Discuss: My Old Friend in Austin Called in Panic "Congressional Bail-Out Vote is a Trap for Obama."

[David Zephyr]

"David, you've got to get the word out. The congressional vote to bail out the banks is a Rovian trap. John McCain will, at the last moment, vote against it to show he's a maverick and against government awarding waste and bad judgment!"

This was the message on my cell phone this morning from my childhood buddy who called this morning in a panic from Austin where he has lived for the last 30 years after graduating from U.T.

He knows that I was a voting member of the Los Angeles Democratic Party Central Committee for years and active for decades in the California Democratic Party and that I am active on many progressive blogs.

Now, a few hours after his message, I am wondering myself: McCain could pull a fast one on Obama, just like he did with Palin, and right before the Friday night debate on this "emergency".

The timing of the "emergency" certainly is striking and as much as the financial crisis seems real as hell to me (I am an investor and watch the market throughout the day, every day and have for years), I still have to tell you: I have a sinking feeling that my dear friend, James, just may be right.

Americans were told there would be mushroom clouds over American cities if we didn't go to war with Iraq. Now we are being scared shitless all over again to vote One Trillion Dollars of tax monies and to empower the Sec. of Treasury with powers like the head of the Homeland Defense Department.

And the rush to make this judgment call sure seems eerie in that it reminds me of the Iraqi War Resolution all over again that sucked in a lot of Democrats.

I don't know what to think now. What do you think?

[BonnieJW]

1. I think if the bill contains the points Obama

mentioned during his presser, he should vote on it. He only wants to make available only an amount to keep the country functioning, not the whole $700b.

[David Zephyr]

2. Obama really has to be careful. And the timing is right before the first debate.

I don't like this at all. My friend has made me see what I hadn't seen.

McCain will do anything, say anything to get elected.

[Johonny]

12. I'm with you

It took 7 years to get into the economic mess. I think congress needs to take more time before trying to dig us out.

[1corona4u]

13. CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!!!!

panic much? :eyes:

[flpoljunkie]

55. Obama indicated today in his press conference that he would not be voting--unless his vote needed

I do think the Democrats are in line with what he has indicated would be required for him to support a bailout.

You have to ask yourself why the Bush administration waited until the last minute to tell us the sky will fall if we do not pass their bailout bill immediately.

Is there anything else Bush can do to destroy this country before he goes out the door?

Don't answer that!

[Booster]

3. I would imagine Obama's camp has either heard of this already

and Obama will be on his toes for it. Why didn't your "friend" contact the Obama campaign with this information?

[David Zephyr]

15. Let's hope you are right.

My friend is retired and also said he was calling his Texas Democratic congressional representatives.

It doesn't hurt for us to consider this.

His concerns blindsided me.

[GrizzlyMan]

43. Oh....I don't see how it should "blind side" anyone

No offense to your friend, but all of this is rather obvious. I thought of it last week, then realized that if I'm thinking of it, more than likely the political PROS at the Obama team have already thought of it as well.

[gabby garcia]

4. whatever McCain's response to the bailout..

and we will find out this afternoon I gather, you can be sure it will not be based on what is best for our country, but rather what is best for John McCain.

end of story.

[David Zephyr]

18. Remember: McCain had two ads ready for Obama visiting or not visitng troops in Germany.

McCain is ready to pounce on Obama on this. I think my friend is on to something.

It may not be a set-up by Rove, but damn! We've been down this path before with the emergency of the IWR.

[Enrique]

5. it would be seen as another gimmick

McCain has been exposed as being without principle.

[ellacott]

6. I heard someone say the same thing on the radio today

I can't remember which show it was. I think it was Thom Hartmann. I check his archives.

[tabatha]

21. Yes, by Bernie Sanders.

[ellacott]

27. I thought it was him

I didn't want to put his name out there in case I was wrong. Thomm did say he would have that interview up at AAR so others can hear it.

[David Zephyr]

29. Thanks tabatha!

I trust Bernie Sanders.

It does look like Democrats are being set up to vote for Bush's bailout while the GOP will will vote against it and look like heroes to the American public just before the election, just before Obama's debate.

October Surprise.

[katty]

51. bernie sanders-thom hartmann program

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. I stopped listening at "Panic"

:eyes:

[tabatha]

23. dumb.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. this is no time for self-description!

