Venezuela's regime raids Jewish school

[PrisonerLazy8]

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200411290950

Sources report that this morning at around 6.30AM, 25 police officers raided in Caracas the Jewish school known as Colegio Hebraica. Students were meant to start classes at 7AM. Due to the 'procedure' that still goes on, classes have been suspended. The school is attended by 1.500 youngsters and children.

Criminal-turned-judge Maikel Moreno gave the order to raid the premises. Daniel Sinmack, president of the Jewish community in Caracas, just declared that this is the first time ever that such incident occurs

...more...

Never again.

[oldhat]

1. All hail the freedom-loving Hugo Chavez!

[htuttle]

2. Hey there, you skipped the last paragraph that explains the 'Why'

Allegedly the State television network, Venezolana de Television, has been reporting for days now that the Mossad is behind the assassination of prosecutor Danilo Anderson.

Do you think they are proceeding without any proof?

[oldhat]

3. Yes.

Obviously the Jews did it.

[htuttle]

4. So what, Mossad doesn't exist?

They don't do work outside Israel? They haven't ever worked at the behest of the US government? The Iran-Contra affair demonstrated all those things happening. In Central and South America, in fact.

And for remember those facts, I'm an anti-semite?

That's kind of pathetic, really.

[BayCityProgressive]

6. oh please

whenever any jewish person may be guilty of a crime, the second they are even so much as questioned everyone is an anti-semite! Yet we can throw arabs in prison with no lawyers at all via the patriot act. Give me a break and give your pathetic "anti-semite" card a rest.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[htuttle]

16. No, no, no

That's not at all what I meant. Do you think that spy agencies operate out of offices that are labeled 'CIA' or 'Mossad'? I know you don't think that.

The source for this whole story is full of crap anyway. I wouldn't be sure the event even happened until reported from another source. For all we know, it was a gas company team looking for gas leaks.

edit: speling

[oldhat]

17. Logic

Look at the logic of your post.

Chavez raided a Jewish school.

Therefore, the Jewish school was a front for the Mossad.

The Zionist enemy lurks everywhere.

[htuttle]

19. Hmm...If Chavez raided an American corporate office...

...because he thought he had proof the CIA was behind something, I would suspect that he knew the CIA had a station in the corporate office.

That is precisely the same reasoning I am using here. I do not think Chavez is a monster. If he were, he certainly would have had the entire opposition leadership executed after the coup. He definitely had the political 'capital' at the time to do so.

Ergo, I trust Chavez's motives in general until proven otherwise. If they raid a location because they suspect a foreign intelligence agency involved in something, I'm going to intially assume that they had a good reason for doing so. Until shown otherwise.

BTW, do you think that the US government doesn't use missionaries as fronts in the course of it's intelligence work? They do.

Finally, I did not use the word 'Zionist'. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop putting words into my mouth. Thanks.

[oldhat]

20. Blind faith in goverments is good thing!

[htuttle]

When Britain or the US raids a mosque in their country

...do you find you have the same reaction as to this story?

Do you have blind faith in their actions?

Do I really need 'blind faith' to simply provide benefit of the doubt until more is known than 3 paragraphs on an anti-Chavez propaganda site?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[htuttle]

29. That's an awful lot of bait for such a small hook

For one thing, Chavez is not 'former paramilitary'. He's a former Paratrooper. Huge difference. 'Autocratic tendencies'? That's why he permits the commercial television networks to slander him at every turn?

As far as 'jailing homsexuals', of course: IF THEY COMMIT A CRIME! Duh... Chavez has in fact spoken in favor of gay rights, and Venezuela's new constitution, passed under Chavez, strengthened rights for both women and gays.

[Must_B_Free]

60. Wow

looks like he now needs a new hat, you blew his old one right off his head along with his kneejerk reaction and strawman logic.

[Judi Lynn]

62. Happy to see your comments.

I've been racking my brain trying to remember if I have EVER heard of ANY POSSIBLE example of Hugo Chavez "jailing homosexuals."

I get NADA! Not once! Thanks a lot.

[Bono71]

31. I agree...it is no wonder Carter and Kerry both voiced concern

over Chavez (a fact seemed lost to many on this board).

[AP]

80. What concerns did Carter voice?

[Swamp Rat]

104. What "fact?"

[0007]

44. I think a little research on your part would find much needed answers

that may change your attitude.

