President Bush urges Northern Ireland's Protestant, Catholic leaders ...

[MaineDem]

President Bush urges Northern Ireland's Protestant, Catholic leaders to cut a deal

BELFAST, Northern Ireland President Bush phoned the key Protestant leader in Northern Ireland today, telling him to do his best to reach a deal with his longtime Catholic enemies.

Democratic Unionist Party leader Ian Paisley says he told Bush he wanted to reach agreement, but he must be satisfied that Irish Republican Army violence is over.

Talks to revive power-sharing in Northern Ireland are approaching a critical weekend. A draft deal has been approved by the Irish and British governments.

A little bit more here: http://www.wmtw.com/Global/story.asp?S=2616663

I don't trust anything this administration does. And I don't trust any deals involving the Reverend Ian Paisley.

[knowbody0]

1. erin go blaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Melodybe]

2. Way to piss off the Catholics, is he trying to cause problems

I guess he can't deal with all the Irish Clinton love.

[bettyellen]

3. is it my imagination or is bush trying to be an international man...

of mystery lately? Jeeze six months ago, he couldn't I'D. half these places on a map. Remeber about him bragging about phoning these people? All of a suden he's getting on airplanes and what not. Dispensing advice to others? He's a f'ing laugh riot!

[Caledonia]

4. No way

I sincerely doubt he will be able to recreate what Clinton achieved. Bush is immensely disliked in both Northern and Southern Ireland.

He will be a liability to any peace talks.

[dbt]

38. Hey, Caledonia!

Welcome to DU!

:hi:
dbt

[McKenzie]

41. another Scot agrees with you Caledonia

the previous intervention of the US in the Peace Process showed great diplomatic skill. The Independent Body on Decommissioning, headed by Senator George Mitchell, achieved through diplomacy what the UK government failed to achieve through decades of military occupation. Credit to the man for doing that though the situation is still fraught with difficulties. Sen' Mitchell's achievements are unlikely to be equalled by someone who does not understand the complexity of the divisions in Northern Ireland, and/or who lacks the diplomatic finesse that is required to make progress over there.

Cool handle BTW.

[ScrewyRabbit]

5. Next step -- invade Ireland

eom

[knowbody0]

6. think about that-

terrorists have been bombing the fuck out of england for hundreds of years. we only invade brown people's worlds. strange

[DemBones DemBones]

18. Think about what the English did to the Irish that

inspired Irish terrorism. My family comes from England, and I love the country and the people, but I also think the English have treated the Irish abominably.

And, of course, the English DID invade Ireland, and haven't gone home yet.

Bush** talking to Ian Paisley, of all people, is a fine way to make things worse.

[knowbody0]

20. my irish ancestors fled british tyranny

after fighting it for years over there

[MaineDem]

7. The British tried that...

they're still there.

[MatrixEscape]

8. Like the Word tends to give

a rat's ass what he has to say or tries to influence?

Urges? Oh, that is rich. "What are you going to do, invade us if we don't?"

[Ima]

9. Thank you *, I feal so much better now.

:puke:

[Rose Siding]

10. That ought to do the trick, then

And those long distance minutes aren't cheap!

[scurvy_n_disastrous]

11. paisley-bob jones u

where he received his doctorate (honorary, I believe).

[JohnKleeb]

13. yeah and he's spoken there quite a few times

[bin.dare]

39. not honorary doctorate, but 6 month version

one christian fake calling another christian fake.

[JohnKleeb]

12. The Reverend Ian Kyle Paisley

:puke: that fucktard spoke at Bob Jones University at one during the 60's. He's a scumbag, and very, very anti Catholic.

[VegasWolf]

15. awol trying to start a fundie christian war. awol talks to

oversea leader who just happens to be from BJ University,
give me a break! There goes Dublin, too bad, it
was such a nice city.

[JohnKleeb]

21. huh Catholics aren't fundies

and Dublin is in the Irish Republic, they wouldn't be affected directly if trouble began a brewin in Northern Ireland.

[VegasWolf]

23. As an ex-Catholic they are pretty much fundies to me, they

denigrate and marginalize women, are against masturbation
because of wasted seed, have no tolerance ( other than lip service )
for other religions. True, they don't kiss snakes, but I want nothing
to do with them.

[JohnKleeb]

24. Fundies take the bible word for word

Catholics don't. You don't have to like them but Catholics aren't Fundementalists, fundies take the bible word for word, Catholics tend not to.

[VegasWolf]

25. Not True, believe what you want. I'm going back to reading Nietze!

[JohnKleeb]

26. maybe thats how you were brought up

but I was brought up and taught by my ultra Catholic relatives not to take the bible literally. Yeah, believe what you want to.

[MaineDem]

27. Hell, we rarely even looked at a bible

We had the catechisms and that was about it. Even during 12 years in Catholic schools we rarely opened one.

I wouldn't consider Catholics to be fundies either. Not sure about the Opus Dei folks, though.

[JohnKleeb]

28. yeah opus dei

they're different, :shrug:, my grandma actually saw Clarence Thomas at services a while back, not at an opus dei chruch mind you, shes not opus dei, hell because of her background I only consider myself Catholic not Roman Catholic, :shrug: that Slovak bloood gets in the way.

[Malva Zebrina]

40. Yup, in my twelve years in the Catholic School system we never

studied the Bible at all.(course I am old so what I am talking about happened in the middle ages) In my home, there was never a Bible. Additionally, we were taught that independant, personal interpretation of the Bible was a no no. That is if anyone ever read it :shrug:

It is has changed since then I think.

