Reply #77: and thanks again... [View All]

[whalerider55]

I appreciate all the research you are doing. however, my central point is this.

leaders lead.

despite his conversation with Ed Schultz, you have still presented no evidence that Kerry initiated any legal action at all re:ohio. he joined a suit already filed. he may want to revise history, and as painful as that history is, i don't blame him for that. but claiming brought a couple of lawsuits is not the same as joining them a month after they've been filed. as i recall, the $113,000 needed to file the green/lib suit was raised by the community, and not a dime from the kerry 10 mil warchest.


"Arnebeck and Fitrakis began compiling evidence for a lawsuit against Ohio election officials following reports from voters that Election Day procedures had been mishandled and e-voting machines were malfunctioning. So far, the lawsuit hinges partly upon analysis of poll records from precincts where Kerry won fewer votes than a Democrat challenger to a conservative state Supreme Court justice."

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1269



"Monday, July 24, 2006

The lawyers for Green presidential candidate David Cobb and Libertarian presidential candidate Michael Badnarik, along with Kerry-Edwards 2004 have added election tampering to a civil suit filed against the state of Ohio over problems with the state's recount, RAW STORY has learned.

The suit, detailed here, alleges that a manufacturer of voting machines, Triad Election Systems, which serves 43 counties in the state, is tampering with the recount. It is unclear exactly what recourse the plaintiffs' seek; the filing adds on to an original suit to have the recount take place before Ohio electors meet, which failed in the courts. Green Party spokesman Blair Bobier said the party hoped to reform the recount process and suggested Ohio should secure or impound voting machines.



http://rawstory.com/exclusives/kerry_ohio_suit2_1215.php


"AP , COLUMBUS, OHIO
Saturday, Dec 04, 2004,Page 7

"Senator John Kerry's campaign has joined a lawsuit by third-party presidential candidates seeking a recount in Ohio. A lawyer for the campaign said on Thursday the campaign does not question the Democrat's loss but wants any counting to take place statewide.

(a bold move on Kerry/Edwards part... we don't question the loss, we just think enough votes to tip the balance may have been missed)

Kerry's campaign this week joined the suit filed by Green and Libertarian party candidates seeking a recount of the vote in Delaware County. A judge in that county issued a restraining order blocking that request, but the order expired on Thursday. A hearing was set in federal court in Columbus for yesterday on the recount request.

"The Kerry-Edwards campaign felt it had to intervene," said Daniel Hoffheimer, a Cincinnati lawyer who represents the campaign in Ohio. "We did not want a recount to go forward if it only was 87 counties."

The two minor parties also have asked for a statewide recount, but a judge ruled that cannot begin until Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell certifies the vote, likely on Monday. The parties say they have raised the US$113,600 fee the state requires to conduct the recount.

The Kerry campaign isn't disputing the outcome of President George W. Bush's Nov. 2 victory in Ohio -- a 136,000-vote margin, based on unofficial results -- but wants to make sure any recount is "done accurately and completely," Hoffheimer said."


As for Kennedy's piece, which is commendable, he missed a very important point.

"Litigating the Election
By Marjorie Cohn
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Monday 22 November 2004

On Election Day, Sarah White filed a class action against Blackwell and the Board of Elections of Lucas County, claiming they violated the Help America Vote Act, passed in the wake of the 2000 election debacle, that gives voters in federal elections a right to cast provisional ballots. White claimed that although she requested an absentee ballot one month before the election, she never received one. Blackwell ruled that persons who had requested, but not received their absentee ballots, would not be permitted to cast a provisional ballot. U.S. District Judge David A. Katz, however, ordered that "the Board of Elections of Lucas County shall immediately advise all precincts to issue provisional ballots to those voters who appear at the voting place and assert their eligibility to vote, including that the voter is a registered voter in the precinct in which he or she desires to vote, and that the voter is eligible to vote in an election for Federal office."

Last week, the Ohio Election Protection Coalition held public hearings in Columbus. Extensive sworn and written testimony of Ohio voters, precinct judges, poll workers, legal observers, and party challengers revealed a widespread and concerted effort by Blackwell to deny primarily African-American and young voters the right to cast their ballots within a reasonable time. Precincts were deprived of adequate numbers of voting machines, so voters waited in lines from 2-7 hours, even though 68 electronic voting machines remained in storage and were never used on Election Day. Blackwell, who oversaw the election in Ohio, also served as co-chair of the Ohio Bush-Cheney reelection campaign. Lawyers for the Ohio Election Protection Coalition plan to use the testimony from the Columbus hearings to challenge the results of Ohio's presidential vote in the state Supreme Court next week."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112204A.shtml


The White Lawsuit was filed on election day, in the midst of what was happening- the problems were self-evident, Kerry's people on the ground in ohio saw them, his lawyers had to have seen them; there were kerry pollwatchers everywhere. They were even carried, to a surprising extent, in the MSM. so kennedy's claim that there was no evidence on the morning of the 3rd to possibly overturn the election, the basis on which Kerry made his lamentable decision, misses the lawsuit filed while the problems were actually occuring.


The basis for contesting; or at least not conceding was there and self-evident; the conyers commission merely validated what was known on election day.

So despite hindsight, i have ended up believing that Kerry's decision to concede was political, not moral;not based on the evidence (admittedly confusing but certainly massive, as even Kennedy revealed). it was made with an eye on the future, not the present. Yes, the majority may require an investigation, but in my own experience as a fitful student of the alinsky school of community organizing, there are ways to move the question to the community.

What Kerry did, knowingly, I think, although I am willing to consider he did it in ignorance, was cut the legs out from any real challenge to what was a deeply flawed, and ultimately illegal effort to deprive voters of their right to vote.

f*ck the presidency. he knew people were being screwed out of their right to vote, and he shut it down. that is why what edwards said that night, the 2nd, in his brief appearance in front of the crowd, buoyed me.

it was always about the vote. the vote. and that is why i find kerry's actions sad, and lacking in leadership. perhaps he was unprepared for such blatant and massive fraud, although after '00 that doesn't speak well of kerry and his advisors... maybe they weren't ready for prime time.

but the recorded history of those moments don't offer much refuge for Kerry if his argument was we have nothing to hang our hats on. the polls hadn't closed, and there was already a class action lawsuit filed. i simply don't believe, and hope i have offered evidence that proves, that this is not just an effort to revise history to cast aspersions or assert a hazy claim.

i don't really want to go quote for quote here; i simply want to see the lessons learned manual. kerry can write the forward to it if he wants, but as far as presidential elections going forward, he's a footnote to me.

whalerider
undecided, but optimistic the dems have more than a few dogs in this hunt