[pretzel4gore]

45. i read 'house on garibaldi street' as a boy

and the heroes of that book are solidly in support of president chavez and the good people of venezuela....i know that for a fact. How Israel can support fascism/nazism racism and all that anti human crap defies logic (unless they've been infiltrated and usurpsed somehow)

[BayCityProgressive]

63. Yeah

start name calling, that's always mature :eyes: . I say "the anti-semitism card" because you take a right wing source as fact before the facys are even known about what Chavez is supposedly doing to this school. If there was a mosque in the USA with possible terror ties you cna bet we would be raiding it. There is a minority of people here who take any criticism at all of Joe Lieberman, or constructive criticism of Israel and turn it against the rest of us accusing of anti-semetism. I think that you are the one full of bull shit here.

[VivaKerry]

7. Thank you for supplying the key fact in this article.

(re below -- yes, you are due to be flamed big time). But I have to say... of ALL TIMES for Chavez people to do this. Ugh. Not good politics. It might (or might not be) good criminal investigation, but not good politics. Unless, per chance, you were trying to make friends with a whole buncha oil rich barons who are, shall we say, less then pleased with israel...

[bullimiami]

5. never "what" again? _____easy does it.

you might want to wait until we have some facts.
i see some odd blurb about state run media, the mossad and an assassination there at the bottom but kind of third hand and no actual attributions.

too little information. too cryptic.
there are a lot of possibilities that dont involve anti-semitism.
of course it is possible and of that we are vigilant but there also is a possibility that these people, regardless of religion, are suspected of some crime.



response to baycity...
You also might want to hold off judgement long enough to get facts. Telling someone to "give anti-semitism a rest" is just as narrow sighted as his original assumption.
It "could" be anti-semitic, or that may have nothing to do with it. There is way too little information in that headline posing as content.

That said, I have not seen any evidence of Chavez persecuting Jews or displaying any sort of anti-semitism in the past. There are a lot of political games going on in Venezuela and a lot of outside interference. We have no idea what this case is about.




VCRISIS. Come on the story is shit. They say right at the beginning it is conjecture and they dont know what it is about, they slander the judge, call the government a regime and then try to mix you up with a bunch of unrelated incedents.

[PrisonerLazy8]

11. Try this link for a better example

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22jewish+children%22+%2B%22never+again%22&btnG=Google+Search

[They_LIHOP]

8. That's the first time I've ever seen a DEMOCRATICALLY-elected...

...government referred to in a news article as a 'regime'.

Is this paper owned by Murdoch? Or Hollinger?

[BayCityProgressive]

12. no kidding!

The media is sickening.

[htuttle]

14. I just noticed it's vcrisis, not vheadline.com

If I'd have seen that, I wouldn't have wasted my time in the first place. After googling on the author, Aleksander Boyd, he seems to have been a fan of Pedro Carmona.

[OutsourceBush]

61. I noticed that protesters have more rights in Venezuela than they

do here in the US these days. You see them protesting all of the time and the government lets them do their thing for the most part. Whereas, we in the US will get our a$$es kicked for standing on a sidewalk without a permit.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

Then you must not remember the way the Sandinistas were referred to

in the 1980s, even after they won their elections in 1984.

[bin.dare]

9. vcrisis is not a legitimate news source

vcrisis is an anti-chavez propaganda source, not to be trusted.

[PrisonerLazy8]

13. The event against the Jewish children happened

Just because Chavez won't let the news out does not mean we can't use the only media that will report this atrocity.

[TankLV]

15. New poster - spewing right wing talking points from a questionable source.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[PrisonerLazy8]

21. Defending Jewish children are NOT "right wing talking points"

It happened and I don't trust the Chavez leadership to stop it from getting out of control. Never again.

[DrWeird]

22. The kids got the day off. They're probably ecstatic.

While there's apparently a murder investigation being held. Not terribly "tough on crime." Are we?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

25. Hey! I came in here for an argument!

:evilgrin:

[htuttle]

30. OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.

Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.

[bin.dare]

36. Monty Python, life was so simple back in those days ...

so at least we idiots thought. but ....

[jdj]

65. the word "regime" in the headline kind of give it away, doesn't it?

I read some of the articles, they are anti-Chavez and not objective.

[HuckleB]

35. How is Chavez "not letting the news out"?

Are the borders locked down? What? How?

[Darranar]

42. Please provide another source. ANY other source. n/t

[PrisonerLazy8]

73. Here's your other source

http://english.eluniversal.com/2004/11/29/en_pol_art_29A511737.shtml

[IndianaGreen]

59. I suppose you also believe in Newsmax and Faux news...

which are rather liberal when compared to the fascist crap one gets from the Venezuelan elites in Miami, who are coincidentally allied with the Miami Cuban Mafia.

