Hospitals get hostile with the uninsured

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=68bb0d7fdb2a3e15&cat=c08dd24cec417021

Hospitals get hostile with the uninsured
Congress finds those without coverage pay much more
By Chip Reid
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 7:41 p.m. ET Nov. 29, 2004After her husband died last year, Maggie Loncar was left with $13,000 in unpaid hospital bills and no health insurance. Loncar, a Wal-Mart cashier making about $9 an hour, says she had nothing left after supporting a daughter in college and another at home.



"I went to them and I said, ‘Can I work out payments?’" says Loncar. "I have no insurance, you know. I said, can I can work out some payment through the hospital?’ and they said no."

The hospital, Christ Advocate Medical Center outside Chicago, repeatedly demanded payment.


Finally, the hospital sued her and won the right to take a portion of her paycheck.


more...

What is obvious people become slaves to the Hospitals because they have no insurance!!!

[PartyPooper]

1. Maybe if her employer, Wal-Mart, offered insurance

she wouldn't be in this pickle.

:eyes:

[Zinfandel]

7. Is anybody here still shopping at and supporting Walmart?

[PartyPooper]

10. Nope. Not I. I ONLY shop at big stores like Costco

where they treat their employees properly...and with dignity and respect.

:-)

[Erika]

18. Costco Really Helps Save $

My first time in one was after the election. I won't give 1$ of my money to Walmart.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

52. Positive and negative info on Costco:

Costco has been criticized for:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cultural Impact
In 2003, the citizens coalition of the Frente Cvico Pro Defensa del Casino de la Selva, in Cuernavaca Morelos, Mexico, Canadian Committee to Combat Crimes against Humanity (CCCCH) in Canada and Social Choice for Social Change: Campaign for a New TIAA-CREF in the United States and Mexico Solidarity Network, alleged that Costco contractors destroyed murals representative of Mexican culture, a 3000 year old Olmec site and millions of cubic meters of biotic space with centenary trees when they demolished a hotel to build a huge warehouse store and paved the wooded surroundings with a vast parking lot. The coalition demanded justice for the perceived destruction of the area's cultural, historic, and environmental heritage perpetrated by Costco and its partner Comercial Mexicana.The company's private security police were also indicted by a Mexican Human Rights Commission and Amnesty International for using excessive force against peaceful demonstrators who protested against the construction in 2001. Source: CorpWatch- July 9, 2003

Human Rights
In March 2002, workers on Los Alamos Plantation in El Salvador (the supplier of Bonita bananas for many large North American grocery chains), attempted to unionize. The owner of Los Alamos, Mr. Noboa, responded by firing 120 people. In May 2002, violence broke out on Los Álamos Plantation when workers protested against poor wages and working conditions by occupying part of the hacienda. According to workers’ accounts, shots were fired, two people were wounded, and they were forced off plantation grounds by guards. The next afternoon, when workers gathered at the gate, the guards allegedly wounded seven more workers and a policeman. After the confrontation at Los Álamos, the U.S./Labor Education in the Americas Project, began pressing Costco, a distributor of Bonita bananas, to urge Mr. Noboa to improve labor conditions on Los Alamos. Source: The New York Times, July 13, 2002

Biological Diversity and Habitats
In October 2003, Costco began construction on a 148,665-square-foot wholesale store, tire center, gas station and parking lot on the Clark County Wetlands. Initially, almost 11 acres of the Costco’s prospective building site were categorized as wetlands and therefore entitled to federal protection. According to The Columbian, a Vancouver publication, a controversial Supreme Court ruling over the prairie potholes in the Upper Midwest Cost, which stated the Clean Water Act does not apply to “isolated wetlands,” or those wetlands not connected to navigable waters, led the Corps to conclude it lacks the jurisdiction to preclude development. Under the Clean Air Act, the Army Corps of Engineers has been given the right to approve permits to fill wetlands. Based upon the aforementioned supreme court ruling, the Corps granted Costco permission to begin construction on the Clark County Wetlands site and the company began building a discount store and parking lot on top of the Clark County wetlands, which hold and filter storm water and provide a transportation corridor for some 100 species of birds, mammals and other animals. Source: The Columbian, Vancouver, WA, October 8, 2003

