Angry Chavez asks US to back off

[Judi Lynn]

Angry Chavez asks US to back off

Monday 08 September 2003, 1:39 Makka Time, 22:39 GMT

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has demanded that the United States stop meddling in the Latin American country's internal affairs.

Chavez's angry insistence came after the US ambassador Charles Shapiro met with Venezuelan electoral officials, who are to decide on whether to allow a referendum on the leftist leader's rule.

"This is a sovereign nation, ambassador, and you must respect this country and your government must respect this country," Chavez said during his regular Sunday television address.

"What prerogative does Ambassador Shapiro have to visit them, and what's worse, to visit them before the national authorities, before representatives of the National Assembly?" Chavez asked.

Shapiro, whom the Venezuelan government has criticised several times before, invited Chavez's ire after he held talks with the National Electoral Council. After the meeting, Shapiro even volunteered US technical assistance for the poll if required. (snip/...)

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[burrowowl]

1. If the

Iraqis are being difficult about their oil, we will just have to take Venezuela's until the Iraqis become more amenable. (sarcasm)

[Frances]

2. Would the U.S. be providing technical assistance

in the form of Diebold voting machines?

[chasqui]

19. Chavez hopes the US interferes

Then he would have a ready made excuse to null the elections, and remain in power. In my opinion, I believe that the US will screw this one up royally, and will give Chavez the reason he needs to do this.

[0007]

25. You better fucking believe it!!

They'll do anything to keep the SUV owners happy and the poor courties suppressed.

We have junior's colors and they have all markings of a nasty snake.

[Redleg]

3. Typical Republican shenanigans in Latin America.

This is getting to be fucking tiring. We are waging a silent war in Latin America and very few people here even give a fuck.

[userdave2061]

4. If Latin America wants to be socialist or communist then let them

All the US has to do is ignore them and refuse any aid their way. Let Latin America do whatever they want as long as they don't expect any support from the US.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

11. Doesn't work that way

Guess where a huge percentage of our oil comes from? It's an OPEC country in South America, and it's the subject of this thread.

Nevertheless, I agree with the premise of your post. We should leave them alone, to pursue their own happiness. Chavez is a very popular president (unless you're a millionaire in Venezuela).

The problem is, the Bush Administration has been actively trying to remove Chavez, by hook or by crook, for over two years now. He's been trying to rape the democratic process by removing someone from office in another country, someone who was elected by a majority of the people of that country. But Republicans always do this, most especially in South- and Central America.

I think Venezuela would be just fine without the kind of "support" they've been getting from the treasonous Bush Administration. If only the Bush thugs would listen.

[denverbill]

31. Yeah, right.

Conservatives didn't even let Grenada go Communist. I'm with you. It's their country, let them choose their own government.

Unfortunately, Big Brother conservatives think they know better the correct form of government for every country, and that form of govt is the one which allows the wealthy to get even wealthier and the poor to rot.

[AP]

34. What the US is afraid of is not some abstract notion of communism,

and Chavez isn't even a communist -- Pallast says that he would have fit right into Kennedy's vision of what Latin America and South America nations should have been doing.

What the US wants to prevent is any left-center government from their incevetible success setting an example for the rest of the world.

The US KNOWS that the flow of profits to Wall St and Houston is what's holding these countries back, and they know that Chavez is going to create a pretty decent economy. That's what they want to stop.

[Paco]

35. Socialist or Communist?

If to believe in the principles of and be supportive of representative democracy is Socialism or Communism as is defined by the current Right Wing Nazi Wacko regime and their mouthpieces in the media, then by all means more power to Latin American countries and peoples who choose that path. The Right Wing Nazi Wackos in this country are telling us that Dr. Howard Dean, Rep. Dennis Kucinich, and others running for President on the Democratic ticket are also "leftists".

:dem:

[curlyred]

36. Read your history

We've intervened in Latin America more than any other region in the world.

