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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 10:51 AM
Original message
Holmes: Ganging up on Dean
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 11:10 AM by party_line
snip>
We knew this campaign was going to be ugly. Republican and Democrat operatives left off the last battle at each other's throats amid the chaos of the Florida recount. The Republicans have already struck the first blow at the patriotism of the Democrats running for president, airing a commercial that charges - falsely - that the Democrats are "attacking the president for attacking terrorists."

The media will be nasty as well. That much was clear when Al Gore dared raise his head two weeks ago to endorse Dean. Pundits of all stripes pulled out lazy caricatures of Gore as wooden and prone to reinventing himself. People who should know better repeated the lie that Gore had claimed he invented the Internet.
snip>

The Democrats' attacks on Dean are likely to escalate in the next few weeks. He's the frontrunner and eight other candidates would like to chip into his lead. But it's not just his opponents Dean has to worry about. His campaign is a rebuke to the Washington Democrats -- the Tom Daschles and Dick Gephardts who rolled over through most of Bush's first term. His pledge to represent "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" is a slam at the DLC centrists who think success comes from sounding a lot like Republicans. The success of Dean's Internet-based small donor fund-raising undermines Democratic National Chairman Terry McAuliffe and others like him who rose to power by tapping the fat wallets of selfish interests.

Sure, there are differences on policy matters, but that's not what's going on here. The Washington Democrats -- incumbents, fund-raisers and the consultants who feed off them -- don't like Dean mostly because he doesn't need them.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/columnists/collholmes12292003.htm

edit (in case mods consider this source too conservative)

Dean critics from these quarters will not hurt him. His support has grown because he stood up to Bush policy when the Dem leadership gave us, instead, the slack jawed posture of "please sir, I want some more". Many of the formerly timid have come around because they've seen that support for opposition and for fighting back is strong and deep. Those numbers will grow.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Woo hoo! A hard-hitting piece!
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 10:54 AM by Padraig18
Gotta LOVE it, when someone calls a spade a spade! :thumbsup::bounce:
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Dean returns the edge to the democratic party. Without Dean the '04
race would be pathetic. Without Dean there would have been no questioning of Shrub or bombing the sheperds. (Kucinich excepted).

Dean '04...
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is from a conservative paper
FYI
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. not really the point is it?
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 11:22 AM by Cheswick
Just thought I would mention that fact.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Ahem... the point is it is an attack on ALL Democrats
Just thought I would mention that fact.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. The quailifiers are pretty clear
-the ones that are attacking Dean, characterized as the those who rolled over for bush or are wedded to "fat wallets of selfish interests".

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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Dean is being used to divide us (Dems)
and Dean certainly has done his part too.
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Divide WHO?
Statist, elitist, Entitled Democrats from the pink tutu old school, who vote for war to appease a war criminal?

Guess what - I WANT to be divided from THEM. Far, far away.



Dean's gonna get your country back, whether you want him to or not.


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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. I edited to add my own observations
thanks :hi:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dean stood with those DLC centrists
For the last decade. If people can't see through this born again Democratic bullshit, that's up to them. I'm betting there's a whole lot more lifelong Democrats who see straight through it and we'll show him who has the power.

Rally around a candidate before a vote is cast indeed.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. When they wouldn't fight back, he did.
When we needed them to fight, they failed.
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. He coincidentally decided to fight
back ONLY after he initiated his run for the Presidency. You didn't hear a lot of angry Dean until 2002. He found a angle with his early attacks and jumped on it. Good for him but it doesn't make him some sort of uniquely anti-Bush voice in the Dem party.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Coincidentally after we lost in 2002
and it became obvious that the assault was needed.
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dreissig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Kerry Voted for the War
More than just a tactic, Kerry's vote was a statement of values. The Yes vote turned out to be way out of the Democratic mainstream, leaving Kerry in an untenable position. As Bill Bradley once said about George Bush Sr.: he wiggled, he waffled and he wavered ....

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isbister Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. Kerry NEVER Voted for the War
The only candidate for President with a vote for the war was bush and he did so.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Dean may have been with the DLC when they were sane but
the DLCers who vote with Bush now are damaging the fiscal health of our country.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. ummmm no
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 11:26 AM by Cheswick
not exactly. Lots of people were DLC back in the day. Now anyone with sense is leaving that pack of blood sucking self designated party "leaders". That Kerry chose to hang witht the DLC hoping for some crumbs of support is the problem for his supporters to wish away.
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. "Dean stood with those DLC centrists...born again"
It certainly is a puzzlement, I agree. :toast:
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Glad to Read 2 Unions Pulled
their money from those Osama ads.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. NICE!
It's reassuring to read this. There's nothing Dean's enemies can do.
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. The conservatives are going all out to sell this guy to mainstream
Democrats, and it seemed to work up until recently. Now that people are starting to pay attention to the primaries before they vote, Dean is not helping himself by making polarizing statements, such as We are no safer after the capture of Saddam, etc....But we all knew this would happen, if he loses ground prior to the first votes being cast he has no one to blame but himself. Please note his money machine is slowing down as well...
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. You must have overlooked this part-
snip>
Now the conservative media is going after Dean, painting him as reckless, unpatriotic, angry, out of step and delusional. And the election is still 11 months away.
end snip>

"Delusionsal" isn't usually a big selling point for the mainstream, is it?

And the truth is that we are no safer after The Capture. People aren't stupid. In fact, we could *really* avoid polarization if we agreed with everything the repubs say but that's no fun!
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clarknyc Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Can you verify this?
Please note his money machine is slowing down as well...

Got a link? If not, what do you base this on?
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. $20,000 in the last hour
:bounce:

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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Dean is collecting 3 times the money that Clark is
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 11:36 AM by Cheswick
Clark should have such a slow down.
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. the problem with dismissing all DC democrats is that some
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 11:21 AM by bearfartinthewoods
of them are in congress and the senate and if they are up for re-election in 04 will have to campaign with whoever is at the top of the ticket. this is going to be hard if the top of the ticket is against the war and the congressman or senator wasn't.

so we have people running against, not only a pubbie but the dem prez candidate as well.

no one ever wants to talk about what happens if dean is the dandidate..and we fall even further in the house and senate.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Dean's blog recently raised about 60 grand for Boswell
a DLCer with no strings attatched.

I think that's a language the DC dems will understand.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
12. "Washington Democrats"? His Supporters Finally Got The Talking Point Right
:D

Dean versus the "Washington Democrats"... give me a BREAK!

First you all tried Dean was an Outsider versus the Insiders
Then Dean was a REAL Democrat versus the DLC'ers

Keep trying to make Dean look like an outsider but it doesn't and won't work.

Dean is a DLC'er and an insider and the latest effort to try and use the "Washington" hook is just weak... as weak as Dean himself who now whines constantly about the Democratic Process.

Mommy, they're actually talking about my record again... make them stop. :cry:
Mommy, they won't just line up behind me because Al Gore sez so...
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Clearly defined (after the "-")
as the ones who rolled over. Dean IS outside that, you can bank on it.
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rogerashton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. What's interesting is
it doesn't stick to Dean. That's how it is with real politicians, who win elections.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Doesn't "Stick To Dean"? You Mean Teflon? Like Junior's?
You think Dean has some intrinsic quality that allows all this to roll off him?

That is just not right.

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lurk_no_more Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. Interesting choice of words
gore as prone to reinventing himself

Isn't that exactly what dean is doing now? Oh that's right, he's not reinventing himself, he's "growing".......into the reinvented presidential candidate dean.


Food for thought from….“JAFO”
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. That was part of the rwing and Kool Kidz attack on Gore
They used all kinds of BS slime against him. Maybe some of it stuck when it shouldn't have because it wasn't countered successfully.

Using weapons from the last conflict isn't a good idea when your opponent is on to them.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
31. Washington Ds and the "consultants who feed off them"
Wonder who that would be?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. Unless the Democrats destroy themselves....
The nomination of a prowar candidate may just do the trick and resurrect what everyone else expected to be a mere blip over the horizon: Another Nader run for the Presidency.

Published in the January 12, 2004 issue of The Nation
Fleeing the Greens
by John Nichols

Unless the Democrats destroy themselves, either with a fratricidal fight for the nomination or by selecting a pro-war, pro-free trade candidate like Joe Lieberman, 2004 is not shaping up as a particularly good year for breaking the grip of the two major parties. Polls and anecdotal evidence tell the same story: With his pre-emptive wars abroad and pre-emption of civil liberties and civil society at home, Bush has made the choice so stark that voters are unlikely to feel very adventurous come November.

<snip>

So why go independent? Critics (and even former supporters) say this is just the latest evidence that Nader is on an extended ego trip. But that's a simplistic calculation. Nader has an ego, but his presidential ambitions have always been guided by a firm, and hardly irrational, belief that both major parties are corrupted--the Republicans beyond repair and the Democrats not much better. Nader wants to upset the country's politics just as he upset the corporate world with his unsafe-at-any-speed activism of the 1960s. There's little point in questioning his sincerity. There is, however, good reason to question his strategy.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1226-07.htm
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