Animal Welfare
According to PETA, Costco’s policy for the treatment of animals raised for food offers no protection for animals, and refuses to meet standards set by MacDonald’s, which require suppliers to meet basic animal welfare requirements. Source: PETA

Discrimination
Costco achieved a score of 43 on the Human Rights Campaign 2003 Corporate Equality Index which rates large corporations on policies that affect their gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender employees, consumers and investors. The 2003 HRC Corporate Equality Index rated 250 companies on a scale of 0 percent to 100 percent on seven factors. The company also achieved a score of 43 on the organization's 2002 Corporate Equality Index. Source: Human Rights Campaign

Ethics
In January 2004, Christian Brothers Investment Services urged Costco shareholders to demand that the company publicly disclose its land procurement policies at the annual shareholders meeting. Costco has previously lacked a stated policy for land procurement and use. Its practices in such locations as Cuernavaca, Mexico, Cypress, Ca. and other sites in the U.S. have led to the criticism of social, human rights and environmental groups. (see related items) Source: PR Newswire, January 7, 2004

Ethics
In September 2003, Costco warned California employees that workers’ compensation costs may force the company to relocate its packaging and distribution centers to neighboring states and resort to shipping everything to California. Costco has about 29,000 employees in California, roughly one-third of the company’s United States’ work force. Source: The Press Enterprise Company, September 17, 2003


Costco has been praised for:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ethics
At Costco’s annual shareholders meeting in January 2004, Christian Brothers Investment Services and other concerned Costco shareholders won a preliminary proxy vote for a first-year resolution that asks Costco to develop a policy for the selection and acquisition of store sites. The resolution would require Costco's board of directors to develop a policy that considers and incorporates social and environmental factors in store site selection process. The deadline for developing this policy was set for July 1, 2004. (see related alert item) Source: PR Newswire, January 29, 2004

Discrimination
Costco has a non-discrimination policy that includes sexual orientation. Source: Human Rights Campaign

Worker Benefits
Since 1998, Costco has offered domestic partner health benefits to employees' domestic partners of the same and opposite sex. Source: Human Rights Campaign

Source: http://www.responsibleshopper.org/basic.cfm?cusip=22160K
http://www.responsibleshopper.org/

[ooglymoogly]

56. for gods sake

what is important now is that cosco is blue and walmart is red very red. you can find problems with any co. i will shop at cosco and i will not shop at walmart.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

63. Look, I'm not saying don't shop there

And I'm sure as hell not suggesting that you give Wal-Mart your business. I was just offering some food for thought. After all, if "blue" companies support the same bullshit that "reds" do, how are they any better?

If you read a little farther down, you'll see that there are positives listed too. But I think we have to be careful about setting any large company on a pedestal.

[BiggJawn]

15. Yes, dammit...

Until that wonderful Costco that everyone swoons over comes to town,.
It's the only game availbable to me.

[PartyPooper]

17. I hope they're in your community soon!

In the meantime, you can order online. Happy shopping!

www.costco.com

:hi:

[BiggJawn]

20. I hope so too.

I've heard good things about them.

Order a package of TP online? Amazing thing, these Internets!

[jdj]

30. My mom is a sales ad deal-aholic, and I am a garden variety

cheapskate, and my Mom has been telling me more and more that Walmart keeps getting it's ass kicked by chain groceries on individual items. I have beaten their prices on stuff quite a bit by watching ads in the last couple months which never used to happen. (I take a certain pleasure in it, since I refuse to shop there.)

It's just a hell of a lot of work, is all, and I can see the draw of just going to one store instead of 5 or 6.

