CNN: Ukraine poll invalid, MPs declare (read down audiotape of rigging)

[kostya]

CNN: Poll did not reflect will of voters, parliament says

Saturday, November 27, 2004 Posted: 11:56 AM EST (1656 GMT)
KIEV, Ukraine (CNN) -- Ukraine's parliament has voted that the result of the country's disputed elections should be annulled, and the country's Central Election Commission should be dissolved.

<snip>

Yushchenko told supporters on Friday that Kuchma and European leaders agreed that the election cannot be regarded as valid because of massive vote frauds.

Earlier in the day, officials from Yushchenko's campaign released audiotapes to reporters that they claimed proved there was fraud in the balloting.

The officials said the tapes came from law enforcement officials, and say that on them, an official with Yanukovych's party can be heard saying that they need to get into the computers because the vote counts are down and they have to increase them.

CNN cannot verify the authenticity of the recordings.

:bounce:

If only we had the smoking gun on BushCo. - K

[madmax]

1. Link please

:hi:

[jdj]

9. here's one from ABC

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=285916

f"KIEV, Ukraine Nov 27, 2004 — Ukraine's parliament on Saturday declared invalid the disputed presidential election that triggered a week of growing street protests and legal maneuvers, raising the possibility that a new vote could be held in this former Soviet republic.

Parliament's vote came amid a flurry of domestic and international support for the possibility of a revote. A European Union envoy Dutch Foreign Minister Ben Bot said new elections were the "ideal outcome" for the standoff between Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych and Viktor Yushchenko. Asked if new elections were the only solution, Ben Bot answered: "Yes."

The Unian news agency quoted Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko as saying Friday that Moscow regarded a potential revote favorably an apparent significant retreat from its earlier insistence that the Nov. 21 elections were fair and valid.

Parliament's move was not legally binding but clearly demonstrated rising dissatisfaction with the announced outcome. The United States and other Western nations contend the vote was marred by massive fraud."

[LisaL]

2. What computers? They had paper ballots that were

dropped in ballot boxes.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

6. maybe counted by machine....

or counted by hand and numbers transmitted by comp? anybody know?

[wiggle-room]

3. really stupid request, but -

Somebody please summarize what happened in these Ukraine elections.

Who is who, and what happened?

[jdj]

12. the guy who lost is Kerry and the guy who won is Bush

pretty much, I think. Except Parliament just declared their election void two hours ago.

someone correct me if I am wrong.

[LisaL]

15. I am sorry, you seem to be confused.

The guy who lost is pro West and wants Ukraine to join NATO. The guy who won (for now) is pro Russia. I fail to see how you can say one is Kerry and another is Bush. Presumalby, Bush and Kerry are both pro West.
:eyes:

[jdj]

21. because the guy who lost lost because of fraud after the KGB

tried to poison him. The guy who won is their Bush.

sorry I didn't make that clear, I was comparing it to our situation.

edit: and I don't presume Bush to be "pro-west" anymore, he gets more fascist every day, along with the rest of the GOP flunkies. Or maybe we just have a different idea of what "pro-west" is.

[LisaL]

24. If KGB poisoned Yushchenko, he would be dead.

I am sure they got good poisons in Russia, even when they don't want to kill people with their poison gas (like in rescue operations) people die.
So, he would be dead if he was really poisoned, IMO.

[jdj]

27. well, I've seen the photos

what is your explanation, that this was a ploy used by him...? I don't know, I noticed in the photos that the skin tone close to his eyes and mouth was healthier than his other skin, it's just so strange, it seems, like I said at the time, like an "Alias" episode.

[sandnsea]

28. Did you see him?

Did you see the two pictures and what happened to him? How do you explain it?

[LisaL]

30. Yes, I have seen the pictures.

Nobody found any poison in his system. I presume he has some kind of disease. Not because I don't believe KGB wouldn't poison anyone, but because if they used poison on him, I bet he would be dead by now.

[jdj]

34. are you ruling out foul play on his part?

make-up? a disguise? Sorry to sound sensationalistic, but at this point nothing would surprise me. The only thing weird about the photos to me (I wish someone would post them here) was the opaque tone of his skin and how you can see that just around his eyes and mouth the skin has a rosier tone to it. But his hair is thinner and gray, in the space of what, 4 months...does anyone know of an ACUTE illness that can cause age progression like this?

[tx_dem41]

29. Their Parliament does not have the power to void the election. n/t

[jdj]

31. there seems to be some confusion about that:

"Analysts and authorities say the voiding and restaging of presidential elections is uncharted legal territory in Ukraine.

It is not presently clear whether the parliament or the courts have the ultimate legal authority to void the elections."