[madrchsod]

5. i think it`s called

the "monroe doctrine"

[ewagner]

7. Guilty as charged, sir

I have to admit, I have paid only passing attention to this situation. I've been mesmerized (spelling?) by the evil that's going on elsewhere. I'll try to pay more attention.

[Whoa_Nelly]

15. Gotta keep the pot stirred

...just in case we need another war.

[Dirk39]

6. For many left-wingers in Latin-America and Europe...

Venezuela and Chavez are kind of the only signs of hope, that the neoliberal "globalization" might face a real opposition. If they would succeed, this could start an avalanche and I fear that the USA and the elites in Europe will do everything to prevent this. They fear it much more than any "islamistic" terrorism. I just hope this will start an avalanche!
Greetings from Germany,
Dirk

[AP]

18. Only signs of hope? Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil and, is it Chile

are also run by left-leaning leaders.

[On the Road]

28. And Toledo in Peru

although I hear he has made some unpopular concessions to the IMF.

[Dirk39]

40. But I doubt that they have any chance, if they don't throw the IMF

and the WTF out of their countries. Seeing what these organisations have done to other countries, if they work with them or make any contributions, they're lost.
Dirk

[hedda_foil]

8. Chavez Si! Bush No! BBV No!

[dutchdemocrat]

9. Can you say

US Oil Imports?

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Jun-03 May-03 YTD 2003 Jun-02 Jan - Jun 2002

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SAUDI ARABIA 1,919 2,226 1,876 1,565 1,504
CANADA 1,505 1,610 1,474 1,466 1,413
MEXICO 1,472 1,496 1,500 1,474 1,463
VENEZUELA 1,258 1,391 1,026 958 1,115
NIGERIA 924 907 800 702 571
RUSSIA 424 142 136 78 59
ANGOLA 390 356 351 463 343
UNITED KINGDOM 373 437 361 613 354
ALGERIA 282 81 87 19 38
KUWAIT 274 186 219 244 211
NORWAY 211 190 167 490 357
COLOMBIA 146 133 158 204 241
GABON 140 129 130 123 146
ECUADOR 120 135 99 105 88
ARGENTINA 105 56 47 83 65

[EX-CONservative]

10. Go, Hugo!

I'm glad` someone is sticking up to the Chimp.

I'm afraid if Hugo will die in an "accident" like Omar Torrijos or Mohammed Zia ul-Haq? Maybe like Wellstone?

:tinfoilhat: :scared: :tinfoilhat:

[tlcandie]

12. Aye, he's doing what WE should be doing .. rallying the poor

and down-trodden and actually helping his people! I think he will go the way of those who have actually TRIED to make a difference for the better in this world and that is to die an early death before their full measure is seen/felt by the world :(

They can't let us be rid of fear or full of hope!

[fabius]

13. Technical Assistance!!!!!

Sure send Katherine Harris and a bunch of Diebold machines. We'll make sure it turns out the right way.

US has been waging secret (and a few non-secret) wars in Latin America for about 105 years.

Socialism, schmocialism, if our system is so goddamm much better why are we so afraid of socialists? Hey, I've got an answer, it's much better for us and much worse for the third world countries we exploit.

Capitalists are just as afraid of real democracy as Communists were.

[rosalux]

22. true democracy

Real socialists and communists believe in absolute democracy.
Viva Chavez

[Dirk39]

41. Rosalux? You've spoiled my life!

Since I read your bio, when I was 13, I have those peculiar thoughts:-)
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[E_Zapata]

14. Chavez should deport Amb. Shapiro!

He should throw him out of the country and tell the US to communicate by phone.

And the OAS should back Chavez up.

I do not understand why the various continental countries don't stick to together to stick it to Bush.

Why does Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc not bind together and say enough is enough?

Why does not the entirety of Latin America bind together and do the same thing. I bet Canada will join in with the LA.

Why do they seemingly deal with the USA alone?

Why do "we the people" seemingly go it alone and not bind together?

The Power is in numbers -- why aren't we creating the numbers as a cohesive frontline against the USA Imperialist Cabal?

[chasqui]

16. Chavez is consolidating his power base

Read this article:
http://www.narconews.com/Issue31/article862.html
He has apparently done something that was done in Bolivia back in 1952. His thing is getting linked to a concept called 'indigenism,' which is to recognize the roots of that area, which lie with the indigenous peoples.

[ret5hd]

27. His "thing" is called democracy...

He happens to be of indigenous background. His support is from the poor, who also happen to be from indigenous background.

[chasqui]

42. Yes, it seems obvious to you and I

On the other hand, over there, it is really quite a thing to have someone that LOOKS like he does (not white, nor caucasian), be in charge, and manage to remain so. This is what I meant by 'indigenism.'
Just another name for what ought to be :)

[The_Casual_Observer]

17. Chavez better watch his ass

Guys who speak out of turn have been known to take a quick flight out of a 3rd story window. I would rather see him resign than be murdered by the CIA. it just isn't worth it.

[DBoon]

20. Hugo Chavez, meet Gray Davis

Mr. Chavez,

Please understand that "democracy" as practiced in the United States now includes the right of the wealthy and powerful to remove elected governments that do not meet their pleasure.

I'm sure you will understand. The governor of California, and democratic members of the Texas and Colorado legislatures certainly do.

Your friend,

President Bush

[fla nocount]

30. Hugo Chaves meet Saddam Hussein

Mr. Chavez,

Mr. Hussein also suffered from the notion that a nations resources rightfully belonged to its people. You cannot nationalize God's rich black blood that lies beneath your soil. God makes mistakes too and this was one of them. Perhaps he just forgot where he put that oil. Please take advantage of Mr. Hussein's mistake and give that oil to its rightfull owner........ME

Whistle-asses' Uncle,


Dick Cheney

[AP]

33. Hussein actually believe the wealth of his nation belonged to his family

and not to the people of Iraq.

[fla nocount]

39. That's what the media tried to make me believe as well.

But given the number of Iraqi professionals in the world and the quality of life in a modern city of 5 m+.......what with electricity, running water, sanitation , backbacks, Cocoa-Cola, bridges, schools, Britney Spears, etc., etc., all this before the "Great Lie" leading to the invasion, I'm beginning to wonder if our perceptions of Saddam's rule wasn't colored by the deception of a mentality that doesn't believe in the implied rights of indigenous peoples. Saddam after all looked mighty snappy and cooperative shaking Rummie's hand over that WMD deal they cut in the early 90's. Saddam made the mistake of deciding (based on resources and talent) that he should be the clean-up batter. He forced management's hand. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Just ask Pete Rose.

[dArKeR]

21. Why doesn't Chavez expell Shaprio?

[Judi Lynn]

23. His official bio. from the White House

(snip) Here's the official bio from the White House:

The President intends to nominate Charles S. Shapiro to be Ambassador
Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the United States of America to
the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

A career member of the Senior Foreign Service, Mr. Shapiro has been
the Director of the Office of Cuban Affairs since 1999. His previous
overseas assignments include service as Deputy chief of Mission in
Santiago from 1995 to 1998, Deputy Chief of Mission in Port of Spain
from 1991 to 1994, and Political Officer in San Salvador from 1985 to
1988. He has held numerous posts in Washington, D.C. including
Executive Assistant in the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs,
International Relations Officer in the Office of Latin American
Programs in the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement
Affairs, and Deputy Director of the Office of Andean Affairs. Mr.
Shapiro received an undergraduate degree from the University of
Pennsylvania and a Master's degree from Georgia State University.(snip/...)

http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/2001-South_America/Next_US_Shot_Across_the_Bow:_US_Ambassador_for_Venezuela


http://cubanow.org/reports/programeval.html

(Has anyone ever told him he resembles Groucho Marx?)

This photo was taken from this webpage, which shows people involved in a US/Cuba People to People program, during Bill Clinton's Presidency, in happier times. You might enjoy looking it over. You can see that Charles Shapiro was right in the middle of things in Cuba during that time.

Undoubtedly this program doesn't exist any longer, as Bush is closing 75% of all the formerly open loopholes in the travel ban for qualified Americans. He is simultaneously broadening the opportunities for Cuban "exiles" and their families here to travel back to Cuba, to see family, etc. They can use any of the direct flights which we can't use from Los Angeles, New York, or Miami.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ambassador Charles Shapiro's behavior around the time of the attempted coup in Venezuela was loathesome. For anyone who didn't read it then:

(snip) In Caracas, a congressman has accused the US ambassador to Venezuela, Charles Shapiro, and two US embassy military attaches of involvement in the coup.

Roger Rondon claimed that the military officers, whom he named as (James) Rogers and (Ronald) MacCammon, had been at the Fuerte Tiuna military headquarters with the coup leaders during the night of April 11-12.

And referring to Mr Shapiro, Mr Rondon said: "We saw him leaving Miraflores palace, all smiles and embraces, with the dictator Pedro Carmona Estanga ... satisfaction was obvious. Shapiro's participation in the coup d'état in Venezuela is evident." (snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,706802,00.html



Once being an ambassador MEANT something. What the hell has happened?
http://embajadausa.org.ve/wwwh019.html

[OzarkDem]

32. CIA for sure n/t

.

[NashVegas]

24. Here's Another Link

Some people may not be impressed by Al Jazeera

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=10713

[Judi Lynn]

29. For anyone who would like the story from another source

you may read the identical Reuters story from the Reuters site.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3401072

It never occurred to me there would be a question about my source. Sorry.

[tweekinnow]

26. Bush won't quit

Shapiro and the C.I.A. will do all they can to disrupt Chavez.Here's another example of Bush's shamless arrogance.

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=10691

It seems noone can stop these murderous criminals.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

37. We are not interested in helping democracy!

Maybe it's the oil?

[9215]

38. I like this guy. He is a fighter!

Hugo is a tough hombre and takes no shit from anybody.

He should start naming names in this and investigate people and orgs trying to undermine his presidency. Call the UN in.

[shirlden]

43. A quick search

and .....guess what...folks. The voting machines used in Venezuela were made by our very own.......E.S.&S These are very possibly less secure than Diebold.
Hang on Chavez !!!! You are about to get voted out of office.
Hell, I hope not. How do we warn those people? Any evilduers who can send a letter ??? You bet our Shapiro offered technical assistance....... Chavez is screwed.

:argh:

We need to keep our eye on this one.

[goforit]

44. Iraq is a complete failure, so they'll dig it out of Venezuela!

Pirates!!!!!!!!

These thugs need to be removed from office!!!!!!!!

[Judi Lynn]

45. Venezuela's new motto: power to the people

Venezuela's new motto: power to the people

The chaos often associated with Hugo Chávez's presidency has obscured a political maturation in Venezuela, where grass-roots activism is thriving.

By Mike Ceaser | Special to The Christian Science Monitor

CARACAS, VENEZUELA – The 17 volunteers gathered in a central Caracas apartment have at least one thing in common: most have President Hugo Chávez to thank for getting them involved in politics. Now they're determined to end his political career by having him recalled from office.

In a poor neighborhood across town, Paula Bastida has also turned into an activist - but for the opposite cause. A passionate supporter of Mr. Chávez, Ms. Bastida volunteers for a government-sponsored literacy program in her hillside neighborhood of tin-roofed shacks. She believes Chávez to be the savior of the nation's poor.

Welcome to Venezuela's world of grass-roots activism, a new phenomenon in a country not known for its power of the people.

"Before, one didn't worry about politics," says William Méndez, a customer-service representative for a book-publishing company, at the recall meeting. "One left politics to the politicians and accepted whatever they said." (snip/...)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0909/p07s02-woam.html

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