[BiggJawn]

48. I already go to 4 stores.

It's a major operation to do the weekly "provisioning"...Wally-World, Aldi, Mejier, Breadsmith, Big Lots...

Takes almost 8 hours and my ass is whipped by the time I return home and everything's struck below...

Life's hard, and then you fuckin' DIE.

Don't hardly seem fair, does it? :-)

[Carni]

71. I hear you!

My latest thing is the small ethnic bakeries and markets in my area-- I am getting kick ass bread for 1.69 a loaf (I am also the size of a house - just kidding lol)

Of course gas to run all over hell is probably evening everything out in the end and if I worked full time I couldn't so all this, but I am enjoying the hunt (or becoming so neurotic that I belong in a home)

I found an excellent old world type produce market (CHEAP) the other day and could hardly wait to tell everyone I knew--I need to get a grip!

I also do the Big Lots thing and yesterday I did Aldis as well
(and please don't anyone tell me Big Lots is right winged, because my whole world may come crashing in on me lol)

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. WalMart does have an insurance plan

for its employees. Maybe she couldn't afford it, but they do offer a plan.

[BrendaStarr]

44. Health insurance easily costs $10k a year for a family.

And then the deductibles and other costs make the insurance enarly useless except in the once in decades chance someone gets a serious illness or injury.

10K a year for decades? You could afford the illness if you could afford the insurance.

The only people who make out are those few whose employers actually pay for the insurance.

[koopie57]

2. that is chilling

especially since she was willing to work out payments anyway. Her little bit of money isn't going to make or break them anyway. $50 a month would not have hurt them the least little bit. Probably cost more to sue her.

Christ Advocate indeed!

[Warpy]

3. They have been doing this for a long time

Some people have been arrested and thrown in jail, a modern take on the debtors' prison, for not paying their bills in full and on time.

Garnishing a paycheck is one means of payment. Hospitals have also put liens against cars and homes to get payment.

Add to this the fact that people who are uninsured routinely pay three to five times what insurance companies pay for the same things, and you have a picture of insane cost shifting onto those least able to pay.

Most hospitals will adjust bills and/or schedule payments for people who are genuinely in financial trouble. The best thing is to check before you go, if it's at all possible.

[lovuian]

6. Warpy is right its really bad out there!!! Debtors Prison for dying!!!

Her husband died probably in that hospital too!!!

Its not right to put people who already stressed because of illness under more stress!!!

We really need Socialized Medicine but obviously Bush isn't going there!!!

[gaia_gardener]

51. Most collections attorneys

file a lien against any real property the minute they get a judgment. It's low cost and effective. If you sell your home, oops, you have to pay that judgment.

It's insanely easy to garnish someone - you do need a judgment but that takes so little time.

[classics]

4. Lack of a single payer system

Is really eating away at the heart of america like a cancer.

Nobody who has seen how people without insurance are treated can possibly 'believe in America' anymore.

Lack of healthcare for everyone means that poor american citizens are forced with a choice, slavery to the hospital or death.

Boy America has fallen a long, long way.

[conflictgirl]

5. Am I the only one who finds the name of the hospital ironic?

This whole issue is definitely horrible, and I suspect it's just going to get worse.

[VegasWolf]

8. No, the name completely floored me too! n/t

[XanaDUer]

14. No

It should be called Loansharks' Advocate...

[Wapsie B]

70. Very ironic.

The extent of morality for many religious hospitals is not performing abortions. Everything else is fair game. Plus they get to hide behind the cross when they do it. No better than the TV preachers IMHO.

Rule #1 of healthcare: A hospital is just an office building with beds

[KT2000]

9. Should have been shown pre-election

Hardly a word about the uninsured before the election. This was such a big issue for us.
The moral values voters were not even challenged by this awful truth. Lots of them are going to end up in the same boat.

[MrPrax]

11. Scroll Up...

More dreary news from the LandOFree©...

