Kerry believes bin Laden tape cost him election

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=240d3618259cb0b1

Kerry believes bin Laden tape cost him election
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Big News Network.com Saturday 20th November, 2004

Defeated U.S. presidential candidate John Kerry believes the bin Laden tape that surfaced just before Nov. 2 cost him the election, Fox News said Friday.

In an interview conducted prior to the opening Thursday of the Clinton presidential library, the Massachusetts Democrat told Fox's Geraldo Rivera the tape may have scared the American electorate and it came out too late for his camp to rebut it.

"Senator Kerry clearly believes not only was it the security issue that cost him the election, but very specifically the Osama tapes coming out in the 11th hour," Rivera said.

more...

This has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of!!! They are grappling at reasons why Kerry lost when it was Voter Fraud!!!
Maybe Bush should bake a cake for OSAMA !!!

[hedda_foil]

1. Oh bullshit, John!

I thought you were supposed to be smart and perceptive.

[chomskysright]

2. really. bullshit

I wonder what the ? was that was asked?

[SomthingsGotaGive]

4. Maybe he knows the tape was as fake as the results.

Laying a trap...Say it was the key to bush's victory so when he proves it was a plant the pukes can't shrug it off as no biggie.

[George_S]

48. Ya think? So do I.

[regnaD kciN]

51. I hope you're right, but...

...it seems to me that a lot of people here seem to be giving Kerry a lot more credit for "craftiness" than I've seen from him so far.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if he really is playing a trick strategy, but, aside from that one speculative post at modernindependent.com (you know, the one that keeps getting posted here in new thread after new thread :eyes: ), I haven't really seen much proof of this. Possibly, just possibly, the reason Kerry is appearing to have decided not to contest this election and moved on is because he really did decide not to contest this election and move on.

:-(

[George_S]

61. Sure, and if he really didn't have the votes...

... that's exactly what he should have done.

But he didn't give up and he still has some fight in him.

I've always suspected that bin Laden video and was sure something was fishy when it was reported that they held it at U.S. request. Held it for how long? And how was it different before they edited it? There is more to that story.

[Straight Shooter]

85. That is precisely my reaction.

Otherwise, why say anything at all?

[Voltaire99]

87. The man is delusional.

But in a rare case of coming to his defense, I will add: so is the voting public.

In any case, a choice has appeared to us. We can follow the losing path of Bush-lite, represented by Kerry and the DLC/DNC clique. Or we can follow the road to economic populism.

The latter is just and decent, and stands a chance; the former will consume your soul, and still lose to Bushism.

[WildClarySage]

3. Geraldo Rivera???

???

[sunnybrook]

83. Fox News?

????

[PartyPooper]

5. This is utter tripe and bullshit of the highest order.

Don't give it any credance whatsoever.

It was fraWd! With a capitol DUBYA!

:grr:

[lovuian]

7. obviously Fox news has to come up with a BS answer on why

but we all know Why Geraldo it was Voter Fraud thats the real answer!!! I can't believe Kerry gave Geralda a interview anybody else hear about this???

[autorank]

6. All he had to say was: "Why is this guy walking around?"

Over and over: "Why is this guy even able to talk?"

The campaign failed either at rapid response (Swift Boat crap) or any response (this f'ing tape).

I appreciate what Kerry gave but we need people that can come back quick and forcefully.

[shraby]

9. I noticed there were no direct quotes nor

was the interview aired.

[JohnKleeb]

8. there is a reason why geraldo is called whoraldo

[mazzarro]

10. I now believe that Kerry and all the DLC consultants are some of

the most dim-witted SOB's we are cursed to be led by. They have so far refused to acknowledge the role of fraud in this election and they have also been blind to the fact that the reThugs and the chimp* do not intend to play fair nor reach out. But these DINOs still want us to lay down and let them run roughshod all over us in the name of unity when the reThugs are talking of mandate and packing the courts and handing SS to their corporate backers, etc! Damn POS are leaders are!

[Cha]

19. Please don't believe anything

you hear from the corporate mediawhores!

We have to investigate everything..

I will not believe Kerry said this.

Let's make this our truth serum test..take this question to the Kerry people and see if it's verbatim or NOT!