(cnn link)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. Was he talking to Rovie?

That man's greedy sausage fingers are in everything..

[LisaL]

5. Nah. Rovie wants Yushchenko to win.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. so he says...

have they told us the truth yet, about anything?

[LisaL]

8. Well, it's kind of obvious.

And they do not directly say they want Yushchenko to win. They say they are concerened with election FRAUD in Ukraine.
Yushchenko is pro West. The other guy is pro Russia. There really is no doubt who US wants to win Ukranian elections.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. you are probably right....

I've just gotten to the point that I question everything they say and do. me <----very jaded!

We need to find out if there were machines involved, how their system works. There are so many parallels between our election and theirs, but in a twisted Twilight Zone kind of way. I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the whole thing. Like, for instance, why is the US admin. yelling so loudly about this? Is their arrogance so blinding that they don't see they are giving us the finger every time they bitch about that election? I don't know about anyone else, but I was mad before, now I AM PISSED OFF!

ranting feel good!! :9

[LisaL]

11. The Ukrainians used paper ballots that they dropped into

ballot boxes. I saw it on the news, they showed election in Ukraine and all those people were dropping paper ballots into the ballot boxes.
That's why I am puzzled as to why they won't order a recount.
Why do they need a whole new election?
As for Bush and his administration, they made hypocrisy an art form.
It's not surprising they don't see the obvious parallels when they talk about election FRAUD in Ukraine. Black is white, and white is black for them.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

19. We dropped our ballot into boxes here

in OR, but they were counted by machine. Everywhere in the US a machine stores our numbers. I makes sense that they are using them too, but we need to find out. We can learn from this.

[jdj]

16. "more oil" values strike again.

I don't know the specifics, but when does this admin ever take a stand when it doesn't have something to do with oil or oil pipelines or mining rights or some such other rape of nature?

[LisaL]

20. Now you are getting it.

It's always about oil. Ukraine got oil.
Yushchenko wants Ukraine to join Nato, so, Bush thinks there was election FRAUD in Ukraine.

[jdj]

13. Freaking Irony: Yushenko (sp?) want a new election Dec. 12, the

day ours gets certified.

:puke:

[LisaL]

17. Why do they need a new election?

What about recounts? They had paper ballots, why isn't anybody asking for recounts? We can't even freaking get recounts around here.
:argh:

[jdj]

23. it sounds like the have alot of public support

"Hundreds of thousands of protesters have massed in the Ukrainian capital all week to protest what they insist was Yushchenko's election victory. Rising temperatures and wet snow Saturday created a sea of slush around their sprawling tent camp along a main avenue and the central Independence Square, and many Yushchenko supporters clad in orange rain ponchos were trudging down the street with plastic bags tied around their shoes.

Orange was his campaign color.

"I am not hopeful and don't have faith in talks, so I plan to stand on the square until the end," said Ruslan Pokatai, 23, of Sumy, who already has spent five nights in the freezing cold."

[LisaL]

25. He's got support, but who supports his supporters?

[jdj]

35. well, their getting shafted if it's the BFEE

they are wearing plastic bags for boots...if I were doing this for W. I'd demand something more along the lines or duckboots or wellingtons.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

14. Google shows nothing

except a blog site:
http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/corner.asp

please give us the link so we can verify. Thanks.

[jdj]

18. see post 9 for ABC link, this story is only 2 hours old. eom

[Viva_La_Revolution]

22. good article..but nothing about

the recording. we need the link to the excert in the first post.

[jdj]

26. this is the CNN story:

"Earlier in the day, officials from Yushchenko's campaign released audiotapes to reporters that they claimed proved there was fraud in the balloting.

The officials said the tapes came from law enforcement officials, and say that on them, an official with Yanukovych's party can be heard saying that they need to get into the computers because the vote counts are down and they have to increase them.

CNN cannot verify the authenticity of the recordings."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11/27/ukraine/index.html

[LisaL]

32. Audio tapes?

How do they know it's actually official from Yanukovych's party that says anything? Now, this sounds like a Rovian plot to me.

[zann725]

36. Speaking of Rove, I've always kinda hoped phone tapes would be found...

of one or more of Bushco plotting the fraud here.

If Kerry or the Dem's planned ahead, it would seem something similar could be found here.:think:

[jdj]

37. too bad Ukraine isn't on verifiedvoting.org

I am getting really confused about their voting system...some are saying paper ballots, but this mentions computers, if it is computers and the audio tape is reasonably trustworthy, then fraud should be fairly easy to prove with a recount, unless they are DREs...I guess I'm off to find out what they voted on.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

33. thanks! n/t

[Moderator]

38. Duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1025087