumatrix]

49. Bingo.... we have a winner. IF there was Dem who has not "sold out"

to the drug companies they could be a hero.

BUT....pocketing campaign money is more important than the life of children in America .

(For those Dems who are working this issues and have not spoke out yet -- my aplogies.)

[Vinca]

51. It seems to me it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you

shouldn't shoot infants up with massive doses of mercury, even if autism as a result is not proven. We're told not to eat tuna fish for Pete's sake, yet baby vaccines would probably kill the darn tuna.

[NoHg]

52. If you think it's a problem now....

just wait until these kids are eligible for social security disability at age 18. If the system isn't already bankrupt it will be then.

[cthrumatrix]

54. do drug companies make big $$$$$$$$ treating autism ????

[Mnemosyne]

56. They aren't helping Robert because it would

ruin their profits. I would bet that many of them hold big pharma stocks and have received donations from them.

They are complicit in the poisoning of our children. They are a shame on this country. Anyone owning stock in these corporations is complicit and should be deeply ashamed. IMHO

[cthrumatrix]

57. Pharma has big "bullseye on it" after the medicare reform bill

the US citizens are being screwed ...if they are shown to be at fault

with this situation...they are in deeeeeeep shit.

[Nothing Without Hope]

60. TWO RELATED THREADS ON THIS - media suppression of RFKjr's message:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1555022
Thread title: "ABC Bosses Tell ABC News Kill The Interviews With Robert Kennedy Jr. …"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3894117
Thread title: "All: PLEASE read RFK Jr's article on autism & vaccines"

And I'll cross-thread this current one to those two. This is vitally important and the suuppression of it parallels so many other lies.

[Kraklen]

71. Probably because it's mostly loony pseudoscientific

nonsense.

[H2O Man]

73. Right.

Anyone claiming it poses no risk to use mercury in shots for infants is using pseudoscience. That's why Imus challenged any of the weasals that are invested in this to come on and debate Robert one on one. I'll be surprised if anyone takes Imus up on the challenge.