[PrisonerLazy8]

68. I suppose you are incorrect

I believe in the fact regardless who provides them. But don't let the facts get in the way of ignoring the atrocities of Chavez against the Jewish.

[IndianaGreen]

75. Jew baiting won't work on this board

particularly from people that quote anti-democratic websites such as vcrisis.

[AP]

81. There isn't a country in the world that lets the media say whatever...

...they please as much as Venezuela.

If there were any truth to the anti-semitic implications of this article, not only would it be on every one of the 11 or 14 private stations that constantly slander Chávez, but it'd be on NPR and in the NYT who both don't hesitate to say the nastiest things they can think about when it comes to Chávez.

[Judi Lynn]

You've got that right. The NYT lost, as you know, TWO reporters

due to discovery they were COMPLETELY immersed and identified with the "opposition." They were Juan Forero, and Francisco Toro.

Isn't it great to know that these two "opposition" mouthpieces were feeding us our news from the one-time respected NY Times? They'd probably still be there if they hadn't been outed.

[AP]

89. Guess who's anti-semitic in Venezuela? El Universal!

And El Globo, and Primicia, and El Nacional...i.e., all the newspapers which hate Chávez seem to also have a problem with Jews.

{F}or the first time in forty years xenophobic and racist elements surfaced
during the election campaigns, including anti-Semitic manifestations in the
press. An article about the Jewish community in Venezuela, published in the
journal Primicia, in May, clearly attempted to stress the wealth and power
of the community.

...

{In addition to publishing an article by the Chilean Amabassador under the government preceeding Chavez's, and now the UK ambassaord accusing the US of being dominated by Israel} {i}n October {1999} El Universal published an article by Juan Liscano who referred to the Jews as a "spiritual disease."

Another popular newspaper, El Globo, occasionally published anti-Semitic
opinions. Rafael Bayed, for example, one of the most infamous anti-Semitic
and anti-Israel figures in Venezuela, wrote an article entitled "Jews, the
Antithesis of Catholicism," claiming, inter alia, that there could be no
reconciliation between Catholics and Jews.

ATTITUDES TOWARD THE HOLOCAUST AND THE NAZI ERA
Some tendencies to minimize the Holocaust were noted, for example, in
articles comparing the Jews of today with the Nazis. Also, an article
published in El Nacional, the second most widely-distributed newspaper in
Venezuela, claimed that although the Jews were victims, they were also to
blame for letting the Nazis do with them what they pleased. This was in
contrast to the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto, who fought for their freedom and
were thus worthy of respect, said the author. He concluded by stating that
today crimes against the Palestinian people in the refugee camps were being
committed by murderers wearing the Star of David.

http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw98-9/venez.html

That's what fascists do. They find the enemy within to blame during an election year. Notice who is blaming the enemy within? Members of the former government and the media who favored that government and detest Chávez.

[Judi Lynn]

101. It's just below the surface, isn't it?

In Miami, the Cuban right-wing extremists were claiming rights to stand close enough to the candidates for the Latin Grammy Awards that they could, as they've done in the past, throw urine-filled balloons, D-cell batteries, bottles, rocks, other excrement, rotten eggs, and spit on the Cuban musicians (arriving from Cuba) coming to the program. The producer of the show decided, after a lot of conferences with Miami city officials, that the artists shouldn't have to be subjected to this, (the Miami mafia gusanos wouldn't agree to stand one block away) so he took the show back to Los Angeles.

The Miami Cuban hate radio announcers went beserk with torrents of anti-Semetic remarks going far beyond vicious and deranged. They raved on for ages about the producer, and generated a true hatefest, a campaign against him personally. They even put up vile sign boards about him, if I remember correctly. A hate orgy, focusing on his ethnic identity.

Same behavior, same attitudes, same kind of people. They are allies in South Florida. The Cuban rightwing extremists threw an anti-Chavez parade in Miami on the day the entire world was demonstrating against the coming war with Iraq. They invited the NED-bought union official, Carlos Ortega, and another coup celebrity, Pedro Carmona to ride as guests of honor.

[NorthernSun]

18. Vcrisis biased

VCrisis sounds like it's very biased against the elected government of
Venezuela. After all, The Lukid government has been involved in several
coups and coup attempts lately, including the US.

PS: Call me any name you like!

www.timnews.com

[Algomas]

27. Indeed...

Wasn't the FBI called off its sting of Israeli/Zionist/Jewish spies? There has been plenty of discussion here of Israels hand in shaping our foreign policy as regards the middle east. Are they not an integral part of the PNAC conspiracy? Now we have our very own Gaza/West Bank in Iraq. Israel has drawn us into their racist rats nest at the expense of American blood and money.
The crime of the century...so far.

[Darranar]

49. The US does not need to be "drawn" into anything...

American crimes exceed Israeli on pretty much every level, especially since most of the more recent Israeli ones have been subsidized by US aid.

The US doesn't need any secret Israeli conspiracy to make it commit murderous aggression, it has committed far worse atrocities without much Israeli involvement.

[PurityOfEssence]

26. Well, that should get the neocons' knickers in a twist, shouldn't it?

Couple this with Chavez' recent dalliances with the Russians and Iranians, stir in lots of tasty light sweet crude, and it's a yummy cocktail before the main course of the third or fourth attempt at overthrowing him, isn't it?

[Bono71]

28. I know some (many) on this board like Chavez...

He just doesn't measure up in my opinion...he certainly is not always democratic.

[Senator Lamb]

34. im suprised

very suprised. there are jews in venezuela? boy we are everywhere. i know there are some in brazil in argentina. anyway, this has been why the GOP has managed to carve off some jewish voters. despite having evil motives (armaegeddon prohpecy) for being pro-israel an jewish, especially since they have a history of anti-semitism, they have been making progress. certain leftist elements on this thread are always quick to equate jews with the mossad or sharon or the likud. just look at the comments against joe lieberman, saying he has no loyalty to america. israel has not been totaly right and has in fact killed innocents and has made the life of palestinans harder. but they were under daily attack, every day in 2002 seemed to be a suicide bomb. it was crazy. now can you have a dialogue for peace when this is happening? no, it would make the terrorists think they are winning, and seem to look like appeasement. the israeli people also become more hardline when they see their relatives and friends being blown up. so they defend themseves like any other country would. and you have to be tough in this part of the world. you have to be strong cause that earns respect. meanwhile, instead of taking the 1998 offer, the palestinan leadership, especially arafat has been corrupt had funneling millions if not billions away from the people into his own personal accounts. hes no ghandi. had they have good leadership the israelis would have made peace. well thats my rant.

[HuckleB]

43. Regardless of your opinion of Chavez.

We do not know the facts regarding this matter, and we are certainly not going to get them from this source.

[HuffleClaw]

32. ALWAYS look at the source

as nobody as yet has seemed to notice, i thought i'd point out that the site where this article comes from is clearly anti-chavez. it seems to me that someone is doing their best to paint the chavez government as anti-semetic. it reminds me of a few stories that were floated a while back that claimed venezuala was 'becoming a terrorist haven'. these smear pieces disguised as journalism are a joke. 'nuff said.

[Igel]

38. Other sources

are just a few clicks away.

I'm fairly sure it wasn't against the "Jewish children." But the search happened.

http://www.el-nacional.com/Articulos/DetalleArticulo.asp?idSeccion=63&id=52760

Club Hebraica was searched, El Nacional gives the figure of 1000 kids present, no one could to leave or enter. No mention of Mossad. Didn't say anybody was detained. The Jewish community spokesman's quotes were subdued, but wasn't happy at the hour or the circumstances.

www.elmundo.com.ve shows it on their homepage (I don't subscribe.)

Interesting thing on the front page of today's El Norte about Chavez meeting with the president of Iran.

[Darranar]

54. Did it say why it was searched? n/t

[Igel]

55. Just in connection with the homicide last week.

No details as to why.

Other newspapers carried the story, but I didn't dig deep, and don't subscribe to them. No free "internet subscription."

[Darranar]

56. Thanks. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

57. It might be expected to find an anti-Chavez turn in El Nacional

and El Mundo. I've taken a quick look around for references and see again El Nacional is mentioned as "viruntly anti-Chavez:"

Right wing Latin American media and Miami’s El Nuevo Herald treat such charges as axioms; they don’t substantiate the claims. In Venezuela, the newspapers and TV stations that charge Chavez with censorship continue to attack him. The assault appears almost in daily papers like El Universal and El Nacional, on TV channels, and radio stations. In fact, Chavez has not shut down or censored media controlled by extremely powerful and very hostile tycoons. Gustavo Cisneros, known as the Rupert Murdoch of Latin America, owns Venevision TV and Venezuela’s Playboy Channel and is a partner in Coca-Cola and other multinational ventures. He and Marcel Granier, owner of Radio Caracas Television (RCTV), own over 60% of Venezuela’s TV market.