[tabatha]

61. fail.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. As I said...

[ReadTomPaine]

8. Have you seen what Gingrich has said about the bailout? There might be something to this.

Gingrich urges vote against 'stupid' Paulson plan

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich said Tuesday that any lawmaker who votes for the Bush administration's $700 billion bailout package, which he called a dead loser, will face defeat in November.

Gingrich (R-Ga.) said he thinks Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is trying to scare lawmakers into passing the bailout plan quickly and without thorough study.

"I think what Paulson hopes to do is say, ‘If you don’t do exactly what I want you to do, the whole world’s going to collapse on Tuesday’," Gingrich said.

The former Speaker, talking to reporters at a lunch, added that he expects Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) to back the plan. He predicted that, if Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) ends up opposing the administration proposal, there will be an overnight "emergence of a McCain/reform wing of the Republican Party."

Gingrich said that occurrence would turn the election on its head, with Republicans running ads that feature Obama with President Bush on the same team in pushing for a "nightmare" bailout plan.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gingrich-urges-vote-against-stupid-paulson-plan-2008-09-23.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4068710

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. To my utter shock, Senator Shelby is also against this bailout

with no oversight review or restrictions.

[ReadTomPaine]

14. Interesting.. I'd love to read this...

do you have a link handy?

Thanks!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. I watched a bit of the hearing with Paulson this morning.

Dodd made an impassioned opening speech, followed by Shelby who seemed to be speaking out against the bailout, implying that the plan is reckless because there's no review or oversight. His remarks were followed by Tim Johnson who almost made me cry. His illness caused great damage to his speech and he could barely get some words out. But he got through it bravely.

[ReadTomPaine]

33. Thanks for this, LS! n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. Yes! Thank God for C-Span. Otherwise we would never get what's really going on.

[ellacott]

16. That's because this isn't something true conservatives are comfortable with

What is happening is neoconservative.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. Absolutely! Even Newt Gingrich is against this plan.

[David Zephyr]

20. Wow! Newt is not acting alone. Thanks for the link and post.

The Republican fuckers are setting up the Democrats to "act responsibly" and then vote against the bill and then rail against the Democrats for the next five weeks.

This is the October Surprise.

[ReadTomPaine]

25. It is certainly an interesting development and bears close watch.

I was surprised to read this today, myself. Gingrich is a bastard but he's also a political knife fighter of the first order.

[David Zephyr]

28. GOP administration is suckering Dems to vote for a bailout that Congressional GOP will oppose.

Liberal_Stalwart71 points out that Senator Shelby is against it, too.

This is the October Surprise to save the Republicans in Congress from losing more seats and to help that bastard McCain look like he's against government waste.

Democrats are being set up.

[debbierlus]

44. They absolutely woud do this - however, I don't think the plan will go through

Keep calling Congress and at the very least, push for a delay.

The longer this is exposed to daylight, the greater chance it will not ever come about.

Keep calling, keep emailing, keep writing.

[katty]

52. this has the rover bush gang written all over it

[Overseas]

9. I've heard that too. So I wrote my rep not to pass it without conditions.

NO BAILOUT WITHOUT CONDITIONS !! Hope the Democrats are fully aware of these potential scenarios and don't get used again.

And if McSame does that kind of Rovian switcheroo, we will need extra ad money to roll out tons of ads that show Phil Gramm and his puppet Johnny McSame pushing deregulation. Charts of the money lost from Bush tax cuts to the super-rich, favored by his chosen successor Johnny McSame.

And an ad or two about this being Johnny's second bailout.<<Edited to add: He was the Bailout Pioneer, with the S&L debacle, as one of the Keating 5!>> The first one seems like chump change by comparison. We weren't sure if Johnny learned anything from his first bailout. He had been talking deregulation for years after that and chummed up with Phil Gramm and kept doing so. Even a mere week before the big bailout, Johnny thought the fundamentals of his deregulated economy were just fine.

But suddenly, he's got religion and needs votes desperately, so he switched his vote. Is that the kind of change you can believe in?

[samuraiguppy]

10. are any of the 3 senators who are

running actually going to show up for the vote? I mean they are pretty busy on the campaign trail.....

[avaistheone1]

This bailout is designed to put McCain in office.

