Reply #26: You're right about that, Underpants - It can be hard to find the facts. [View All]

[Lasher]

It is difficult to imagine how honest debate could occur without understanding about how many illegal/undocumented aliens there are living in the US and where they came from.

I have derived the following information from a study by the Office of Policy and Planning of the US Immigration and Naturalization Service. There were about 7 million foreign-born unauthorized residents (AKA illegal aliens) living in America as of 2000. This was twice as many as there were in 1990. Assuming these estimates are accurate and that the rate of growth has remained the same, there are about 12 million living in the US today.

Mexico accounted for 58% of the total unauthorized resident population in 1990 and nearly 69% in January 2000.

NorthernSpy was correct to admonish you for having used data about the total immigrant population (legal and illegal) to make a point about unauthorized residents only. In addition to that I find two statements problematic:

According to the US Social Security Administration 75% pay payroll taxes and will contribute $6-7 BILLION in Social Security funds that they will never claim.

You are stating as fact something that neither you nor the Social Security Administration could know for certain. As a matter of fact, your claim is fallacious.

Social Security permits foreign nationals to work many years illegally with one or more fraudulently obtained Social Security numbers, acquire legal status (e.g. through an amnesty or marriage to a U.S. citizen), obtain a valid SSN, and then request that his or her prior earnings credits be moved to the new number. The illegal’s slate is wiped clean and all the years worked under one or more fraudulent numbers and/or identities are counted toward the 10 years it takes to vest for full Social Security benefits based upon one’s earning history. Giving 12 million or so unauthorized residents some kind of legal status would have a big impact on the solvency of Social Security.

Currently most aliens who never gain legal status are unable to claim Social Security benefits in the United States, even if they can prove they worked for the 40 quarters needed to vest. But until recently they could claim their benefits when they returned to their home country—because they were no longer illegally present in the United States. Mexicans will again be able to claim benefits in such cases, however, if the pending US - Mexican Social Security Totalization agreement is passed. I believe it will be. Junior only needs to submit the measure to Congress. If no action is taken there within 90 working days to block it the treaty becomes operative.

To the extent that welfare use by immigrants is a problem, this can be addressed by restricting the welfare eligibility of immigrants, not by keeping immigrants out.

The Cato Institute's dismissal of this problem is simplistic at best. All my life I have seen welfare abuse going on and no one has come up with a good solution for it so far. Rightwing organizations are in favor of eliminating our social programs entirely, to let the poor fend for themselves. I don't consider that a good solution.

I will give you credit for having made an apparent effort to create a middle ground for discussion on this polarizing topic. Maybe we can all learn something here.