Reply #21: Thanks lynn for having deleted you first attempt at this thread. [View All]

[Roho]

I'm not sure how you did it or if it was even you that did it, but I will assume you have some clout here if you can have a thread deleted and repost pretty much the same thing with only slightly better documentation.

Having said that I still need to take issue with your premise that Iraqi women can now be stoned.

Let me first say that Bush has monumentally screwed up Iraq and brought extreme suffering to the Iraqi people for no other reason than ignorance, greed, and American global hegemony.

Before going through your links I'd also like to agree that the plight of women in Iraq has indeed gotten much worse than before the invasion. However, the troubles Iraqi women face today are REAL and IMMEDIATE life and death issues and not a hypothetical interpretation of shari'a that YOUR links admit is anything but decided.

Issues facing Iraqi women today include lack of food, electricity to store food, clean water, and medicines for their children.

Let's look at your links for a minute ignoring for sake of argument that two of your link are from the globalist Council on Foreign Relations, and one from a christian site run by Freedom House, another globalist org whose board is stacked with alumni from such venerable institutions like the CFR, The weekly standard, and the American enterprise institute.

from the christian site first...

"Understanding what the Iraqis have produced requires a close reading of dense texts. Article 2 states that "Islam is the official religion of the state." This in itself need not create problems. Many states, including established democracies in Europe, have state religions, and the practice is not held to be in violation of international human-rights standards."

Now from this first CFR link...

"These criticisms are not without merit, and the ambiguity of the new constitution is a cause for concern. The centrality of Islamic law in the document, however, does not necessarily mean trouble for Iraqi women. In fact, sharia is open to a wide range of understanding, and across the Islamic world today, progressive Muslims are seeking to reinterpret its rules to accommodate a modern role for women."

Finally, from the second CFR link...

Women, Islam, and the New Iraq
by Isobel Coleman
Although questions of implementation remain, the new Iraqi constitution makes Islam the law of the land. This need not mean trouble for Iraq's women, however. Sharia is open to a wide range of interpretations, some quite egalitarian. If Washington still hopes for a liberal order in Iraq, it should start working with progressive Muslim scholars to advance women's rights through religious channels.

The last one is troubling because you quote only the first sentence of the article when the very next line casts severe doubt on the premise of this thread.

Taken together your links paint a picture that stands in stark contrast to your assertion that women can NOW be stoned to death.

What they do say is that sharia itself does not equal the stoning of women. Instead they suggest that NOW is the time for progressive activist to work WITH the religious leaders in Iraq to create a modern model for the rest of the islamic world to follow if successfully implemented.

Now let's talk about a few misconceptions.

Saddam didn't force secularism on a country hell bent to return to the stone ages (no pun). Saddam didn't force women to attend university or hold position of respect and authority. These are things the Iraqi people worked hard to achieve and maintain under Saddam.

We all know Bush's "stand up to stand down" policy is horse shit and evidence of that can be seen in the abc reporter getting wounded while on a carefully arranged pr stunt leading up to the SOTU. The Iraqis can barely control the trucks they drive never mind police the country.

So here lies another problem with your assertion. The American military is pissed off that they are acting like police instead of soldiers. For sharia to be implemented to the extent that women start getting stoned to death it will be with the US military helping. From the soldiers I've read and listened to there is NO WAY they will participate in such activities in a country many of them believe they were sent to "liberate" without the stories getting back home pdq.

Please don't take this post personally because I think we both have only the best intentions for our sisters in Iraq. We need to work now with the religious leaders from all sections of Iraqi society to make sure your worst case scenario doesn't become a reality.

We also need to stop putting IRANIAN in all caps as if being Iranian is a problem in and of its self.

Iranian women have struggled as long, and as hard as you and I have and they need our support as well. Turning the wack job running the country right now into the next kim jong il only adds to the likely hood that the US and friends will turn Iran into another Iraq.


Roho