American girl, 15, is first rabies patient to survive without vaccine

[emad]

The Independent
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
26 November 2004


Little more than a month ago 15-year-old Jeanna Giese was critically ill with rabies after a bat bit her during a service at her local church. She had failed to obtain medical treatment immediately and by the time she did see doctors they decided that because her symptoms had already developed, it was too late to use the usual vaccine.

Instead, they tried a radical experiment, placing Jeanna in a drug-induced coma and injecting her with a mix of anti-viral drugs. At the church where she was bitten, family and friends turned to prayer.

Now Jeanna's doctors say she is cured, the first person to have survived rabies without the vaccine. Only a handful of people - perhaps as few as five - have survived after developing even the earliest symptoms of rabies, and all of them were given the vaccine.

The specialist who prescribed the cocktail of drugs described it as a "miracle". Stacey Muller, a spokeswoman for the Children's Hospital of Wisconsin in Milwaukee, where Jeanna was treated, said: "This is the first documented case where someone has survived without the vaccine. After being bitten by a bat you absolutely should get treatment but she did not.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=586799

"At the church where she was bitten".....?????

[still_one]

1. yeah right, the anti-viral drugs had nothing to do with it

why did they even do that if they believe it was such a miracle?

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

2. duh

it was not rabies. It was the hideous virus (MMVV) from those vampiric bloodsuckers in the church.

:evilgrin:

[bahrbearian]

3. "Its a Miracle"

A terriorst Bat in church.

[rexcat]

4. I would not describe it as a miracle...

If the physician puts "miracle" as part of the cure in the paper he plans to publish concerning this case then I doubt if it will pass peer review.

It will be interesting to see if there is any sequelae post-treatment (i.e., neurological problems such as motor skill deficits; cognitive problems, etc.). Another concern is this treatment effective. The only way to find out is to treat the next patient who presents to rabies with the same treatment. If it works then they have an effective treatment. One patient treated does not amount to a cure but it does look promising. As far as miracles go I don’t think so. I would put my money on science and good medical practice over superstition. What also helped was having a doctor who took an unconventional treatment modality to treat the child and it worked.

The primary message here is to seek medical treatment after being bit by a animal. The rabies vaccine is far less painful today than in the past.

[Fovea]

14. Injecting her...

Amazing that these anti-virals crossed the blood brain barrier.
That is a bit miraculous, at least to me.
So many intersting developments since I was working in medicine.
Thanks for your comments, btw.

[rexcat]

16. There are a few drugs that will pass

the blood-brain barrier Also you can give them intrathecally and some drugs are given in combination to enhance the crossing of the blood brain barrier. It will be interesting to read the paper.

[depakid]

38. Those are my thoughts, too.

I'm guessing that the poor girl may have neurological problems that may not present for some time.

Even so, it's impressive that her physicians were willing to try this unconventional "shotgun style" treatment- hitting her with 4 anti-virals and, apparently inducing a coma.

I'm a little disappointed that the Independent played up the prayer angle, though. It seems to me we've already wasted enough research dollars over the years on that fiasco.

[robcon]

5. It's a 'miracle' in one way

Anti-viral drugs are truly miracles of the late 20th century. We had always thought that viruses must "run their course," and then the anti-HIV drugs saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Now some anti-viral drugs show promise in defeating other viruses.

It's an amazing time we live in.

[w4rma]

6. Bats in the church belfry

"At the church where she was bitten".....?????

[Deja Q]

7. Bats in the belfrey, it's a funny ol' world. If it was a miracle,

the bat wouldn't have bit her in the first place. (and if it was one of those fringe crackpot sects where they play with snakes and bats and scorpions and sulferic acid, they wouldn't have taken the girl to the hospital.)

It is not a miracle. It's a combination of drugs injected into her bloodstream that were made by some bright people and administered by a competent doctor.

[alwynsw]

8. Oops. She's not the first.

There was a fellow in Ohio who made it in the 60's. The story was in our local paper. I remember reading about it.

If I get around to it, I may do a search to see if I can find a reference.

[kurtyboy]

25. I remember that too--

Although my memory places it in the early seventies. I was in fourth or fifth grade, and it was actually news in one of those pseudo-newspapers that some organization passed to schools as a learning device. I can still see the photo of the person--young man IIRC. BTW, I was in NW Washington State--a long ways from Ohio. This was big news everywhere....

Kurt

[alwynsw]

28. May have been early '70's.

I don't recall but I was in either junior high or high school.

[trotsky]

9. The miracle of human intellect over our environment, yes.

Hooray for us. We're stuck here on this rock in this vast universe all alone, and look what OUR BRAINS have been able to do for us.

If it's a miracle this girl survived, then it's only a miracle because GAWD(tm) made rabies so damn fatal in the first place.

[OutsourceBush]

30. God likes to kill people with Rabies most of the time

It's a real miracle when he kills most of them. I am sure all those dead people really appreciate it.

God is sending a lot of troops home from Iraq with no arms or legs, real dam miracles on a daily basis. Praise Jesus. 100,000 dead Iraqi women, children, soldiers and elderly. Praise Jesus.

[AngryAmish]

10. Color Sarge:"It's a miracle."

Chard:"If it's a miracle color sergeant, it's a short chamber box henry 45 caliber miracle."
Color Sarge:"And a bayonet sir... with some guts behind it."

[hlthe2b]

11. So, a new denomination moves from snakes to handling rabid bats....

while speaking in tongues..... Thank the Lorrrrd!


They sure don't want to mention the role and use of anti-viral, aka AIDS drugs, do they?

[OutsourceBush]

36. Those evil gays don't need aids drugs, they need more prayer

Praise Jesus /sarcasm

[Robert Oak]

12. genius book of world records had someone else living n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

13. I remember reading about a boy who survived rabies

in a Reader's Digest piece about 30-odd years ago.

[Nikia]

20. He had been vaccinated

But came down with rabies anyway. Still it was assumed that the vaccinated gave him an advantage in surviving. A few other people who had vaccine faliures also survived but were severely brain damaged. The boy, Matthew Winkler, in Ohio made a full recovery. Jeanna is the first to survive without ever have been vaccinated.

[achtung_circus]

15. I've been following this story for about a month.

They were not (as suggested by subsequent posters) handling bats, it fell from the rafters.

As to it being a miracle, it might also be called magic.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
Arthur C. Clarke

[THUNDER HANDS]

17. why wasn't she treated right away?

huh?

[rexcat]

18. Again it is not a miracle...

I will take science and logic any day over superstitution.

[Nikia]

19. I've been following this and have prayed for her

We can disagree about the definition of miracles. I prayed for several different things during the time of her illness. Besides this, I prayed for several things that were much more likely to happen, which didn't: John Kerry winning the election, that I would find an effective treatment for my ibs, that any one of several unemployed people would find jobs. Yes, it was the treatment, an act of science, that caused the miracle. It was a treatment though that had never been used for a disease that never had been cured. I have considered much more minor things in my life miracles so let her family consider this a miracle.
I hope she will continue to recover, even fully. I hope that this treatment can be effective for others also and save the lives of many throughout the world who come down with this disease. Future survivers and their families will also remember this "miracle" that allowed their own miracle to happen too.
That said, the most effective treatment for rabies is immediate vaccination if one is bit by any wild animal or coms into contact with bats, which often leave almost undetectable wounds. Even if the treatment is effective, rabies is very damaging. Even with treatment, many people would probably still die or become severely disabled. Her treatment wasn't exactly cheap either.

[Jack_DeLeon]

21. OMG....

your saying that sometimes people randomly survive diseases without any medical intervention.

Thats unpossible. :eyes:

This isnt news, people who cant afford medicine, or dont have access to it, or just dont want it sometimes get better without it.

This doesnt mean that everyone should try it.

[Nikia]

23. Rabies isn't a disease to mess around with

She didn't get vaccinated because she didn't think that she had a rabid bite. When she showed symptoms, it was too late for the vaccine and she got better after a new treatment and intensive care. This new treatment might work with other people, but it will continue to be an intense damaging disease that probably won't be able to be treated at home with a couple weeks of pills.
People do randomnly get better without treatment for more minor infectious diseases: influenza, acute bronchitis, measles, pneumonia, and many others can be survived without medical treatment of any sort. Rabies is not one of those diseases.

[NickB79]

42. "Without any medical intervention"

Yep, no medical intervention here, except for the drug-induced coma the girl was put in, and the numerous anti-viral compound injections she was given. No one "sometimes get better without it" when it comes to rabies. This is one of the few diseases we know of that is fatal 100% of the time without medical intervention, and should not be messed around with.

[daleo]

22. I thought Bush survived rabies as well

In fact, he seems to have learned to have lived with the condition. It has been rough on the rest of the world though.

[OutsourceBush]

24. Read my lips, prayer will not do sh*t for anyone!

It is total baloney. No one is listening. Prayer is voodoo for idiots and poor people. PERIOD

[Dem2theMax]

26. Thanks for calling me an idiot and poor person.

I'll pray for you tonight anyway.

[OutsourceBush]

27. Pray yourself a million dollars while you are at it

no need for education, just pray for that money. No need for doctors, just pray yourself better. No need for healthcare, just pray yourself better. Next time the car has a problem...no problem, just pray it better.

While you are at it, please pray Jesus f'ing Bush out of office.

[Dem2theMax]

29. Right now I'm going to thank God for the ignore button.

No need to reply. I won't be able to see it.

[OutsourceBush]

31. sure you will, God wants you to read my message

praise Jesus

[I_Make_Mistakes]

32. Dem2...

Prayers aren't a bad thing, but, remember, when Jesus prayed in the Garden, how effective was that. I stopped praying for anything other than God's will be done.

Nikia - I am new to DU posting and don't know how to PM. If you have IBS of the diarrhea type, try Acidolphilus. It works!! Many MD's fight this because they can't prove the stomach barrier cross, just as the blood/brain cross. It may take 2-3 weeks, but trust me, it works.

