"Who to trust?" ask U.S. troops after Mosul mayhem

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAR246598.htm

MOSUL, Iraq, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Besides destroying police stations and killing Iraqi soldiers, insurgents in Mosul have also managed to strike at a more intangible target in the last 10 days -- the hard-earned trust between U.S. troops and Iraqis.

After 19 months of trying to build relationships in Iraq's third-largest city, two days of violent unrest and their aftermath have left U.S. troops wondering who their allies really are and many Iraqis warier than ever of the Americans.

"It's impossible to tell who's on our side, particularly when it comes to the police," said Captain Robert Lackey, a company commander with the U.S. Stryker Brigade, which patrols Mosul and a large portion of northern Iraq.

"We've learned that we've got to do more to build local sources and understand what's going on in the city, but it's going to take time. It's like starting over."

more...Ummm. Try more bombs. Then they will love you.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

1. Good Morning Viet Nam... -nt

[Eloriel]

4. Read my mind

Read my damn mind.

It's so discouraging to this Vietnam-era boomer that we DIDN'T learn the lessons of Vietnam. After the 58,283 (IRRC) deaths of my generation, it's SO heartbreaking to see that their deaths didn't even count for "lessons learned."

[yellowcanine]

11. Yep - who is the enemy? In Vietnam we found out it was us. Amazes me

that John McCain does not see this. Maybe because he was a pilot and not a marine or army infantry?

[reprobate]

12. Because he's a republican. He tried once to tell us "quagmire".

And for that they beat him down. Take note of the solidly repug line he's been walking lately.

[saigon68]

19. Yes, he does appear to be marching in Lock Step

With the Bush Criminals.

[UpInArms]

28. here's where McCain clinched his undying support

[Walt Starr]

2. The Iraqi insurgents learned the lessons of the Viet Cong

The troops didn't know who to trust in that debacle either.

[phantom power]

3. Did all these people just... *skip* Viet Nam in history class?

[Nihil]

8. They skipped it in real life ...

Surely you don't expect them to read up on "what happened when they
went AWOL" do you?

Vietnam simply didn't exist in their world - must have been one of
those darn foreign conflicts - so how could they learn from it?

[reprobate]

14. The american people 'forgot' Vietnam.

Must have. Look at how many of them voted for a group of draft dodgers who led us into a war with lies, abysmal planning, and intel provided by Iran(chalabi).

That isn't the actions of a rational, informed people. Only sheep led by the judas goat behave like that.

[DeaconBlues]

23. Many Americans bought the right-wing lies about Vietnam.

That we lost because of the protesters or the politicians forced the troops to "fight with one hand behind their back." This was why the country was so blind when it came to getting us involved in another cluster-fuck. We forgot that you can't fight a people on their own soil who don't want you their. Eventually, you lose.

[asjr]

5. I don't think anyone in this administration understands that

Iraqis do not like killing other Iraqis.

[saigon68]

6. OPERATION KILL ALL "RAG-HEADS"

The Ninth Crusade takes OFF.

[gratuitous]

7. That's a toughie: Who do you trust?

The toadies and sycophants who join up with the invading and occupying forces, or their fellow citizens and neighbors who resist their conquerors with their very lives? Golly, I wouldn't know which way to go either, Capt. Lackey.

[wtmusic]

9. Who to trust?

They were wondering the same thing.

[saigon68]

10. Don't trust Halliburton CAUTION GRAPHIC PHOTOS


Not having fun for Halliburton.




A dead GI from the Ist Infantry Division lies where killed in house to house raids in Falluja



A dead American is loaded on the hood of a Humvee after being killed by a sniper in Baghdad

[Massachusetts]

15. The

Chicken Shit media in this country should be showing pictures like this, its the only way to move this discussion towards a greater sense of Reality and Urgency. :grr:

May Those Troops Rest In Peace.

[saigon68]

16. All over the REST of the world people see this.

Especially in Europe-- that is why they want NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

I feel bad for them too.

This stuff needs to be shown to the witless-- clueless 18 year olds who are about to

"KILL A RAG-HEAD FOR CHRIST"


In my war it was

"KILL A KOMMIE FOR MOMMY"

[wtmusic]

17. Thanks s68 for historical perspective

always appreciated. Sorely lacking in DC.

[malachi]

18. Absolutely 100% correct. The friend of a collegue at work returned from

a work related trip to Greece and was amazed at the coverage provided by CNN in Europe. Completely opposite from that show here in the good ol' usa. Also, everyone, and she says everyone, she spoke to wanted to know why americans are so fucking stupid. Electing the monkey has them stunned and bewildered.

[jwirr]

13. When are the generals and military

(as opposed to non-military leaders) going to get it through their heads that they are fighting against the PEOPLE of Iraq not insurgents! He says they spent all that time trying to win the support of the civilians of Iraq and then they still don't know who to trust. When a citizenry is fighting for the freedom of their country (from any occupation force including our oil stealers) they will never give up and they will fight in any fashion needed. Suggested reading is any good book on the American Revolution. We fought exactly like they are to get the English out of our country. We also had loyalist here who could not be trusted. Wake up military leaders! You are being sacrificed for the oil profits.

[lilo01]

20. Mosul mayhem

"Who to trust?" ask U.S. troops after Mosul mayhem

I think your view is ok.
If they are bombing, they cannot be trusted and loved as well.

So main target has not to be changed: the justice and its holding.
That is why the troops have to be ordered to go home, but at first they must trust good people who are holding that law which is "right people has to got the right properties, who are working for".
And this truth has to be held as a pricipium, over other laws and comands. And they must be trusted by others.
Troops cannot shot innocent people, because it is crime. Even if it had been in a war.

[DS1]

21. Captain Lackey - that's just precious

That's all I have to say about that.

[jmcgowanjm]

22. Recent invasions of Iraq

Approx. 250: Mesopotamia is conquered by the Parthians.
226 CE: Mesopotamia is conquered by the Sassanids.
Under their rule, prosperity continued and irrigation was improved.
635: Mesopotamia is conquered by the Muslim Arabs.
763: Baghdad is started to be built, as part of moving he
centre of the Muslim world from Damascus to the
Mesopotamian region. This involves the start of one the most
impressive periods of the region, where Mesopotamia in many fields is
the centre of the world.
1258: Following a sack of the Mongols, many state structures
of Mesopotamia and the Muslim deteriorates. Both culture
and economy suffer.
16th century: Ottoman Turks and Safavid Persians start
battling over Mesopotamia.
17th century: The Ottomans get control over Mesopotamia.
1932: The eastern and largest parts of Mesopotamia
becomes part of Iraq with its independence.
1945: Syria becomes independent, with a territory that covers
the western parts of Mesopotamia.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/mesopotamia.htm

And there were 13 invasions before these.

[jmcgowanjm]

24. BTW-IRR reports US resupply to Fallujah cutoff

Americans are not only beaten but trapped in Falluja and the
US & UK operations around Latifiyah are just a
desperate attempt to break the siege that is cutting off
their escape and supply routes.

The tide shifted about a week back with the
Resistance managing to infiltrate the northern part of
Falluja, managing to get resupplied, managing to get new
fresh fighters, and then capturing what is now estimated to
be 65-70% of the city fully.

Latest reports indicate the US are retreating from
some positions around the city, and that they have realized
the loss by officialy hinting that Resistance fighters
have 'managed to sneak back into the city' and that
Allawi's government want to 'hold talks' with the
Resistance.

http://uruknet.info/

[Deja Q]

25. Duh. Given the circumstances as we invaded them using bogus claims,

I'm surprised ANY Iraqis are on their side.

[hollowdweller]

26. You know, another Vietnam may be what we need. After the USSR

fell I worried that we would have no checks on our ability to use our military might.

After the Gulf War I could see the Generals, so happy to finally get their toys out and use them again, even if it was a totally unfair fight. They were just like little kids at Christmas. A lot of them saw it as the redemption of the US military from Vietnam. But I told my wife at that time that it wasn't like Vietnam cause they were in another country not their own.

It just makes me sick that all these young guys from here, and a lot of Iraquis that really aren't bad guys are dying. On the other hand another humilitating war may be the only thing that keeps us from a never ending war.

The sad thing is that IMO the stakes are now higher than Vietnam because chances are if we pull out Iraq will be a terrorist haven for years to come. However ironically if we stay in it may be slightly harder for the terrorists to set up organizations that will not be disrupted, but we are producing so many recruits because of our policies it is hard to say which option is the better one, staying in or pulling out right away.

[jmcgowanjm]

27. The difference between pulling out of Iraq & Vietnam

The price of gold will rise to $750/oz.

The $ will drop to $.55/Euro.

The price of gas will rise to $5/gallon.

The typical US family will see their standard of living
cut in 1/2.

And then the real fun starts.

And BTW, the "terrorist haven" is in DC and Manhattan.