These "beleaguered heroes," intent on saving the republic from Chavez’ dictatorship, laugh in their penthouses. In May 2004, the opposition collected enough signatures to force a referendum, but have not unified around a candidate. The referendum followed an unsuccessful coup attempt in April 2002.

During those less than two days, when anti-Chavez forces appeared to have kidnapped the President, Chamber of Commerce chief Pedro Carmona claimed he was president. Reporters from the major media didn’t even ask him. The unelected Carmona did, however, label Chavez an enemy of democracy, which he vowed to restore, with his cabinet of the rich and powerful.

Since that fiasco, some of the original coup planners have had the chutzpah to accuse Chavez of opposing democracy and call him a totalitarian, Castro-style communist/terrorist. The very people who perpetrated illegal violence to unseat an elected government now claim the word democracy. And the media does not challenge them.

One voice in the anti-Chavez chorus has a familiar ring to his voice. Former President Carlos Andres Perez gives TV and newspaper interviews as an authority on democracy and good government. Convicted of embezzlement and having given the command for army troops to fire at his own people, this mass murderer somehow claims to occupy moral high ground. And the media accepts him as if the Venezuela conflict boils down to questions of procedure, not real democracy: majority rule.
(snip)

http://www.peaceredding.org/Buzz%20Words%20and%20Venezuela.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I included more of the article for emphasis, and to inform anyone who hadn't read about the filthy, corrupt previous President Carlos Andres Perez, who was impeached for corruption.

[Igel]

64. But the quotes from the Jewish community representative

weren't anti-Chavez. Something along the lines of "important" and "it needed to be done"; the only complaint was that it was inconvenient. The stories sounded neutral. Didn't imply anti-Semitism, lunacy, or anything. If running them was an anti-Chavez act, and implies heavy-handed tactics on the part of the government there, well, no comment; not a kind of argument I engage in.

Sounds like too public a thing for El whatever to have made up.

[Judi Lynn]

72. Just saw your post.

I've NEVER heard one peep of any possible anti-Semitism on the part of the present Venezuelan government. Not one syllable.

I'd like to get a translation from a fluent Spanish speaker. God knows there are some great Spanish-speaking DU'ers.

I'll bet the investigation was made simply because the school was on property close to the murder.

It could be (((((( spun ))))) to sound like police/government harassment, but it would surely be the wrong reading of their purpose.

[Judi Lynn]

66. Is it possible they searched the school simply because it is CLOSE

to where the car was bombed? My Spanish is really rudimentary at this point, so I can't tell from the look I had at "El Universal."

I worked in a city a few blocks from a murder, and police were going through all the buildings and shrubbery and trash bins all over the place. Is it possible this could have been the actual situation?

If that's the case, I wouldn't see a reason to question their actions, but writing about it in sesationalized language, while leaving out some vital info. could present another propaganda opportunity, as in approaching a complete lie with only a few elements of truth.

[AP]

79. right on.

[bin.dare]

41. #14 #9 #18 n/t

[xerox]

33. Look over here

Its the Jews fault for everything.

[Darranar]

37. www.vcrisis.com - nice, objective site of course...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=school+raid+Jewish+Venezuela&btnG=Search+News

Apparently the only one reporting this, too....

[Igel]

40. Search in Spanish.

That way you're likely to get Venezuelan sources.

[Darranar]

46. I searched for "Colegio Hebraica" on the Spanish version...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=es&ned=es&q=%22Colegio+Hebraica%22&btnG=Buscar+en+News

This time, no results whatsoever relating to the raid....

[Igel]

50. Media call it "Club Hebraica." Go figure. n/t

[PrisonerLazy8]

74. Here you go

http://english.eluniversal.com/2004/11/29/en_pol_art_29A511737.shtml

I know it's hard to believe such a saint as chavez could allow such a crime but all bubbles eventually burst.

[tkmorris]

84. Oh for crying out loud

WHAT CRIME????? You keep referring to this incident as if something horrid occurred but you have yet to make clear exactly what it is. Police investigating a murder searched a school? So what? You go where the evidence is.

Or is it rather that it was a Jewish school that has your knickers in a twist? Again, so what? There is nothing to suggest that Chavez or the investigators did anything untoward. Even the president of the Hebrew community in Caracas said that the most distressing part of the affair was that it was done while classes were in session.

Man, that Chavez sure is a thug. Down with Chavez! Viva ..... um.... someone rich who will ignore poverty and other social issues in Venezuela so that we can all get richer without having to see poor people! Yeah that's it!

[Judi Lynn]

39. I finally found a small reference to the operator of VCrisis. Odd man.

Coup cheerleader Aleksander Boyd faces hate-Venezuela setback in Austria

by Philip Stinard

VENPRES reports: After incidents that occurred in Vienna (Austria), May
11, the Venezuelan opposition has suffered a new defeat in its intent to
create negative opinions of Venezuela's Bolivarian Revolution in foreign
countries.

According to information released by the Venezuelan Embassy in Vienna,
the Socialist Youth Party of Austria and the Movement "Hands Off
Venezuela" had demonstrated on May 11 in front of the Latin American
Institute headquarters in Vienna, where a meeting entitled
"Communications Media & Information Processes: The Venezuelan Case" was
being held by the self-proclaimed "Vienna Pro-Venezuela Group" lead by
Aleksander Boyd ... a member of the same group in London.
(snip)

According to the press release, Boyd tried to justify the private
communications media's conduct ... but he was harshly criticized by the
majority of the participants, who refuted his statements with strong,
logical arguments.

During his presentation, Boyd tried to justify the "right" of the media
to promote military pronouncements and the coup d'etat against
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez ... and to lie or manipulate the
information, all in the name of "freedom of expression."

These statements served to unmask to the public the true fascist,
antidemocratic, and unconstitutional concepts supported by opposition
coup-promoters. "Rather than freedom of expression and information, what
they wish to promote is freedom of media owners to lie and act as power
brokers to defeat the legitimate government elected by the people of
Venezuela," notes the press release.

Aleksander Boyd, a hotel bell-hop who has admitted fantasies of being a
"Ghengis Khan," lost his job near Oxford Street in London last November
(2003) and has since devoted his energies as the "brains" behind a
virulent hate-Venezuela website based in from London UK ... the website
shows he is sponsored by various US NED-funded groups in the Venezuelan
opposition.
(snip/)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:hItAExFR1poJ:olm.blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/Week-of-Mon-20040517/001601.html+%22Aleksander+Boyd%22&hl=en

[0007]

48. Where'd all those trolls go? Thanks for the fly trap.

[Judi Lynn]

52. Too much time on their hands, wouldn't you say, 0007?

Sheesh. They've never played well with others.

[PrisonerLazy8]

67. None of which has anything to do with the subject

With chavez cozying up to Iranian partisans to the hatred of Jews and now he is harassing Jewish children I'd be more inclined to focus on the issue at hand rather than look for Bogey men behind those reporting the facts.

I see no good coming from Chavez harassing the Jewish.

[Minstrel Boy]

70. The source is tainted, so it is essential to the subject.

I see no good coming from citing "VCrisis."

oy... :eyes:

[PrisonerLazy8]

86. So if your approved sources don't report it then it didn't happen

There may be only one world but we appear to live in different ones.

[Minstrel Boy]

88. Not only that,

but there's a great deal reported in approved sources that you'll never learn with your nose stuck in right-wing bullshit.

[PrisonerLazy8]

91. My nose is not stuck anywhere

Maybe you are seeing a reflection?

[MrPrax]

47. vheadline? vcrisis?...so confusing...

Oh I know...a bunch of reponses on DU coz the word 'Jewish school' is used...


"Criminal-turned-judge" ...ah the hallmark of credibility...

[bri_in_austin]

51. This thread is really scaring me...

Do people really think that Israelis and Jews are one and the same. Do you really think there is a Jewish conspiracy, run by the mossad?

If you do, you are a racist asshole.

I'm Jewish and against the Israeli occupation, and a poor social worker who works at the Salvation Army. Explain how that fits into your "Jewish Conspiracy" equation.

Many Jews are closer to Liberal than Republican, hippies rather than accountants.

If you don't understand that there is no conspiracy, then you are a biggot redneck.

[htuttle]

53. Mossad is the name of the Israeli foreign intelligence service

Of course there is no Jewish conspiracy. Who said there was?

However, Mossad does in fact exist, is fully 'on the books', has worked with the CIA, and actually trained Nicaraguan Contras in Panama during the Reagan administration.

Here's their government website:
http://www.mossad.gov.il/Mohr
http://www.mossad.gov.il/Mohr/MohrTopNav/MohrEnglish/MohrAboutUs/

The last paragraph of the article posted mentioned Mossad by name. Hence it was brought up and connected with the school.

