Reply #23: Well, angry girl, you kind of miss the point. There are a lot of people [View All]

[Peace Patriot]

in the military with the notion that what they are there for is to defend their country. They are willing to put themselves at risk and to die for what they believe our country to be--for their ideals of democracy and freedom. You may think it's a delusion--and when our troops are used to fight the wars of the rich, as in Vietnam and Iraq, and have nothing whatever to do with defending our country against attack, it does indeed begin to look like a cruel delusion--but I don't think that you should dis those troops and their beliefs--nor should you scoff at the circumstances that prompt young people to join the military out of hope for a steady job, job training and an education--people who come from desperate circumstances and don't seem to have other choices. And probably a lot of these motives are mixed up together.

One thing is for sure: those who join the military really have to ask themselves what they would die for, and what they would kill for, whereas most of us never face that choice. It is not all that easy a choice, when you think about it. They may get to that moment of choice unwittingly--or with mixed motives--but there it is: as stark as it can be. Would you die for your country? Would you die for the freedom of those who remain alive, and for future generations? ARE you risking death and killing others for that purpose? Or have you been lied to? Is it possible to free anybody, or to protect anything good, by violence?

I don't agree with war or killing of any kind. I think violence ALWAYS breeds more violence. That's my philosophy. So I disagree with our even having a military--and most certainly object to our pigsty of a military budget, and to the atrocious uses that all this is being put to, at present. But I think it's too easy just to reject soldiers and peoples' choices of that life. And I can imagine philosophy coming up against certain realities, and reality and my own humanness taking over.

What if I saw someone killing a child, or some other innocent victim? If I had the power, would I kill to stop it? I don't really know. If I had been in a position to kill Hitler, prior to his worst atrocities, would I have done so? I don't know. If I had been a Vietnamese, assaulted by two western imperialist armies--France, and then the U.S.--would I have taken up arms to defend my country's independence? Again, I don't really know if my philosophy would hold up in those circumstances.

I DO think that it is vital that young people understand the full measure of what they are getting into, in the military. I know they are lied to by recruiters, and that there are immense hidden dangers, not just being shot or blown up, but, now, the long term impacts of depleted uranium; the lack of proper health care for veterans should they become wounded or sick; the terrible repeat tours of duty in Iraq, because the Bush Cartel doesn't have enough "cannon fodder." And so on. It is unconscionable that young people are being lied to about these things. IF we are a democracy, and IF our country needs people to kill others and to face death to defend it from attack, the recruitment of those defenders should be done with EYES OPEN, with COMPLETE HONESTY. What is happening now is so dishonest and so undemocratic! It is little more than enticement to slavery.

I think an argument can be made for fighting oppression with violence in certain circumstances. But whatever I think of those arguments, I am in no position to judge people who fight and kill, and are willing to die, for what *I* would consider to be a just cause. (I'm thinking right now of the Spanish Civil War, actually.)

Anyway, I'm just saying, there are no easy answers. And I will never forget something Martin Luther King said, that he would rather recruit a street fighter to come over to his side, and learn non-violence, than recruit someone who had never known violence, who had no idea how to defend themselves or others, and who wouldn't put themselves physically on the line for any reason.

He was talking about courage, and how it manifests. And I think he had a point. If you are never tested on the matter of physical violence, how do you really know what you believe or would do?

Of course, many non-violent civil disobedience protesters are so tested. You don't have to COMMIT violence to truly test the limits of a non-violent philosophy. I just think that many soldiers, especially the young, are testing themselves, and many do come up against these profound questions, despite all the propaganda. Who are they? What do they really believe? It's not a test I would deliberately put anyone to. But I respect their personal journeys, and hope that those who survive can overcome the great obstacles to being a good human being that the military and the war present them with. They are truly in a desperate and terrible situation.