[lovuian]

23. Zidzi makes a great point!!! I went to the video

and it didn't have the interview and its Geraldo's quote not direct from Kerry!!! Geraldo is a SOB!!! :argh:

[okieinpain]

47. fraud maybe, but it will have to be proven by someone other than

the kerry campaign. if they get involved in any way. the story will cease to be about fraud, but about a sore loser.

[Thoth]

63. Confirmation of Kerry's views from another source??? n/t

[DireStrike]

11. I think the problem of "time to rebut" is kinda true...

He had plenty of time to ADDRESS the tape, but what would have happened?

"Lookit whiny kerry, politicizing in a time of need!"

You know the media would have jumped all over it and spewed some BS like that.

[schultzee]

12. Diebold, ES and S and the other touch screen machines defeated

you John, not Bin Laden

[rockymountaindem]

13. And all day people have been giving this credibility...

It's Geraldo people. You remember the guy who got kicked out of his embedded position with the troops because he revealed their position on live TV? They had to kick out a Fox reporter.... that's how bad he is. Now you're believing him. That's just sad.

[lovuian]

14. Your Right I remember the Geraldo who sold his soul to Fox

and gave our military position away on TV!!!

What a IDIOT!!!

[lovuian]

15. OMG!!! Its front page on Fox Kerry whats is wrong with him!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139060,00.html

Exclusive: Kerry Says UBL Tape Cost Him Election
Friday, November 19, 2004


•
NEW YORK — John Kerry (search) believes he lost to President Bush because of the video from Usama bin Laden (search) that surfaced just days before the Nov. 2 presidential election.

The Massachusetts senator told FOX News' senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera that he believes he lost because the tape may have scared the American electorate.

more...

They have this on video!!!

[sherilocks]

59. I listened to the Fox video

and I didn't hear John Kerry say anything, just Rivera quoting him. It was a very minor quote. Then, in typical Rivera fashion, he went on to blow up the alleged quote into a major story.

[Cha]

16. Do we really know Kerry "believes" this?

OR is this just rove propganda machine in full tilt?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

24. Yeah, he is probably bound and gagged in some closet -nt

[GinaMaria]

17. This tape changed my repuke boss' vote

He was actually planning to vote Kerry, but then 'reasoned' if bin laden wants me to vote for Kerry, then I'm doin' the opposite. :eyes: What a jackass.

I think it was less about the tape and more about how it was 'translated' by the 'news' that had an effect.

[jackster]

39. god, your boss

is a dumbass

sorry to have to say it, but he "reasoned" huh? I know YOU must know this!

what part of the tape made him think Bin Laden wanted him to vote for Kerry?

[Liberaltarian]

18. It wasn't osama, and it wasn't fraud...

it was the shitty campaign run by the candidate with a crappy personality.

it was in trying to be so much like * that the lines were totally blurred, and people weren't given any true alternative to vote for.

[countmyvote4real]

36. Trying to be like *?

Excuse me, but Kerry is fluent in English and can talk and reason in complete sentences. They might be overly long sentences, but he is in no way like *.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[President Jesus]

78. simply retarded analysis. bravo.

can this inane "people weren't given any true alternative to vote for" argument get any more tired?

I suppose Dean is this almighty alternative you're speaking of? Going into Iowa, he was the hands down favorite to win the nomination (picked by every media outlet before one vote was ever cast), raised more than 4 times than money Kerry, was given easily three times more press than Kerry, was on every state's ballot, and still got his ass handed to him. In the end by the count of 47 states for Kerry to 1 state for Dean.

Just shut up already.

[JI7]

20. even taking into considering voting problems. the OBL tape DID hurt him

those who vote based on fear are not thinking in a rational way. that's why the bush people kept pushing the whole fear mongering and hatred. those likely to vote republican respond to hate and fear mongering. but this hurts democrats even more because it drives down turnout of those likely to vote democratic. kerry still got a high turnout because he was able to get out the hopeful message concerning domestic issues. but there are a lot of people who only see what is on tv and the media pushed the fear mongering also.

[lovuian]

21. A quote from Nancy Pelosi in the article

"It was a reminder he still at large," she told FOX News. "I think what we could see in the polls a real lead for Kerry and that made a couple points difference … I think it had an effect."

I know the timing majorly stunk!!! But it was Voter Fraud was the reason and not Osama!!! Though it did not help either!!!

[Cha]

68. The "reminder" was that bushco hadn't

CAUGHT osama yet..that was teh reminder.

Kerry won and bush is stealing another election and this is serious shit for our Country!

[WildClarySage]

22. Just out of curiosity

was that tape ever authenticated? IIRC there were some oddities related to that tape that made it's veracity questionable, not the least of which was it's timing.

[lovuian]

27. I don't believe it was ever authenticated and there was two tapes

One for if Kerry won thats the one that was published the other that was if Bush won we never have seen that tape WONDER WHY!!!

[Protect The Vote]

94. Maybe Geraldo could interview osama

live from Crawford.

That might get to the bottom of it.

[TennisGuy2004]

25. LISTEN!!!!

Now listen up. John Kerry DID say that he felt the "terror issue" cost him the election in the interview with the New England journalist yesterday.

HOWEVER, if you actually look at the poll numbers following the Bin Laden tape, Bush's numbers went DOWN. You can verify this on Oscar-Buzz.com.

[George_S]

50. Who?

[regnaD kciN]

52. "The poll numbers went down..."

This is only meaningful if you can establish vote fraud as a reason why the polls (including the exit polls) deviated so strongly from the results.

If not, the obvious rebuttal would be "Sure, the polls showed Bush going down, but the same polls also showed Kerry winning on the morning of the election. Considering that they were wrong on that, it's likely they were wrong on the tape hurting Bush rather than Kerry, too."

Or, they could say that the initial reaction against the tape broke Kerry's way, but, when voters actually had to mark their ballot in the voting booth, concerns about security came to the fore, and enough of them switched to Bush because they suddenly felt we needed a strong leader to provide us with security :eyes: in light of ObL's continuing threat. (This, of course, would have the added benefit of explaining away how the actual results differed so much from pre-election polls.)

[NVMojo]

26. hey, the repukes I know thought the tape meant that only Bush

could save the day for some stupid ass reason. They just didn't trust Kerry with Osama even though Bush finds Osama to not be a big deal.

[lovuian]

28. I know my republican friend thought that too I could never understand it

Osama was never captured and yet she felt safer with Bush!!!

Idiot!!!

[Leilani]

93. That was because Bush talked about keeping us safe

"Everyday when I wake up my first priority...blah, blah"

You heard that speech over & over, right?

[Gman]

29. I want to know what deal was cut with OBL

for him to do the tape. OBL's speech was verbatim from the right wing manual. Its no small wonder OBL's a free man and will continue to be for an unforseeable distance into the future now. Likely because of the deal he cut with with Rove et al to do the video.

[genieroze]

40. What's with the pic?

made me want to :puke:

[Gman]

75. Check this

got it from here:

http://www.liegirls.com/index.html

[Flammable Materials]

30. You've Got To Be Shitting Me.

And this was is man I backed and supported and fought for and endured hatred and abuse and slashed tires for?

And he's telling me it was all about Osama?

If you didn't have the scrotum to hang in for the good fight, John, you shouldn't have gotten in the race to begin with.

[emulatorloo]

64. Why must DU over-react every time the MSM puts out a half baked story

haven't you noticed that the MSM doesn't always get their facts straight? Or that they are not so good at quoting democrats, but pretty good at quoting them out of context or inaccurately summarizing them?

[cubsfan forever]

74. A drop of sanity in a sea of knee-jerk

Kerry-bashing. Thank you! The corporate media ALWAYS plays it in favor of WetDiaper and crew. :puke:

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

31. Anyone who thinks the E voting was legit is an IDIOT !!

Even Bernie Ward is supporting the idea of possible voter fraud, and he ONLY deals in facts (his reputation is on the line so he doesn't ever wear tinfoil).
Last night he read the story of Bev Harris confronting Florida election officials.
It was ASTOUNDING !!
It's all on video tape.
When she met with officials she looked in the trash can outside and found the "signed" election results...The "unsigned" results were different and she confronted them as to why they were submitting them while the real ones were in the trash. They called the police to have her removed...on and on...it just go worse from there. They were running around freaking out on her---can't relate the entire story but it was GOOD !!
And Bernie said himself he wasn't that convinced of "wrongdoing" till he heard about this incident.
Legal action is underway.
We have not heard the end of this yet.
CHECK IT OUT AT
http://www.blackboxvoting.org

[politicasista]

32. Stop hating on Kerry

:mad:

[Lorien]

41. Blind loyalty is for the blind

asking questions and demanding answers from our candidate is American. Why does Kerry refuse to entertain the notion that a ruthless group of thugs would use hackable, unverifiable voting machines to steal an election? Wondering why Kerry seems to have is head up his tush on this issue isn't "hating". Republicans sign loyalty oaths, democrats dissent when one of their own has strayed.It was meant to be a democracy, not a dictatorship.

[elsiesummers]

53. I agree - he was not my first choice but he ran a good campaign.

I think the idea that Kerry screwed things up is simply an excuse made by the Democratic Party.

I look at the election. I supported Edwards in the primary.

But, in hindsight, I see limited possibilities for other candidates doing better.

The possible, who knows ideas.

(1) Gephardt might have won the same states as Kerry, plus Iowa and Missouri.

(2) Clark might have run a near identical campaign to Kerry, with better results, because he did the war hero thing and the patriotism thing better, plus would gain Arkansas (though regionally his sway was not enough).

(3) Gore might have run a completely different, grude match orriented, campaign - and might have won. If he wasn't taken down as a loser, Gore could have won because he wouldn't have had an issue with measuring up on Nat. Security - so would have been entirely a partisan campaign.

No telling if any of these approaches would have been better or worse than the Kerry campaign.

Despite my support of Edwards, I basically don't think, in hindsight, that he could have swung/reframed the debate to domestic security in the way that was necessary for an Edwards win - although I sure would have rather seen the game played on Dem turf and around Edwards' issues.
Also - have to wonder if his charisma could have changed the entire dynamic of the race once he became the chosen candidate.

I basically think that Dems have to stop blaming Kerry - because I don't think, under the circumstances of the media/WH framed issues, that anyone else could have done any better.

[NervousRex]

33. What a load of Bull-effing-shit!!

Geraldo...go fuck yourself!...or better yet take a looooong vacation and keep looking for Al Capone's vault, ya cheesedick half-wit. Jeezuz I hate this shithead.

[54anickel]

34. Might have been the tapes, might have been the voter fraud, might have

been big $$$ from corporate lobbiest, or the corporate owned and controlled media. More than likely it was a combination of all of these things.

Who knows why THAT many people were so easily conned into voting against their own best interests?

When is it time to stop doing the post-mortem analysis and start kicking ass to take our country, our media, our election process, and OUR voices in DC back?

[OneBlueSky]

35. guess I'm a day late and a dollar short . . .

when I read the title of this thread just now, my first instinct was to post something like "he's wrong!" . . . but I see that my fellow DUers beat me to the punch quite nicely . . . :)

[progressivebydesign]

37. Beyond the voting irregularities.. I happen to AGREE with Kerry on this..

Rove couldn't have picked a better time for that tape.

[Polemicist]

38. We lost the election ourselves...

When we continued the triangulation politics of Dick Morris. Democrats chose Kerry in the primary. The voters wanted change, but we offered "Bush Lite", just like Howard Dean predicted.

When the voters want change you gotta offer them a real change to win. The major change issue was Iraq and Kerry couldn't make a clear change message on that issue.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

And the damned vote stealing GOP. ;)

[whirlygigspin]

42. from the "why Kerry lost" department

(strapping on my tinfoil hat)

OK, the last night before the election I saw Papaw Bush breaking out all teary eyed, and I though, oh shit, he's gonna get tons of sympathy votes!!!

So that's my theory-

Cry a little and win--sympathy.

[consciousobjector]

43. OBL could have been part of the reason

that the vote wasn't so overwelmimngly for Kerry that rove would have been unable to make the cheating as "invisable" as the media likes to spin it. But if Kerry said this, it's obviously part of the strategy. Kerry also came out today vowing a battle in Congress over health care and other issues he championed during the campaign. By doing this, he keeps the heat off of the people doing the investigating - looks like he's moved on from the election...Besides that OBL tape was so phony and well timed, with all the Company people losing thier jobs, maybe there is some leakage we don't know about yet.

[Democat]

44. This is a great thing to say - it means that Bin Laden won when Bush won!

This is what Democrats should have said right after the election, "Bin Laden won because people switched to Bush after the Bin Laden tape came out!"

Just like the right wingers yelled about the Spanish elections and how the electorate "let the terrorists win", our side should have screamed the same thing here. When Bush won, the terrorists won and Americans should be ashamed for allowing the terrorists to win!

All Democrats should repeat the same thing. When Bush won, the terrorists won. People only voted for Bush because Bin Laden wanted them to and they were to scared so they let the terrorists win.

We need to learn to frame debates in terms that make our side look good and the other side look like the crooks they are.

[yallerdog]

54. "This is a great thing to say - it means that Bin Laden won when Bush won!

I know I'm new here, but while I am not defending Bush, I tend to doubt that OBL feels like he won this one.

[Democat]

57. Bin Laden wanted Bush to win - he tried to get Americans to vote for Bush!

Bin Laden won when Bush won. Bin Laden did everything he could to help Bush win because Bush has done more for him than he ever dreamed possible.

Bin Laden got everything he wanted in the 2004 election, just like what right wingers say happened in Spain.

[yallerdog]

58. Believe that if you will...

... but OBL has had some dramatic "quality of life" issues in the past couple of years.

[ima_sinnic]

60. ??? oh, right! like being clean, healthy, relaxed & well-fed

--it appears his "quality of life" has improved considerably since his dusty cave-dwelling days. bush is making him rich beyond his wildest dreams. his endorsements bring in billions.

[Supersedeas]

82. do you have some insider info on OBL's quality of life, doggie...share

[jhain]

80. Ahhhh, THANK YOU

Been saying this since the 3rd of Nov.....

[CityDem]

46. Kerry doesn't have a clue

He is flailing around trying to figure out WTF happened on Nov 2nd. He is ready to sue the swift boat liars. He thinks Bin Laden did him in. He wants to make nice one day and fight like hell the next. The guy should get on his Gulfstream and fly away to a warm place and rest for a couple months. Maybe he will figure out that he was a lousy candidate surrounded by a lousy campaign team.

[emulatorloo]

67. I will remind you that Kerry almost won. . .If Ohio or Florida had gone

for him, he would be President. I am not yet prepared to say that those states did not go for him.

I am skeptical of this "FAUX" revelation. . .surely by now you have seen the mainstream media misquote Kerry. quote him out of context or summarize him inaccurately. . .it has been happening for months and months. . .now suddenly Geraldo is an unimpeachable source?

PS I am glad Kerry continues to fight Bush - I don't want him to go away,especially after I heard him call Bush out for his reactionary policies in this video:

http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/everychild.php

[okieinpain]

49. it's quite possible that the lazy american was influenced by that

video. that is the one thing bush had on kerry was the terror shit.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

55. RRRIIIIGGGHHHHTTTT.

/dr. evil voice

[msgadget]

56. It should've helped him win

especially considering all the bad news out at the same time. This one tape didn't do it. And, to say this to Rivera?!

[SoCalDem]

62. He could have just started talking about the "october surprise"

and kept blithely referring to a "special appearance" by osama.. That way when it happened, he would have already innoculated himself..

Gotta think 20 steps ahead with repubes..

[0007]

65. I don't believe FAUX would give an interview to that idiot "Rivera

The churches with the morality thingie, along with voter fraud brought Kerry down.

[robbedvoter]

66. Kerry and Fidel Castro:

Fidel Castro says the emergence of an Osama bin Laden videotape just ahead of the U.S. presidential election seemed to have been "arranged" to help President Bush.
In his first public comments about Bush's re-election, the Cuban leader said, "We have seen too much ... trickery and shamelessness to sustain the belief that this wasn't something arranged."
Speaking Tuesday on the communist-run island's nightly televised "Mesa Redonda" discussion program, Castro added, "Bin Laden makes the documentaries that decide elections."
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBH00D3P1E.html


PSSST! Kerry! You won! Pass it on.

[sunnybrook]

84. Oh Yes, this is helpful!

A ringing endorsement of the fraud we all know about from Fidel Castro! This is supposed to be a good thing? What a joke!

