Reply #72: Do you think pain exists outside of our imagination? If so, where does it exist? [View All]

[Jim__]

I think pain itself, only exists in our mind (I'm using mind as synonymous with imagination). But, the cause of pain is often outside of our mind, for instance, a cracked bone. I'm not clear what you mean when you classify pain as not imaginary. Do you mean that pain has a cause external to our imagination? Or, do you mean that the feeling of pain exists outside of our imagination.

I don't think the government is buildings, I think it's laws.

I agree that the government is, in part, laws. But, I think there are other things besides laws. If government laws have any meaning there must be some sort of enforcement of the laws. The methods of enforcement are also part of government. The laws must be written down or people will not agree on what they are. These written laws and these methods of enforcement are part of government that exist outside of the imagination. I agree that the combination of writings and enforcements as government is a mental construct. My argument is that there are objects external to the imagination that are components of government.

But, for now, let's say the laws are not written down. They're known through common understanding. That understanding has to be passed on to young children. The methods that are used to pass that understanding to the children are overt methods that exist outside of the imagination. So, again, I see components of government that are external to the imagination.

One more thing, when you say that government exists only in our imagination, the "our" has to be collective. A government that exists only in my imagination, is not really a government. So, some form of agreement must exist, must have somehow been overtly agreed upon, outside of our imagination for the government to have any real meaning.

My point is that there has to be more to government than just laws, that at least some aspects of this "more" exists outside of our imagination; although I agree that the compound form of all these aspects that we refer to as government may just exist in our imagination.