Reply #102: Other failures in your argument. [View All]

[kwassa]

you said:

Wiki quote: "By 1810, 4 percent of blacks in the South (10 percent in the Upper South), and 75 percent of blacks in the North were free. On the eve of the American Civil War, 10 percent of African Americans nationwide, close to half a million people, were free.<5>"

Once again, there is an obvious difference in the legal and social experience in being black from place to place, and from time to time.

So, what I would like to ask is... Is that difference significant? Is the whole issue, the whole of "white society", as well as the whole of "black society" (to arbitrarily use the term that my step father used), to be judged solely upon the criteria of the worst case scenario?

Except for one over-riding historical fact: they were all subject to racism and segregation, free or not, everywhere in this country. What I presented to you was not the worst-case scenario, but was the status quo, and still is for many African-Americans. The current problems with racism and defacto segregation have long historical roots. They haven't suddenly vanished with the election of Obama.

And so... I would argue... not only have "the considerations of "black" ... varied, both in law and in popular perception, depending upon place and time."... but I would now have to argue that, even according to the standards proposed by your man, F James Davis, now might be one of those times in which considerations of "black" are doing some variegating.

And, in as much as even F James Davis' conclusions of implications of "black" vs. other "visibly non-caucasoid minorities" distinctions have now been undermined, in at least one VERY SIGNIFICANT CASE... do you think it might be time to reconsider some of the old notions of inter-racial/inter-ethnic dynamics?

Or... do you still subscribe to the "one drop rule", kwassa?

I never did subscribe to the rule, I merely pointed out the existence of it, which is a well-established historical fact. If you would like, I can bury you in other references about the history of racism in America, though I doubt you would read them, history is not your thing. The one-drop rule is only one aspect of racial discrimination in America.

I don't disagree that ideas about "what is black" are variegating, only that these ideas have not gotten very far yet. Your notion that Obama could choose to see himself as white was stunning in it's naivete. If he were just an individual on the street, as he once was, every white person and probably every black person would see him as a black individual. That is the way this country rolls.