Germany investigates new allegation of abuse of soldiers[conscripts]

[Kellanved]

BERLIN, Nov. 29 (Xinhuanet) -- The German Defense Ministry said Monday that it was looking into new allegation of abuse of soldiers by their training officers.

Recruits were allegedly tied up during training courses at Nienburg army base in Lower Saxony state, ministry spokesman Norbert Bicher said.

The army confirmed one week ago that more than 20 training officers at another base in the state were under investigation.

In the original case, about 80 recruits were drenched in four courses conducted in mid-2004 at a base in Coesfeld.


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http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-11/30/content_2274929.htm

[da_chimperor]

1. Here's a post for ya

A German friend of mine actually had fun doing his service. Evidently his commander was really cool and laid back. It looks like these guys didn't have such a good time. It's not abu ghraib or even the US military, but I don't think anyone would like being tied up.

[Kellanved]

2. we're talking conscripts here

There are very strict rules on the handling of conscripts; the training is a lot harder for professional soldiers and actual front-line troops.

Anyway, my baby brother is stationed in one of those bases, and he in basic training there - I am quite desperate right now. I know many people who had a good time during their duty, and theirs was nothing like either the media's or my brother's report. Not even during the cold-war.

[da_chimperor]

3. I hope he's okay

I would think the army would be treading very lightly now that these allegations have surfaced. Have you read anything about it in the German press? I haven't seen anything on this as of yet.

[Kellanved]

4. yes, I think so

We were able to talk and he is not in one of the groups "abused", but nonetheless. I have the impression that they are actually trying to get the "bad guys" and not sweep it under the rug - hence the many new cases.
It is a pretty big story in the German press, naturally. I guess in this case it is an advantage that graduates from pre-Academic high-schools are drafted far more often than graduates from "lesser" schools (at the same time this means that the soldiers tend to be a lot smarter -and/or richer- than the NCOs).

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Fairly mild compared with the British Army

see this post today about the infamous Deepcut barracks:

The report contains more than 100 allegations of serious abuse at the Surrey training camp, where four young recruits died from gunshot wounds between 1995 and 2002.

It catalogues claims of rape, indecent assault, degrading treatment and racism made by Deepcut trainees during the Surrey Police inquiry into the deaths of the four recruits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1029371

[Kellanved]

6. indeed

The real issue in the German affair is that the abused were conscripts, at a time when the draft is under heavy fire in parliament (excuse my wording).
I have little doubt that there are far worse things happening to recruits for the Elite troops. Also, the "nice guy" image of the Bundeswehr is endangered by such acts, possible not just at home.

[blackhorse]

7. Perhaps

... the Bundeswehr took a pyschological turn of sorts after their mission was changed to include international deployments?

I am also hopeful that the Germans will root out the oddballs who see value in this kind of 'training'.

Elite, and regular volunteer, troops can be expected to be put through more (without the 'more' entailing straight-out weird behavior). There are ways of putting people into stressful situations to judge their reaction without S&M becoming part of it. The only time I heard of people being tied up was in training courses that simulated capture by the enemy and being placed into a simulated POW camp.

I don't recall the simulated POWs wearing orange jumpsuits, though ... ;|

BH