Thom Hartmann as well as my boyfriend have both been making this assertion. This is just a band-aid until things really fall apart a few months from now AFTER the elections. THIS IS NOT THE ONLY BAILOUT OF THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY THAT IS COMING AND IT IS NOT THE LAST ONE. THE BIG ONE COMES IN A FEW MONTHS.

[David Zephyr]

26. This is the OCTOBER SURPRISE!

And it's another Iraqi War Resolution with all the trappings of "emergency" and act now or we will all perish.

Meanwhile, DU'ers are posting that Newt is telling Rebublicans to vote against it and Republican Senator Shelby is going to vote against it.

Why is it that the "emergency" is being touted by a Republican administration to get Democrats to vote an unprecedented bail-out while the Republicans in Congress will vote against it?

My friend, James, is on to something and we are being set up.

[avaistheone1]

38. I t may be an Iraqi War Resolution, but it is rumored to be much much bigger than that

the finanical industry is going to ask for 100 trillion bailout from derivatives - which is largely the GDP for all of the world.

[David Zephyr]

58. But is the "urgency" to vote immediately as the IWR was run through real?

Congress is being told to vote with another gun to their heads.

[scheming daemons]

17. Wall Street wants a bailout.... if McCain bucks Wall Street, his campaign is dead

D-E-A-D.


Where do you think his money comes from?

[debbierlus]

45. He wouldn't be 'bucking' Wall Street. He would be making a political play

That THEY orchestrated.

Write Obama.

[cottonseed]

19. It is a trap and that's exactly what he/they(Rs) are going to do.

It's been talked about on atleast 3 major blogs yesterday. They're going to dump this on Bush/Pelosi Washington and McCain and most Republicans are going to come away as "fiscal conservatives".

[David Zephyr]

31. Bingo.

And all right before the debate and the election.

[Karenina]

46. Cash for trash should NOT come up for a vote before AUDITS

and a TRANSPARENT accounting are presented to taxpayers. That said, if it is delayed, a few calls will be made and another CATASTROPHE will hit the tickers. If it's approved, Amis, who are even as I type this are toast, will be BURNT TOAST. Things ain't looking too pretty...

[OwnedByFerrets]

22. I said this yesterday and Thom Hartmann backed it up today on

his show.

www.wearableartnow.com

[grantcart]

30. If he opposes it and the economy tanks he is finished

If he insists on principle points - especially getting good value for the assets bought there should be little down side.



The upside and it is a huge upside = everyone knows that the problem is Republican born and bred. He will get a pass on anything that happens the first 9 months of his administration.


What would have been a real disaster is if we needed to do this on Feb 5th.

[a kennedy]

36. This was talked about on Ed Schultz too.....

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: I'm just so tense, about everything.......

[liberalmuse]

37. I hope Obama has called Reid and Pelosi...

This is looking like a set up the more I read about it and listen to who is saying what. I believe Sanders is right. This is the October surprise. Or one of them.

[TheKentuckian]

39. They've very possibly working along these lines

and like the VP selection, McCain is probably going to try to counter program, which is why he damn well must be pinned down and not allowed to turn this into a game.

[Oak2004]

40. Frankly I think this "bailout" is a bailout of the Bush Administration:

700 billion is just about enough to keep the Ponzi scheme going till February or so. It's not even close to being enough to bail out the financial system -- there isn't enough wealth on this planet to do that. You could empty out each and every one of our pockets, penny jars, and dig under every couch cushion, and we'd still be far short of the one quadrillion dollars of funny money in the system.

700 billion bails out Bush. Then the big collapse happens on the Democrats' watch.

[avaistheone1]

56. Yup. That is what Thom Hartmann said too.

[ProSense]

41. It's not going to work

The GOP's Bottomless Crack Pipe .

Besides, most Americans are against the bailout.

Dodd's bill, which lobbyists are trying to kill.

[debbierlus]

42. Bernie Sanders and Thom Hartmann said the EXACT same thing - here is the Oct Surprise

I wrote this to the Obama campaign:

If you don't STRONGLY OPPOSE this Bail-Out, you may lose
this election. Please read and consider:

The proposed Bush bail-out is a Trash for Cash deal that provides no real relief and hands unprecedented power to the executive branch.