:shrug:

The rest of what you said I don't disagree with.

on edit: speling

[IndianaGreen]

58. Never again! Never again I will believe rightwing propaganda from

the desperate Venezuelan elites.

[Gyre]

69. Please don't feed the trolls.

That booking photo could be of anybody. I seriously doubt that is the judge who signed the warrant but conveniently there's no name plate, hmmmmm. Like to see some, hell any quantum of proof, but for all the world this link looks like a exiled cuban blogger's site to me.

Methinks the poster could be another RW troll hoping to stir some shit up. Haven't we been warned already? Please don't feed the parasites!

Gyre

[PrisonerLazy8]

71. More links to the crime

http://english.eluniversal.com/2004/11/29/en_pol_art_29A511737.shtml

I'm not a RW troll so shove that remark.

[IndianaGreen]

77. El Universal is a rightwing newspaper

which played a key role in the US-sponsored coup:

Led by Cisneros, the media group, which also included Andrews Mata, owner of El Universal, Venezuela's other major daily, met with self-proclaimed interim President and big business mouthpiece Pedro Carmona on Saturday April 14, as demonstrators were pouring out on the streets of Caracas demanding Chávez' return. Flanked by one of the generals who had installed him in the presidential palace only a day earlier, Carmona asked the media bosses for help.

They obliged: shortly thereafter, the news blackout, which had started the night before, became total. Neither El Universal nor El Nacional published their Sunday editions. Globovisión's Ravell reportedly even called CNN's Atlanta headquarters to ask, in vain, that the U.S. network join the news blackout.

Venezuelans with access to cable and satellite — mostly the rabidly anti-Chávez middle and upper classes, the 20 percent not living in abject poverty — were thus able to find out that the coup was failing without leaving their homes. The poor had to go out on the streets to find out, which made them angrier — some attacked TV stations and newspapers — and probably accelerated Chávez' restoration, which happened early last Sunday.

http://www.thegully.com/essays/venezuela/020421_venezuel_media_coup.html

[PrisonerLazy8]

82. Why not post your approved list of news sources

I refuse to read your mind. Since I'm sure the list changes daily based on the news reported it may be a good idea to have a floater with the approved news links of the day.

Then after the news sources are controlled we can all be happy shiny people content with what others tell us what to read an opine upon.

[Matilda]

87. You don't seem to realise

that most of the Venezuelan newspapers are owned and controlled by
the right-wing opposition, who use their papers to push their own
ideology regardless of fact.

That they have been allowed to remain in business speaks volumes for
the tolerance and patience of Chavez. If he were a true dictator,
they'd have been closed down and jailed years ago.

[AP]

92. Does your outrage extend to El Universal's anti-semitism?

"In October {1999} El Universal published an article by Juan Liscano who referred to the Jews as a "spiritual disease."

http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw98-9/venez.html

[Judi Lynn]

95. Surely a publication of El Universal's stature wouldn't traffic in racism!

It's so UNLIKE right-wingers, isn't it? :eyes:

From your reference:

Some tendencies to minimize the Holocaust were noted, for example, in
articles comparing the Jews of today with the Nazis. Also, an article
published in El Nacional, the second most widely-distributed newspaper in
Venezuela, claimed that although the Jews were victims, they were also to
blame for letting the Nazis do with them what they pleased. This was in
contrast to the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto, who fought for their freedom and
were thus worthy of respect, said the author. He concluded by stating that
today crimes against the Palestinian people in the refugee camps were being
committed by murderers wearing the Star of David.
(snip)

[IndianaGreen]

98. "Jews refused to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour

and that's why GAWD used Hitler to punish them for their unbelief."

That's an actual quote from a Cuban CANF anti-Semite whose views are similar to the ones expressed by sources such as El Nacional.

For example:

La orden vino del tribunal 34 de control", dijo el hebreo Daniel Snimack

http://www.el-nacional.com/Articulos/DetalleArticulo.asp?idSeccion=63&id=52760

"The order came from the 35 Control Tribunal, said the jew Daniel Snimack."

At least it didn't use the term marrano, the racial slur used to describe Jews.

[Judi Lynn]

102. Hard to overlook. They are sick. Thanks for pointing it out.

I can see it clearly now. Unbelievable.

[Minstrel Boy]

78. The crime is the murder of Danilo Anderson.

The "crime" you trumpet is the investigation of his murder.

Even the president of the Hebrew community, in the link you cite above, admits "that some judiciary procedures are necessary."

Was anyone injured in "the search performed by some 25 police officers with the Scientific, Penal and Criminal Investigations Corps"?

Anyone?

Do Jewish Community Centres and schools get an exemption from murder investigations?

[NurseLefty]

83. So what are you, then??

I checked this source, BTW - it's an anti-Chavez rag, as well. You're playing this up as if gov't troops opened fire on 1,500 children. Even from your own biased sources, not a big event.
Anti-Chavez/pro-coup = big business, pro-oil = anti-poor Venezuelan.
Chavez is no saint, but neither are the people fighting him.

[PrisonerLazy8]

85. I am a realist and I don't like Chavez

He is a power monger playing off the poor and unwashed masses. He is a dictator and is laying low until enough suckers buy into his ruse and the he'll be the next Castro or worse.

The democratic tent is a big one and we all don't hang out on the fringe left edge of it.

[AP]

90. What's he waiting for? Winning the 10th referendum on his party's legiti-

macy?

From what I've read, it sounds like his government is actually DEVOLVING power as rapidly as possible because it sees it as a way to prevent fascists like the previous governments from doing what they've done in the past.

Maybe I'm reading the wrong websites. Care to let us know what you're basing your opinoin on?

[PrisonerLazy8]

93. Based on human ego

Hugo has a huge ego and it will be his downfall. His style of leadership is what starts civil wars. I pity him more than I despise him.

[AP]

97. You know his psychologist?

Name a person who has run for president of any country who doesn't have a "huge" ego. You better have a pretty firm sense of yourself if you want to lead a nation.

His style of leadership starts civil wars? It seems like it actually wins democratic elections...nine times.

Incidentally, what do you think it matters to the casual DU reader for us to know the shades of gray are in your dislike of Chávez? Why tell us you pity him? What are we supposed to make of that?

Rather than talk psychology, is there some policy of his you don't like? Is there some policy of the opposition you'd prefer?

[HuckleB]

96. Sorry, I don't buy it.

I have my problems with Chavez, but he's been elected fair and square and then some. The same cannot be said of the current opposition. Further, he has done far more for his country than his opposition ever did in how many decades in power? You don't have to live on the left fringe to see that. You do have to be a true realist, however.

[Judi Lynn]

76. I actually looked at the VCrisis article after seeing your post.

I've known about that pathetic heap for ages, so I didn't bother to read it originally, but glad I finally looked at it.

Alexsander Boyd claimed the man in the photo was the judge who had, in his earlier life, been a flat-out criminal, up to and including homicide. You really see that a lot, don't you?

Here's another photo of the judge, the ex-murderer who turned all those police loose on skul chilren.

[Minstrel Boy]

94. The anti-Chavez faction has fallen on desperate times.

I didn't know how desperate, until the strained attempt to turn this non-incident into a virtual crime against humanity.

Better, it would seem for some, to be outraged by the investigation of Danilo Anderson's murder, than by his murder.

[AP]

99. Good point.

Incidentally, the anti-Chávez people are getting all worked up because Sumate is being tried right now for taking money from NED.

I had a link about it yesterday.

[Gyre]

100. Please don't feed the trolls

They like it when they make you crazy with their crazy "logic", which is based on nothing more than fevered fabrications.

BTW, the quickest way to ID a troll is the post-number and flame-coefficient. Low-post number non-trolls keep their heads down until they achieve some "standing". Please don't feed their sickness.

How PL8 can conceive that this oblique, unsubstantiated, unreferenced link to be worthy of the LBN forum is beyond me.

Gyre

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

103. Dude!

I am archiving this thread to my PC as we speak! This has got to be the greatest flame-inducing DU thread ever! We've managed to intertwine TWO of the most divisive issues on DU (Hugo Chavez, and Israel/Palestine) into one single topic, AND added a patina of tinfoil (Mossad conspiracy theories.) This thread is like the aliens from the Alien movies - a pure, simple killing machine.

Seriously, I love you guys. This is the best thread ever. :)

[tedzbear]

105. What do you expect of a news source that is a front for the anti-Chavez...

...corporate elite? They are doing the anti-Semite smear on Chavez.

Big deal. It's nothing new...

[Swamp Rat]

106. HAHAHA! Nice try.

¡Bésamelo!

[Moderator]

107. Locking

Productive discussion has broken down.
Also, the source is suspect.
Additionally, although we appreciate alerts, do not alert on someone just because you disagree with their point of view. Post your disagreement on the thread.
There is room for discussion of both sides.