Reply #106: I am actually fixating on the point of there being differences... [View All]

[LooseWilly]

in order to try to get you to actually specify the terms that you are using. Using generalized terms like "I know racism exists" doesn't allow for any dialogue. I'm not for a second trying to say that racism doesn't exist. I'm trying to say that there are degrees and I'm trying to get you to give me something concrete to deal with when you make assertions like "if you have black ancestry, then you are considered black".

As you point out, California doesn't have the entrenched racist traditions of the East... which makes it hard to know what you really mean when you say "you are considered black". If you mean it solely in context of where one is when one is "being considered black" then it becomes so abstract that it is, once again, impossible to have any dialogue.

I realize that many African-Americans came to Oakland to work in the shipyards and such like during the war. Many of them still have remnants of those Southern drawls... I realize that there were racist housing covenants. I realize that there was racism...

That the black population was only 3% clearly made it easier for the white folk at the time to get along... that was and still is a characteristic of white, or any other, folk... that they don't mind "the other" as long as it only comes along in small doses.
The "Wiki-stew", as you call it, seems to have been based on a documentary which interviewed people about their experiences during WWII.

You, once again, in saying "your Wiki-stew ... was clearly false", seem to be dismissing the assertion, again apparently based on the first hand interviews in the PBS documentary, that white laborers, as well as black, came to Oakland to work in the shipyards and whatnot... and in the same 3 word statement you casually dismiss the notion that the racist housing covenants and redlining might have been notions brought to the area by those white laborers from Jim Crow portions of the country... who, assuming they came as the Wiki suggests they did, would probably have been eager to employ the Jim Crow style laws in California just as they had back in the South, to ensure themselves better access to... well, everything.

The main point that I have been trying to make is that you consistently make these sorts of judgements based on some set of assumptions that you don't seem to feel obligated to share with those with whom you are speaking. Why is the Wiki attribution of the change in Oakland covenant practices "clearly" not the result of values brought with white laborer immigrants?

You've judged me, Obama, and every black person, and every white person in the country... based upon some set of assumptions that you will not deign to share by any other means than the phrase "thats how the country rolls".

As long as you continue to make judgements based on nothing more than your assurances that "you've studied the subject", and the implication that I am supposed to acknowledge that that means you know what you are talking about (talk about "white privilege")... I will continue to question the basis for the judgements and sweeping generalizations that you seem to believe should be self-evident, but which are not.

And if my point seems to be meandering... that is only because you keep meandering from point to point and I am left to respond to whatever unsupported judgements you make.

If all you are trying to say is "racism exists", then just say it already. That I don't disagree with.