Green Party: Judge says no hurry to Ohio Recount -Where's Kerry?

[Imagevision]

Kerry must come into the picture. An Ohio judge found, today, that there can be a recount if the Green/Libertarian candidates want one but it won't happen in enough time to affect the electoral vote. Neither of those candidates would be affected if the recount was done now. Only Kerry's campaign has the standing to go to court and ask for a recount to be done now.

If Kerry doesn't make a move in the next 72 hours?...it's over!

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2607940&nav=L ...

[gordianot]

1. With Waldo.

[Flammable Materials]

2. Don't you get it? Kerry doesn't care. And what pisses me off ...

... is that ultimately, Nader was right.

Fuck.

[Skink]

3. We wouldn't want to inconvenience any recounters.

I'm moving to Ukraine.

[LisaL]

4. LOL.

I have grave doubts about Ukraine, considering Bush is concerned about election FRAUD down there and wants the other guy to win.

[Ima]

6. Who can get ahold of Kerry?

Can we email him?

[genius]

5. Kerry is too busy kissing Bush's feet. He should be declared Republican

of the Year. Kerry is the only reason Bush is likely to have another four years. None of the other nine would have folded. Snaglepuss had more courage than Kerry is now showing. I used to have chickens. They were all more courageous than John Kerry. If I sound angry, I am. The idea of Kerry handing Bush four more years on a silver platter is very upsetting.

[OutsourceBush]

8. Kerry, beaten my a man-Chimp

what else can you say...

[NEOBuckeye]

18. Maybe Kerry heard about the Dollar Crash & Peak Oil and got spooked?

The Economy and Energy. From 2005-2008 these issues are going to hit the U.S. with a vengeance. We're talking about a 1-2 Punch combo that is 100% guaranteed to destroy any incumbent presidency, if not bring down the entire government as well. Read all about it.

Look at it this way. Yeah, maybe Kerry could have started the reform process to try and pull us back from chaos. But our system is so corrupted at this point that nothing short of an open, all-out Left-Radical revolution is going to save it now. Kerry in four years would've likely ended up like Gorbachev, who tried to reform and revive a patient that was already irretrievably flatlined. In the end, Gorbachev was left holding the bag when the Soviet Union collapsed amidst a sea of red ink and a broken down infrastructure, much as Bush and the Republicans will be when the United States collapses after decades of mindless gluttony. Guess who will finally get all of the blame?

I really don't blame John Kerry all that much for throwing in the towel. I don't know if he realizes what is coming, but if you did, you might quietly smile about the reprocussions for which the party in power is going to suffer dearly, when the American people can no longer evade or deny reality.

[Dr Fate]

32. Mabey he will say somthing nuanced.

Say somthing nuanced John! Then say it again!

[LisaL]

33. Why did he even run then?

If you think Kerry never intended to win, why did he run?

[OutsourceBush]

7. Jesus Bush shall be president, it is God's will

Amen Jesus Bush our Lord, the anti-Christ Savior here to save the world!

/sarcasm

[Redleg]

9. Do you think it would make a difference if Kerry spoke up?

I doubt it. Bush's operatives will make sure Bush is declared winner as in 2000.

You are all using this to Bash Kerry.

[daleo]

14. It is always best to force cheats to show their hand

Even if they have a gun (in principle anyway). That way the world knows them for what they are.

[Redleg]

17. How does one force them?

Do you think Emperor Bush will allow this?

[LisaL]

19. Our strategery seems to be to wait-for something.

Until Bush's four years are over?:crazy:

[daleo]

30. Well it begins by strenuously objecting to fraud

The people in the Ukraine are showing the way.

The leadership of the party (Kerry in this case) would have to insist that all the irregularities be investigated before they would confer legitimacy on the result. The rest of the party would have to support him. That would force the media to pay attention, even if they still tended to shill for Bush. Public demonstrations would be necessary, but they don't happen in a vacuum. Again, the leadership of the Democratic Party would need to organize and support them (in association with other civic groups).

Perhaps Bush would have used the army. Certainly, he would have used the Supreme Court to his advantage if it came to that again. If so, it would force the Supreme Court to either respect the law or show its hand as a Bush puppet court.

I know it would be difficult and dangerous. It might split the country into factions. There might be assassinations. This all happened during the Viet Nam era.

But I don't see things getting better if everybody just goes along. By the way, I rather liked Kerry, so this isn't an anti-Kerry thing. I don't know why he appears to have given in so easily. Maybe he honestly thinks the election was fair. Maybe he or his family was threatened. Maybe he was afraid of unleashing forces that couldn't be controlled, and hoped to correct the system from within.

[daleo]

10. Maybe Kerry is in the Ukraine, demanding an honest election

One where the exit polls won't be so unbelievably far out of line from the published results.

One where the governing party is not coddled by a compliant press.

One free of countless voting irregularities such as ballot stuffing, impossibly high turnouts in polls that went for the government, and intimidation of opposition supporters.

One free of electronic machinery used in nearly one third of the voting districts, which can't be trusted due to a lack of auditable results.

Sorry, maybe that last one doesn't apply to the Ukraine. I might have gotten carried away.

[LisaL]

11. Yep. Ukraine used paper ballots.

I know cause I saw their election shown on the news and they put paper ballot in ballot boxes.
There-I know there is a big difference between our election and one in Ukraine!
:crazy:

[daleo]

13. Here's hoping they have a good old-fashioned paper ballot recount

It will point out the absurdity of not being able to do the same thing in the U.S., although the media will just pretend not to notice.

[LisaL]

16. There can never be election FRAUD here in the US-

don't you know?
It's all those other countires we have to be concerned with. Especially if they elect someone US doesn't like.
:puke:

[bushnboots]

23. Bush tries an end run to take focus off U.S. election fraud

Bush: Validity of Ukraine Vote in Doubt
CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush (news - web sites) declared Friday that charges of voter fraud have cast doubt on the Ukrainian election...

"There's just a lot of allegations of vote fraud that placed their election, the validity of their elections, in doubt," Bush said. "The international community is watching very carefully. People are paying very close attention to this, and hopefully it will be resolved in a way that brings credit and confidence to the Ukrainian government."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/20041127/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

[mzmolly]

12. Where do you get the 72 hour thing? Kerry can request a recount

after certification as can another candidate.

[LisaL]

15. By that time, it will be too late to change the results even

if recount shows Kerry actually won OH.

[seriousstan]

20. The first count isn't complete yet. I do have a question for the legals...

Is there a law stating that the appointment of electoral votes cannot be changed in the case of a recount? I see a lot of hand wringing and moaning but I have yet to see hard cold facts. Bush doesn't take office until January and Ohio's recount can start in early December.

[LisaL]

21. Electors are certified in December (December 13).

I don't think they can be changed after they are certified.

[seriousstan]

22. Can you back that opinion up with a link?

All I am hearing is opinion and feelings. I find it hard to believe that a recount would only be an exercise and not be able to effect change.

[LisaL]

24. Link for what?

Electors for each state meet and certify their votes on December 13.
http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/state_responsibilities.html

[saracat]

25. Not so. Read oldleftielawyer's threads on this!

A judge can put a stay on the seating of the electors if evidence of fraud or negligence is indicated. That would cause a halt to the entire process. Actually we have until Jan. 6 th protest. ( I think. The date might actually be later than that) There have been several in depth threads on this.

[seriousstan]

26. According to lizzy's link...

Failure to make choice on prescribed day

§ 2. Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct

[LisaL]

28. Legislature of OH?

Even if by some miracle OH fails to make a choice, who do you think legislature of OH would direct?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[LisaL]

27. Now, that I would like to have a link for...

No way the date is January 6 th.
:eyes:
Congress counts electoral votes on January 6 th.

[lthuedk]

29. Senator Kerry:

Is this the time to deliver what you promised? Is this your defining moment, Senator?

Would you leave your country to face tyranny alone, opting for future fixes that you know can't possibly happen? Your country is slipping into a darkness never before experienced: not in Gettysburg, not in all the world wars, not in the Cold War, and not even in Viet Nam. This time our country faces the cancer of fascism inside it's flesh, a totalitarian state that intends to be permanent.

Our divided country verges on civil war and its people look to the strongest to lead. If you don't fight the good fight, who do you suspect will? If you conceded to prevent violence, were you sure it was the right choice? Fascism preys on the weak and the benevolent because it has no compassion. It shows no compromise. No mercy.

What do you intend to do about it?

[VegasWolf]

31. "I've got your back" We'll see.n/t

[Mirwib]

34. Where is Kerry? Kerry has left the building.

[Voltaire99]

35. There's too much at stake for Kerry to get involved in this.

He has his whole future ahead of him, you know.

The coward!

[renaldo]

36. one click email to Kerry

It looks like there is a judge in Ohio who is not inclined to let third
parties carry a challenge on their own. That is why it is more
important than ever to tell Mr. Kerry what we the people want him
to do. Here is a one click page where you can send your
personal message to him, the DNC and the GAO, all at the same
time

http://www.thepen.us/e-fraud.html

[Moderator]

37. Duplicate - not LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1017450

Same story from Nov. 23rd.