[Nikia]

33. You understand nothing about prayer, faith, etc.

You're right it would have been much better if everyone would have just accepted that no one survived from rabies. It would have been much better if her family accepted that she was doomed to die and not have wasted all their money trying to save her. It would have much better if the doctors wouldn't have tried a treatment that has never even been tried on lab animals.
Faith is a belief in what we have not yet seen. Prayer offers hope to those who would have otherwise lost hope despite all their efforts. Ultimately what we believe we will become, we will be. Whether this is divine or not, people cannot know for sure but these things are, nonetheless.
Perhaps, you have made up your mind. Perhaps, prayer does nothing for you. You don't know what it does for others though. You miss the point entirely.

[OutsourceBush]

34. The point is, prayer is complete rubbish

Why didn't the little girl just stay at home and pray herself better? Why did she even go to the doctor? Why did she try the new MEDICAL treatment? Sounds like her faith in GOD was a little weak to me. Next time you get sick, DON'T GO TO THE DOCTOR. Just pray. You pray to Jesus and I will pray to the tooth fairy, let's see who gets better first. Amen (I can't believe this crap is on DU)

[I_Make_Mistakes]

37. Prayer

If you were responding to me Nikia, then get ready. I was you, I believed so strongly that prayer was the answer. When we were bombing Kosavo, I offered my home to refugees, I took off work (my vacation time) to work the phones for the refugees, I basically volunteered to help with anything at the local Fort where people were going to be evacuated to. ( I have 3 undergrad degrees and I volunteered to clean the bathrooms for God's sake!), etc.

I even planned on sleeping on my floor, because the Kosovo's have such large families. You had to take in like 6-8 people. That was my Thanks to God.

That was not meant to be derogatory, but truly Thankful for what I have.

Did you?

In the next weeks we had Columbine. I said, Lord, I can't help them all! I prayed for the kid ( I forget the name now) who had 4 gunshot wounds to the chest, that we needed a sign that evil would not win. Well, that child lived.

Where you and I would disagree is that, how many die (their prayers went answered). I prayed, at the start the start of the Afghanistan campaign (I was not convinced, Turn the other cheek, that this campaign was going to stop the problem), Lord. please let the people who suffered severely under the Taliban be protected.

Guess what? They suffered and suffer now.

So, guess what. I really don't have time for selfish prayers, like let this person get a job, please heal me of my many afflictions, while people are staving and being killed on a day to day basis. I am not that selfish, so Thy will be done serves me perfectly.

[Nikia]

39. I wasn't responding to you

I was responding to the poster who thinks that prayer is completely worthless. Even if the poster doesn't personally believe in God or prayer, I think that it is intolerant and generally bad to make fun of those who do, especially this family who has gone through the very real possibility of losing their daughter and still a long road to recovery.
I understand your point of view about prayer. I prayer for others too in the world who I do not know. I know that prayer is not a magic thing. There will always be death and suffering. We might differ on what it is right to pray for, but I respect your point of view and think that we agree upon my first paragraph.
Thanks for the advice about acidolphus. I'm willing to give anything a try now that won't make me sicker.

[OutsourceBush]

35. "bat bit her during a service at her local church"

Sinners!!!! Sinners I tell you!

God has smite them in his house!

Though little girl has pissed off God! She must be an Evil sinner is all I can say. Praise Jesus, pass the beer and let's kill some Iraqis! yeee..haww

[Nikia]

40. I'm appalled that several here are so negative

She was bit while attending a Catholic church service. Her family is devoutly Catholic, as are many American and people across the world. She handled the bat because she loves animals and was trying to help it. Bats are not uncommon in less urban areas of Wisconsin. She didn't get vaccinated because she didn't believe that the injury was significant or potentially rabid, not because her family was testing God.
Her family is devoutly Catholic. She went to a Catholic school. Most people in her community believe in God. Why wouldn't they be praying for her? Doctors are now usually trained to be respectful of people's faith and encourage them to use it when dealing with serious illness and injury.
I don't think that anyone is arguing that the medical treatment didn't helped her clear the rabies. The treament had never been tested though, even in lab animals. The doctors were making an educated guess as far as her treatment went. It would be like me, without medical training but an understanding of basic human physiology, successfully performing open heart surgery with no help or instruction, which I'd consider a miracle. Even if this turns out to be the best treatment and can work for other people, since rabies is a devestating disease, there will still probably be more people who die than live.
They don't know how big of a recovery she will make, but she already is in better shape than many other people that families take home after serious accidents and illness and free from rabies.
If this treatment is effective, this will be more than a great thing for her and her family. It will save many more people as well.
I encourage Duers to be more tolerant of people who may not share your beliefs. Many Americans believe in God, prayer, and miracles. These beliefs were only useful, not harmful in this case. Yes, she got bit at church, but she could have just as easily been bit in the woods, at school, or at a concert.

[jpgray]

41. So that's how she ruined Thanksgiving

Everything makes sense now.

:silly: