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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 02:34 AM Original message |
For leftists like me, questions to think over |
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Leilani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 04:22 AM Response to Original message |
1. I believe the vast majority of Americans |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:39 AM Response to Reply #1 |
6. Every time I say this... |
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JI7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 09:00 AM Response to Reply #1 |
9. yes |
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Nadienne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:32 AM Response to Reply #1 |
10. Perhaps the leftist arguments need to be remade |
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JI7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:43 AM Response to Reply #10 |
12. you mean like Kerry quoting that specific biblical passage ? |
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Nadienne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:25 AM Response to Reply #12 |
20. That was good. |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:01 PM Response to Reply #10 |
36. You're right-- the nation is not as "Moderate" as it seems |
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Lexingtonian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 04:35 AM Response to Original message |
2. It would be nice to know |
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mouse7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 04:49 AM Response to Original message |
3. The left is splintered all over the place |
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GOPBasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:17 AM Response to Original message |
4. John Kerry is very left. |
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DaveSZ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:29 AM Response to Reply #4 |
5. I don't think he'd be the most left-wing President ever |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 08:47 AM Response to Reply #5 |
8. Who was more left? |
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Kanary (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:47 AM Response to Reply #4 |
13. Kerry is "very left"?? |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:52 PM Response to Reply #13 |
72. Explain to me how he was implying that FDR, JFK, LBJ were communists |
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messiah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:51 AM Response to Reply #4 |
14. Really? |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:20 AM Response to Reply #14 |
19. I'll take it |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:31 AM Response to Reply #19 |
21. IMO, Kerry is a liberal, not a leftist |
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JohnKleeb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 06:09 PM Response to Reply #19 |
46. thats what Ive been trying to say |
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REP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 08:15 AM Response to Original message |
7. Bad Examples |
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RichM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:54 AM Response to Reply #7 |
15. What an extraordinary load of bull. Thanks for the laugh, though. |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:07 PM Response to Reply #15 |
64. Their false notes to me. In fact, they're lies. |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 06:44 PM Response to Reply #64 |
100. "Most regressive histories on women's rights"??? |
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REP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 05:52 AM Response to Reply #15 |
81. So, You Can't Refute A Thing I Wrote |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 06:56 PM Response to Reply #81 |
101. Ooops, better check the map |
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govegan (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 03:06 PM Response to Reply #7 |
95. Gorging oneself on animal products is a truly restrictive diet. |
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messiah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
11. Republicans and Democrats are against the left so the media is against |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:57 AM Response to Original message |
16. "Leftist" has a lot of baggage. Issues and solutions are what count |
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RichM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 01:06 PM Response to Reply #16 |
27. Typical bourgeois excuse-making for clinging to the status quo. |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 03:22 PM Response to Reply #27 |
31. typical leftist authoritarian name-calling to disguise the lack of ideas |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 03:45 PM Response to Reply #31 |
33. I didn't see what whoever said whatever they said |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:53 PM Response to Reply #27 |
91. Wow...that's it? |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:08 AM Response to Original message |
17. Working on the Kucinich campaign |
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goodhue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 04:13 PM Response to Reply #17 |
34. Thanks, LL! |
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ACK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
18. Porgressive platform ... manifesto and campaign hints |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:54 AM Response to Reply #18 |
23. Sounds fantastic, but according to some long-time posters |
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ACK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:57 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. You joking right? Many would say the platform was too centrist. |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 03:24 PM Response to Reply #24 |
32. She must be |
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ACK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 04:23 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Yep but it leans populist progressive... |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:16 PM Response to Reply #35 |
40. I agree with you completely |
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indigobusiness (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:46 AM Response to Original message |
22. Broken News |
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RichM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 12:34 PM Response to Original message |
25. These are good questions, but would require a book to do justice to. |
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RichM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 09:35 PM Response to Reply #25 |
60. Chapter 2: Why didn't Kucinich win our primary?, & related questions. |
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info being (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:20 PM Response to Reply #60 |
88. Brilliant post. You have said what it seems cannot be said. |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 12:55 PM Response to Original message |
26. too many people are trying to answer this question |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 01:34 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. Propoganda began long before the robber barons |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:13 PM Response to Reply #29 |
38. "Modern" propaganda began with WWI & Woodrow Wilson |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:17 PM Response to Reply #38 |
41. Read about the Spanish-American War |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 07:57 PM Response to Reply #41 |
52. Further back, the Mexican War |
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sangha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:02 PM Response to Reply #52 |
68. Remember Christopher Columbus |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:51 AM Response to Reply #68 |
79. Remember Lok? He got all the cavepainters to paint only his good side |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 09:54 AM Response to Reply #79 |
84. Good one!! |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:37 PM Response to Reply #41 |
89. You are correct-- I misworded it. |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 05:16 PM Response to Reply #89 |
99. I'm glad to hear you looked into this |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 07:06 PM Response to Reply #99 |
102. Agreed-- I think it's more about the corporate control than anything |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:13 PM Response to Reply #29 |
39. we need actual historical jumping off points |
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On the Road (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 01:12 PM Response to Original message |
28. I Think People See Statist Countries |
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ACK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 01:46 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. Here is a key point... leftist themselves spent too much time |
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On the Road (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 11:02 AM Response to Reply #30 |
85. I Agree -- It Sets up a False Dichotomy |
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ACK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:00 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. Thanks I thought I would get flamed for that remark |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:10 PM Response to Reply #28 |
37. dlc = neoliberal = corporate facism |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:18 PM Response to Reply #37 |
42. Yes-- they'll use a velvet glove when they rip your heart out |
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On the Road (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 11:08 AM Response to Reply #37 |
86. I Think There's a Difference |
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no name no slogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:44 PM Response to Reply #86 |
90. Is it really better though? |
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On the Road (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 02:26 PM Response to Reply #90 |
93. That's Why I Think Some of the More Progressive DLCers |
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salin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:18 PM Response to Original message |
43. Follow the lessons from the right... 20-30 years of organizing |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 06:49 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. YES! |
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salin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 08:34 PM Response to Reply #47 |
56. Why thank you... |
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Kanary (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:39 PM Response to Reply #56 |
66. Some of us may not be around for the "long haul" |
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salin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:37 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. That is absolutely important and in need of the immediate fight |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 07:53 PM Response to Reply #43 |
51. What good is having a message if you can't get it out? |
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salin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 08:31 PM Response to Reply #51 |
55. no - they got into office |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 09:02 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. But was the discourse changed by the ideas alone... |
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salin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:29 PM Response to Reply #58 |
65. Agreed - which is why I am talking about long-term strategic efforts |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:51 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. Well, if you're like me, I don't want to give you a procrastination excuse |
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salin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:39 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. look at me... |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:52 AM Response to Reply #70 |
80. Good luck with your grant |
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Bill Todd (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 05:45 PM Response to Original message |
44. Good discussion, so for what it's worth: |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 06:05 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. socialism still provides a form to fit the function |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 07:41 PM Response to Reply #44 |
49. If you support Dean, by the general standard you are right of center |
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Bill Todd (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 09:04 PM Response to Reply #49 |
59. The most dramatic difference between Dean and Kerry |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 09:50 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. Electing people like Howard Dean is what I am all about |
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Bill Todd (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 11:44 PM Response to Reply #61 |
71. I appreciate both the toning-down and the explanation |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 01:32 AM Response to Reply #71 |
78. Yes, we've built ourselves quite a scroll bar in this thread |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 07:29 PM Response to Original message |
48. Nader and Kucinich really aren't very good spokespeople, imho. (nt) |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 07:44 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. For this post, I'm more interested in the message than the messenger (nt) |
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Ardee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 08:09 PM Response to Original message |
53. What a mess!!! |
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Nadienne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 02:20 PM Response to Reply #53 |
92. I whole-heartedly agree with your first point |
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mzmolly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 08:15 PM Response to Original message |
54. The way I see it is most people actually believe in compromise and working |
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Skeptical Democrat (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 08:40 PM Response to Original message |
57. I don't think people are against leftist values. I just think there are |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 12:14 AM Response to Reply #57 |
74. Agreed, compromise is the only way that things get done... |
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Skeptical Democrat (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 12:49 AM Response to Reply #74 |
76. I would agree the last few years have been .... difficult |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 09:56 PM Response to Original message |
62. I think it's because "leftists" or "progressives" or whatever lecture |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-01-04 10:03 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. That's not at all where I am coming from |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 03:25 PM Response to Reply #63 |
96. Apparently, in true "progressive" tradition, you've been unclear. |
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Ardee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 04:58 PM Response to Reply #96 |
98. limited experience tends toward limited understanding |
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Ardee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 07:21 PM Response to Reply #98 |
103. To late to edit so...... |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 12:23 AM Response to Reply #62 |
75. Thank you! |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 03:26 PM Response to Reply #75 |
97. You're welcome. |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 12:12 AM Response to Original message |
73. America doesn't want socialism |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 12:58 AM Response to Reply #73 |
77. I shouldn't have included Nader and Kucinich in the post |
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REP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 06:01 AM Response to Reply #77 |
82. Heh |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 06:16 AM Response to Reply #73 |
83. america doesn't want socialism |
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nolabels (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-02-04 02:46 PM Response to Original message |
94. Yes it is, so what you going to do about it? |
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