[leesa]

69. What nonsense. Especially since the tape said Bush allowed him time to

pull off 9-11. Kerry is really, really trying hard to throw this race.

[DS1]

70. Kerry had no fire in him, none whatsoever.

Hell, I could act more natural than him, and I don't even like people!

[President Jesus]

79. 700 days on the campaign trail. yup, no fire.

:eyes:

We get it, you think Dean should have been picked. Slight hitch: he needed to carry a little more than one state to win the nomination. Just a little fyi.

[DS1]

81. You, just like many others on this board, seem to be unable

to make a post without putting words in my mouth. A Edwards/Kerry ticket would've been more effective, yet you insist that I'm talking about Dean.

700 days. So what? It wouldn't have mattered if he'd been campaigning since Jan 30 2001, he'll always take too long to make a point, build up a point and then absolutely BLOW the knockout punch. The media would've been against him the whole way, and there's little chance we had of winning this election despite the election fraud. He should have lost his temper, or cracked a joke, just ~something~ to show the world a more human side. Policies are great, but for God's sake, talk about them with some passion.

Besides, Dean wasn't particularly liked in VT, just a little fyi

[Lizzie Borden]

71. When I first heard of this...

I thought that it was a good way to blow Geraldo off. I didn't for a minute think Kerry was serious. I mean if you were going to tell the media something like that, would you choose Geraldo to tell it too? Absolutely not. Kerry is a lot smarter than many here give him credit for.

[deminflorida]

72. My Message to Kerry, Stop Crying in your Arabic Tea Cup!!!

Yeah right, it was Bin Laden, or maybe it was this guy...you know...




BIN STEALING ELECTIONS

[robbedvoter]

73. Let's see: first it was the values, then Clinton, now OBL

Me thinks they do protest too much.

[Dude_CalmDown]

76. That's funny - I would have guessed it was trying so hard not to be a Dem

Add 2 cups of voter fraud, a dash of goose hunting and a whole shitload of ignorance. Stir until it turns into a brown shit-like consistency and place into a whore media. Cook in the whore media until it's all forgotten and then serve with Kool-Aid.

[seriousstan]

77. Kerry needs a mirror

if he wants to see the real reason he lost.

[lojasmo]

86. :eyes:

Or it was the milquetoast campaign

Or the 20 days of vacation

Or the millions not spent in swing states

Or the failure to answer the SWVFT lies

Or the voter disenfranchisement....

Naw, had to be the osama tapes :eyes:

[joelogan]

88. Kerry's economic conservatism cost him the race

Bush is as weak a candidate as the GOP has ever fielded. If Kerry could not beat Bush, then who could be beat.

Kerry lost because he is an economic conservative masquerading as a liberal, just like 95% of the Democratic leadership and activists.

[lies and propaganda]

89. skull and bones cost him it....

But there really isnt a cost if he is down for it.

He conceded wayyyyy to quickly for me. Seems his allegiance to the brotherhood was his motivation to screw Dean with the same Diebold machines that he layed down to, allowing bush Stolen Election Number Three. I feel repulsed that my vote went to him. I would have wrote in my goddamn boyfriend and his foreign policy is shoddy at best :)

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/11/303703.shtml

[Pepper32]

90. I respectfully say, "Kerry SHUTUP"! You're doing more harm than good.

Do not justify this stolen election by saying the Bin Laden tape cost you the election, it was BBV.

Either come out fighting or just be quiet.

[Carolab]

91. C'MON John

You don't think we're REALLY that stupid, do you?

[Leilani]

95. Sadly, I think he does.

[flordehinojos]

92. Geezzz jOHN kERRY, REPEAT AFTER ME: DIEBOLD, DIEBOLD, DIEBOLD

it was the darn machines, the Bushes dirty CIA hands, and my own unwillingness to look at the Diebold machines as an instrument of crime rather than as instrument of democracy that cost me the elections.

Now, John Kerry, after having said it, don't you feel better about having said the truth? Perhaps you need some help in the grieving department ... sort of to help you come to terms with your loss and the very role that you played in that loss (not to minimize, of course,the criminal role that the bushies played in it too).

[struggle4progress]

96. No no no. Think "communication skills" and "message discipline."

[alexisfree]

97. kerry is a loser.. next time i will vote green party

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

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