[VegasWolf]

31. You're right. My bad, the definition of a fundie is one who takes

the bible both literally and figuratively. I was
never taught from the bible either while growing
up, but I learned all the bible stories in religious
class. I am not meaning to insult your religion,
it's just that religion has no meaning for me and I like it that way.

[JohnKleeb]

33. I am not offended vegas

It's just there is a difference between us and the fundies. Whether you're religious or not doesnt bother me.

[othermeans]

35. Remember the majority of Catholic voters went Bush they don't care

[JohnKleeb]

36. and how many do you suppose know that?

If the Catholic voters knew how much the fundementalist protestant base of the republican party has it out for them, they would vote democratic in huge numbers. While it is true that Catholics went for Bush, it was close, far closer than Protestants.

[othermeans]

37. I would guess that the majority of Catholics know that there are

glaring differences (for instance check out what ol' Jimmy Swaggart and Bob Jones have to say about Catholicism) between them and the fundamentalist Protestants, but the anti-abortion stance brings them together.

I've had some success arguing with both fundamentalist and Catholics when I point out that abortion statistics actually go down under a Democratic president and then ask why?

But their combined anti-gay and anti-abortion stand seems to be the glue that holds them together.

Perhaps the social issues(treatment of the poor, capital punishment and the treatment of immigrants) could rend them apart but I doubt it.

[slamthecrank]

43. hang on...

had a huge battle before the November election with local Catholic Churches. (The Charleston Diocese of South Carolina) I'm Catholic, and they were putting cards and flyers on people's cars after mass. One flyer was of a cute baby (ala Michelin Baby) and the words "A vote for John Kerry is a vote to murder me."

Technically, Catholics profess to believe in the Bible first - but, in actuality, they deem Catechism to be of higher importance. And, once my father - who is a deacon - explained why it is the Catholic belief to support Capital Punishment (some b.s. about having no other way to rid the world of such an evil, capital punishment is acceptable and appropriate via Catechism), I revoked all relations with the Catholic Church. It's a business, that's all. They make money, they go where the money takes them. Like the old saying "who's your daddy?"

So, don't be too quick to think that issues of Capital Punishment or the treatment of the poor would break ties between Catholics and "Fundies". You'd be suprised how in-step they are, actually.

[bobthedrummer]

14. A Unionist jackboot RW fruitcake, not an Irishman!

[JohnKleeb]

22. thank you bob

[Malva Zebrina]

16. He is pissed off that Clinton made such inroads to peace in Ireland

and the people of Ireland love Clinton.

Bush hates that.

He, like he tried to push his way ahead of Bill Clinton at the opening of the Clinton Library in Arkansas, is trying to outdo Clinton here also.





Problem is that he is really too stupid to do so and relies upon CEO business public relations techniques to make it "appear" as if he is some sort of a seasoned diplomat that can, in all his acquired "wisdom" of a self appointed "war president" give advice to Ireland.

I would like to see him try to visit Ireland. I guarantee there will protests in the streets like never before seen against any American president. You can bet he will NOT go there. LOL

Most in the world are on to him, except our wonderful media which will report this as the greatest thing ever to happen to Ireland under the Bush lying administration.

[MaineDem]

19. Boy George was in the Republic of Ireland this past year

There were thousands protesting him. The protestors even held up the press bus which delayed the press conference. It was sweet!

That picture is troublesome. Was Bush really trying to push past Clinton? It certainly looks it. Man oh man!!! What class...not!

[bobthedrummer]

17. Witchfinders like Ashcroft and Grand Inquisitors like the AG nominee

Gonzales (another Dominionist asshat and a Rapture theorist:puke::argh:) get along with folks like Reverend Paisley. Maybe he extends back to the Prescott Bush era?

[Bridget Burke]

29. Ashcroft & Paisley both got honorary degrees from Bob Jones U.

Along with Strom Thurmond, Lester Maddox & George Wallace.

Paisley was one of the first so honored. In those early years, Paisley called the Pope, the "great fornicator" In their 1986 book Paisley and Bob Jones, Jr. Ed Moloney and Andy Pollak wrote that Paisley and Bob Jones, Jr., "share a profound hostility, bordering on paranoia, toward any religious group, however evangelical, which has had any ideas deemed by them not to be based on the infallible Bible...From Paisley learned about the extraordinary variety of deviations from true American Protestantism: dubious Southern Baptists, neo-evangelicals like Billy Graham (already a Paisley target), followers of 'neo othrodoxy,' 'pseudo fundamentalists,' false revivalists, and the ' new Pentecostalists' of the charismatic movement -- a particular anathema to Jones...

www.blackshade.net/norire/paisley/ian.html

[proudbluestater]

30. I wish he would shut the hell up and stop

giving advice to other countries. It's like the Catholic priests telling us a vote for Kerry is a sin, all the while they keep molesting priests on the payroll.

In other words, CLEAN UP YOUR OWN DAMN BACKYARD FIRST, before you go around the world offering advice to other countries. Most of countries no longer see us as legitimate leaders. We just have the biggest spending in defense, 420 billion a year. That dwarves all other countries.

[ally_sc]

32. now where in the...is he going with this?

Everytime i think he can not do something to piss me off more he does. this does not really fall under his job category. this is a secretary of state matter. of course he is a sitting president but does this disturb anyone else? Bizzarro...Where is Jerry Adams? I wonder if he will make a statement.

[coeur_de_lion]

34. Oh please, Dubya save it

The Irish hate Bush. There is no way they are going to listen to him about ANYTHING. He already forgot the welcome they gave him a few months ago.

What a presumptuous ass. Like he has any business telling anyone to disarm.

[dkofos]

42. They should tell him to FUCK OFF

Just my opinion.
I never was diplomatic.

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: