Pope Concerned About U.S. Priest Shortage

[emad]

Guardian

VATICAN CITY (AP) - Pope John Paul II expressed concern Friday over the decline in priestly vocations in the United States, telling visiting American bishops that the drop presents a ``stark challenge'' that cannot be ignored.

He also suggested, in an apparent reference to the clergy sex abuse scandal, that seminary training needs to be tightened to instill a commitment to ``holiness and spiritual wisdom.''

The pope has raised the sex abuse scandal and other problems facing the U.S. church as American bishops have been making a periodic visit to the Vatican throughout the year.

In Friday's address to bishops from Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska and Missouri, the pope outlined how bishops must provide for the future of the church.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4638623,00.html

http://prorev.com/!pope.jpg

[judge_smales]

1. .

*Sigh*

Is it time to split with Rome yet? The Vatacan is still lost in the 14th century.

[emad]

3. Not while Junior needs them so badly....

[ooglymoogly]

31. well if they can't have fun with the kids

why bother

[wellstone dem]

21. I think it will depend on the new pope

all signals are that the new pope will be quite conservative. This is more likely to move progressive Catholics to form a "New American Catholic Church" than anything else.

[AllyCat]

62. That's true.

According to still-Catholic friends JPII has used "infallibility" to change all the rules for selecting a new Pope. He has moved everything to be more conservative and there is little hope for a progressive in the seat after his departure. Don't know if there is something like a "progressive Pope" though.

Or, they could move into the 21st C. and admit women to the priesthood and allow priests to get married.

Oh, and while they're at it, maybe they could get back to that Christian message of serving others. Instead of having the church vestibule filled with pictures of aborted and miscarried fetuses, they could have people from around the community looking for donors and volunteers to hook people up with needy folks in the community. From all indications, they are really going to need the help.

[Demeter]

24. As Always, Management Is Dealing With the Symptoms, not the Disease

The disease is that Catholicism offers nothing to the modern world. The buildings are being converted to high-cost condos, the art sold to private collectors, the music trashed, and the basic principles ignored. What's left is the ignorance, hatred, and rigidity.

[MattWinMO]

33. Catholic charities offers nothing to the modern world?

So I guess helping impoverished people means nothing.

[arwalden]

34. Oh Brother

:eyes:

[Just Me]

48. Takes too much integrity, courage, principle, character,...

,...to actually be consistent with the basic,...the very VERY basic tenets of morality. For example, "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not bear false witness" and "thou shalt not hold thy name in vain".

"Christians",...are in name or by action.

I love the vision of Jesus Christ. I loathe those who abuse it.

I reject/oppose any person who USES any "religion" in order to impose themselves upon others.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. Make celibacy optional, admit women to the priesthood, and you'll have

a surplus of clergy, just like the Protestant denominations.

There! Problem solved. :-)

[judge_smales]

8. .

There are plenty of (ex)Catholics who agree!

[Rochambeau]

42. And so many (ex or not yet) priests too ! n/t

[Merlin]

18. Right you are. But it will take at least another century.

The old ways must fail utterly and completely before the calcified reactionary Vatican mindset fractures and admits some new blood.

[struggle4progress]

26. There's a lot to like about Catholic teaching. If they admitted women ...

... to the priesthood, I'd give them another look.

[nashville_brook]

35. they won't ever do that

they are the He-Man Women Haters Club meets the Worldwide Man/Boy Love Association

girls would ruin EVERYTHING in the clubhouse!

[struggle4progress]

47. I don't really understand the Church hierarchy. But most ...

... Catholics I have met are not misogynists.

[nashville_brook]

54. i was making a connection btwn pedophila and disenfranching women

it was a lame joke

if women were priests that would mean women would be spouting a bunch of crap i wouldn't listen to, either.

[struggle4progress]

60. Too bad. Most Catholic priests aren't pedophiles, either.

And while I don't entirely agree with Catholic Church teaching, I went to Catholic Church for many years because I just love the Social Justice teachings of the Church.

[nashville_brook]

61. yeah, me too

president of Students for Peace and Justice, east tenn state campus. then a church affiliated group that published a newspaper called Dialogue which focused on internatinal relations...

most aren't -- but the leadership doesn't think it as important to address the pedophiles issue as it does the birth control issue.

[Politicub]

66. They probably aren't

But that's not the perception, and I couldn't be happier.

Most people think the Catholic church is teeming with abusive priests. It may not be true, but that's the perception.

And the church has no one to blame but itself. If you run a systematic program to cover up priests' sexual abuse of children, then you have to live with the fallout.

I doubt the Catholic Church will ever regain its mantle in the US. It will sputter along, but its still in decline.

[Rochambeau]

40. 100% agree. The Catholic world need a Vatican III consil ! n/t

[Just Me]

43. Ever believe Pope John Paul II NEVER, EVER had sex?

Once everyone gets past glorification/obsession/fear/overrating sex,...maybe we can actually progress in a responsible, comfortable manner. I think treating sex like it's some kinda' hot potato or ultimate evil or diamond,...is just plain weird. Sex is so spoiled by human thought,...that it is no longer the natural, normal part of existence,...yadayada,...

,...kinda' like all the other small things we've spent too much energy bitching about while ignoring all those impactful matters we could achieve. Ugh.

[Mari333]

4. but for petes sake, dont let women become priests

what did they expect? I grew up in the catholic church, and foresaw this...when I asked our parish priest why I couldnt be a priest he pretty much told me I was a woman i.e. meaningless second class..
And they wonder why no one stays in their religion...pfffft

[emad]

11. Latest Pope biography as discussed on DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=83833

[Mari333]

14. I read that thread when it was first posted

not surprising...I also read the Malleus Mallefecorum, or Witches Hammer , a few years back..the book of the Inquisition that was used to villify women and blame them for everything.
That mindset still exists today, obviously, especially among the Opus Dei catholics like my mother and Mel Gibson...any woman who buys into that self deprecating hogwash must have the self esteem of a slug.

[SharonAnn]

49. Two female friends left because of the pro-Bush bulletin inserts

during this last election cycle.

Each more than 50 years old, life-long practicing Catholics. Struggled with the misogynism but thought that Church would eventually allow women to be priests.

Don't believe in the Church's stand on birth control and abortion but thought individuals should just make their own decisions.

Through all this, they stuck with the Church, but this last election cycle was the straw that broke the camel's back.

No more for them!

[Mari333]

50. and who can blame them...

I got out a long time ago...the misogyny was too much for me even as a little girl...I didnt buy it back then and I wont buy it now. A woman has to be insane to think she is going to be treated fair and square in that religion..she isnt. No matter how much lipstick they put on the pig its still a pig.

[Bhaisahab]

5. No problem, just outsource priests!

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2004/jun/20/yehey/opinion/20040620opi2.html

[AngryOldDem]

19. They are....

Most new priests are from Asia and Africa, coming over here to take over parishes when nobody is coming out of the seminaries.

We have an Indian who is the weekend associate at my parish. He's a nice enough man; unfortunately his command of English is very poor. As soon as he steps up to give his homily, you can just feel everybody in the pews shutting down. To me this is not serving either the Church or the laity. If you see going to Mass as more than an obligation, you want to take something away from the experience.

Would the walls come a'tumblin' down if women and married men were ordained to the priesthood? Let's try it and see. Otherwise, we're looking at a lot of closed or consolidated parishes, and priests who are the equivalent of circuit riders who will either retire or die early from simple exhaustion. To me opening the priesthood is a "risk" the Church is going to have to take. Otherwise, it will "traditionalize" itself right into extinction.

We all know what the answer to this problem is -- even the Vatican.

[The Zanti Regent]

6. You backed Bush, suffer the consequences you old fart!

Whatever respect I had for this old fart is long gone. He looks the other way while kids are molested. Besides, his bishops are solidly in line with Der Führer...

[emad]

7. "Thank you my son"....

[Anakin Skywalker]

27. "Bless you, my child"

LOL! :)

[Merlin]

28. AllOYouDagosGetOffaMyLawn!

AhhhhhMennnnnnnnnnn!

[musette_sf]

36. AllaYouGuineasGetOffaMyLawn

(the Brooklyn version)

[Merlin]

53. OhhhhhRayyyyyMooooooooooose!

:bounce:

[QC]

65. He didn't back Bush.

But why let the truth get in the way of a good hate-on?

[davhill]

9. The priesthood has been a means of social mobility

throughout history. Today we have a surplus of priests in Africa and Asia and a shortage in most developed countries. Even Ireland which once exported priests and nuns all over the world is feeling a shortage as other options open up for ambitious young men. In the United States the problem has been forestalled by drastically lowering the standards for entering seminaries. The result has been a flood of pedophiles and nitwits.

[emad]

10. The US, UK and European sex abuse scandals go back some

50 years or so. Latest bunch of "nitwits" just following the well-trodden path.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VegasWolf]

58. Try, they go back hundres of years. Some catholic boys

school in Ireland were nortorius in the late 1800's.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. And the shortage of nuns comes from greater career opportunities

for women.

In the old days, the only way a girl from a devout Catholic family could avoid the early-marriage-and-lots-of-babies route was to enter a convent. Then it was socially acceptable for her to devote herself to a career of teaching (even on the college level) or medicine (as a nurse or MD).

[Gregorian]

13. Oh really, now.

[MindPilot]

15. "seminary training needs to be tightened" ?

WTF!? OK, if someone needs to be taught not to bugger little boys, then you got way more problems than fostering "spiritual wisdom".

[s-cubed]

16. Awwww, I'm so sorry

As an ex-Catholic, warped forever by 12 years of parochial school, I have no sympathy whatsover. :nopity: Those repressed old men in the Vatican have no idea of what the world is really like. The final straw for me was the recognition that women would never be considered anything by chattel by the church.

[Deja Q]

17. Give it up, Pope. Your an antideluvian old fogie with brain damage.

I'm surprised he didn't start chirping about bullshit correlations between pedophelia and homosexual men, though that article is somewhat pithy.

But we need more than spiritual wisdom. We need WISDOM. And we're not going to get much of it while a brain-damaged fogie talks to a man with NO brain (or if there is a brain on his* end, why the deviousness and constant flip-flopping on issues?)

[nashville_brook]

20. "the reason why traditional religions are all crumbling...

is they are no longer relevant. so it's time for us to create a new religion, you see. and that's okay, because tht's our right cause we are free children of god with minds who can imagine anything... and that's kind of our role." -- bill hicks

[cliss]

22. I agree. The church is nothing but a framework,

with nothing to offer, other than empty rituals, meaningless repetition of worn-out phrases that mean nothing. I derive nothing from this. Even less from a bony index finger that sticks out and lectures me on how "sinful" I am.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather be out and go hiking and commune with nature.

Now as far as the Pope, he's looking at things from the wrong angle. As usual, he's focusing on the symptom (not enough priests) rather than the structural problems (problems within the church, society) that have caused this shortage.

What he needs to be asking is, "What's wrong with my church, that I'm attracting only pedophiles and other warped people to come be my spokesmen?"

[nashville_brook]

23. we must evolve ideas n/t

[happynewyear]

25. this is nothing "new"

There has been a priest shortage for a very long time, thus the #'s we now see of "deacons" and others in the Church that are not for real priests.

And like I said, this is nothing new AT ALL.

[Merlin]

29. There needs to be another pic like this with Bush slapping his forehead.

I mean JPII is just as fucking dumb as W.

Still this pic cracks me up!
:bounce:

[cyr330]

30. When, oh when is he going to wake up?

That white-robed reptile is going to have the shock of his life when he discovers there aren't any priests in the United States to serve up Jesus' "body and blood" buffet style. He's got his head so far up his ass that he'll soon be able to reach his own tonsils from "down under" in the near future. What is it going to take for him to wake up? Looking at the above picture I would venture to say that it's not going to happen. . . .

[Massachusetts]

32. From The Book Of Revalations

and Reality....How about lets say O.K. to a Priest being able to marry, you know like they were able to way back in the olde tymes.....

The Catholic church better change course or its going the way of the Do Do bird.

BTW its O.K. for WIDOWERS to be priests - true fact.:wtf: O8)

[VegasWolf]

57. Of course, it's all tied up with inheritance money.n/t

[klebean]

37. Cardinal Ratzinger

is the marionette propping up the pope.
a scary dude.

this oft made assertion by the "pope" riles me; the vatican has been trying to assert
this is an "American" problem, while in reality, instead of the once "normal" protocol
of transferring priests from parrish to parrish, there has been widespread international
transfers, which in effect, protect the abusing priest. Not to mention the fact there have
been allegations, settlements, convictions in many dioceses worldwide:

"The pope has raised the sex abuse scandal and other problems facing the U.S. church ..."

The scandal is worldwide, centuries old. Check out Father Thomas Doyle's upcoming
book that traces child abuse from the inception of the church, ie, fourth century - Tom
Doyle was first in his clarion call in the mid 1980's foretelling the consequences of
this scandal if his - and other's - recommendations for dealing with abusing priests
weren't heeded. The manual he and his associates compiled was ignored by US Bishops
in 1985.

[HereSince1628]

38. US Catholic Church...Make priests or die!

And you think that there are not thousands of Catholic priests from all over the world that wouldn't accept an assignment in the US??????

You have GOT to be kidding.

[Rochambeau]

39. Allow the catholic clergy to get married your Holyness !

That prohibition is so...so..sorry, no comment.

[Book Lover]

41. Yawn - tell me something I don't know

Holy Father, step past your paralyzing fear of the modern world, please. Your God made this world, too; why don't *you* want to live in it?

[Wunderkind]

44. Priest Shortage?

Maybe they all just got out of the pool!

Thank you! Thank you! I'll be here all week.

[Forkboy]

45. No worries,I'm keeping a bunch out in the shed!

:)

[shain from kane]

46. Follow the money.

They are hurting.
The bad publicity is costing them a fortune.
They want to turn the tide, and keep the gravy train going.

[donheld]

51. OUTSOURCING!!!!

This is one job that can be done just fine in India!!! :evilgrin:

[0007]

52. The day the draft start, you'll see an influx of Catholic Priests

[Chicago Democrat]

56. Oppose the War More Vocally and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

Like make anyone who helps him excommunicated and ILL FUCKING JOIN!

[VegasWolf]

59. What do you call a catholic priest that doesn't molest boys? n/t

[Massachusetts]

63. Now now

Lets have NUN of that..... SorryO8) :evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. I live in KS and work in MO

and know of a half dozen priests in these two states who have been sued for pedophilia. So if he's really concerned about the state of the priesthood here in the midwest, he needs to address this problem. I wonder if he mentioned this in his address to these priests?

[ima_sinnic]

67. adapt or go extinct--it's quite simple, really (n/t)

[marew]

68. As an exCatholic....

For a church who looked the other way while children were molested, who would want to be associated with them. My fiance is an ex-priest whose own brother was molested by a priest. He said there has been concern for a while now that many of the seminaries have a very high proportion of gays. I really couldn't care less as long as they stay away from kids. I also feel for the good priests who have been tainted by the others. I mean what is the first thought that comes into your mind anymore when you hear 'catholic priest'?