It must be rejected outright and an entirely different economic rescue for TAXPAYERS and HOME OWNERS must be drafted. You want to win this election. Fight this - and fight it HARD. The American people are furious, and if you concede this issue, you may concede the election. McCain will play a bait and switch game of oppossing the legislation and put the onus on the democratic leaders (who control the House & Senate) for accepting this piece of crap. And, then, in ironies of ironies, he will have the sheer audacity to point to you and hang the albatross of this financial scam around your neck and hang you by it.

You have to be prepared to lead now. You have to fight this and come out strong. The American people aren't going to believe the President if he tries to blame the democrats for blocking it, but they will blame you, if you don't act to stop it. McCain will act the 'maverick' opposition, and the people with no one left to blame and most with little understanding of economic history, they will turn against you.

Please Sen Obama. Please fight for us. We have had so little representation for so long. We have had to scream our throats raw while our leaders ignore us. We need you, NOW.

Thank you.

[David Zephyr]

59. The American people are going to hate the bail out and those that did the bailing.

A backlash will come.

[maxrandb]

47. Not to over-simplify, but

isn't the roll call vote alphabetically. If that's the case, McCain will vote, before Obama.

Unless he weasles and votes "present", and then that would appear pretty damn weasily.

[stillcool]

54. The Illinois State Senate..

uses the "Present Vote". The United States Congress does not. I'm surprised that people are still unaware of what the Present Vote means in Illinois.

The “present” vote in Illinois is sometimes cast by state lawmakers with a conflict of interest who would rather not weigh in on an issue. Other times, members use the option to object to certain parts of a bill, even though they may agree with its overall purpose.

‘Present’ Perfect
By ABNER J. MIKVA
Published: February 16, 200
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/opinion/16mikva.html?ex=1360818000&en=9417ee6115534086&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Unlike Congress and the legislatures of most other states, each chamber of the Illinois Legislature requires a “constitutional majority” to pass a bill. The state Senate has 59 members, so it takes 30 affirmative votes. This makes a “present” vote the same as a no. If a bill receives 29 votes, but the rest of the senators vote “present,” it fails.

In Congress, in contrast, a bill can pass in either the House or the Senate as long as more people vote for it than against it. If 10 people vote in favor and nine against, and the rest either vote “present” or don’t vote at all, the bill passes. It can actually pass with just one vote, as long as no one votes no.

In the Illinois Senate, there can be strategic reasons for voting “present” rather than simply no. A member might approve the intent of legislation, but not its scope or the way it has been drafted. A “present” vote can send a signal to a bill’s sponsors that the legislator might support an amended version. Voting “present” can also be a way to exercise fiscal restraint, without opposing the subject of the bill.

[ContinentalOp]

48. If Obama votes for this he will have screwed up royally.

I certainly hope he's smarter than that.

[cottonseed]

53. Everyone needs to agree before a vote is even cast.

I don't know if there's a technical term from this, but if this thing is voted on and passed, before a single vote is cast I want an assurance that both Democrats and Republicans will be voting for this in a bipartisan manner. There is NO WAY dems should hang themselves in order to fix the Bush and Republican party's f*ck up!

[onenote]

49. Wrong. I'll donate $50 to DU if McCain votes against the bailout plan

[Bucky]

50. Your friend wanted you to get the word out... so you posted it on DU?

Some friend.

[David Zephyr]

57. LOL!

You have such a charming personality. I've called the offices Boxer and Feinstein and local Democratic representatives here in SoCal this morning and early afternoon expressing my skepticism about the "emergency" in this emergency.

My OP's first word was "discuss". Asking others if they are hearing the same thing is a good thing.

But dig away. It's your greatest charm. James is reading the thread and just emailed me "some friend". LOL.

[windbreeze]

60. Does anyone remember a few months ago, when the Congress

had a closed door session...is there any way for us to know what was discussed? The economy perhaps? Possible economic collapse? Surely someone had an indication that things were this bad, long before this..wb

[Nikki Stone1]

63. K & R

K

[AnnieBW]

64. Chris Dodd was one of Barack's earliest supporters

He basically gave his endorsement to Obama when he dropped out of the Presidential race. He's got Barack's back on this one. The Dems ain't buying any of Bush's crap anymore, and it sounds like the Repubs aren't, either.