Oh So Sad for Maggie...

As a bummersticker once said, "America is Free, If You Can Afford It"

Go Kerry

[Cornjob]

12. I was sued for over $60,000 by my local hospital.

Even though I had offered them a settlement for about half of what they demanded.

After two years of hassling, my attorney threatened to countersue and supoena all records of payments accepted by this hospital for each item listed in their suit. He also reminded the laywers for the hospital that they would face a jury trial and that the trial schedule was about two years behind in civil cases.

They gladly settled the case for somewhat less than my original offer.

My advice to anyone sued by a hospital is to hook up with a competent attorney immediately.

[sandnsea]

19. On $7.00 an hour????

Sure. Explain that one to me.

[gaia_gardener]

50. Legal Services provide free or low cost

civil legal help for "the indigent". I don't remember the salary guidelines, but I think they were about the same as WIC. The biggest problem is that there are only a few attorneys and a lot of need.

I volunteered for 4 months - best thing I ever did. Mainly the people we represented were doing child custody, landlord/tenant, and bankruptcy. The biggest majority (easily 90%) who filed bankruptcy were doing it because of medical bills.

[sandnsea]

57. Look at what you were doing

Primarily custody and I would bet mostly custody when abuse was involved which included restraining orders. Landlord/tenant and bankruptcy, I would bet much lower on your list of priorities. There aren't enough legal aid resources to help people before they get into a complete crisis. I really don't know why people feel the need to push the idea that there's all kinds of help out there for any old body in need, when those who have been in need know there isn't.

[davsand]

65. Access to the legal system is ANOTHER serious issue!

Legal services are horribly over-burdened. Many of them have had to set priorities on what cases get attention first. Most of them have gone to (literally) a matter of life and death as the qualifying factor.

Pro Bono Programs (volunteer lawyers) do pick up a bit of the slack, but even those are limited in what they can do. Most are restricted in the scope of cases they accept, and many run out of the Legal Services offices.

Credit/Collections is low on the list of priorities.

That is why the hospital collections practices have been so awful. These are poor people who have been dragged into court with NO lawyer (after they have been harassed for payment on a debt they can't afford!) Nobody decides to get sick. This is not like they took a luxury vacation or went on a shopping spree. This is people trying to stay ALIVE and they are being raped by the system EVERY step of the way.

Laura

[MidwestTransplant]

13. It will only get worse in George W Bush's America.

[Erika]

21. You Mean Dickens/Hugo/Zola/Bush America?

I am so thouroughly disgusted with Bush voters. They voted for continuation of greed policies rather than uplifiting our country to include the needy, low-income, uninsured, in an economic recovery. Even though it's been almost a month, I still am unable to talk to known Bushies without feeling anger at their lack of a social conscience.

[depakid]

49. I know what you mean

I've basically cut off my family for it- don't talk to them much anymore if I can avoid it. They're a source of shame for me.

It makes me glad at times that I'm one who got the bipolar genes- at least I have empathy- and can see beyond the end of my own nose.

[SammyWinstonJack]

53. But members of Congress have a great health care plan

courtesy of all those who don't. What's wrong with this picture? Why are they entitled? Why do they hate Americans?

[libpunkmom]

16. Billed by ER and by the Dr.

Yep!! 3 Years ago, no insurance, I had to go to the ER. Had an abscessed cyst on my forehead.. Not only did the hospital bill me out the ass, but the Dr. that was working that night got to bill me separately for his services.. Yep.. had to pay twice!!! Took me 4 months to get both parties to agree to payments.. Finally paid off both last year..

[knitter4democracy]

23. Yup.

That's because the doctor doesn't work for the hospital but is considered an independent contractor. The hospital bills for the room, the nurse, the toilet paper, the cotton balls, stuff like that. The doctor bills for his expertise, his med school loans, his office staff, his pager and cell phone, stuff like that.

My hubby's a doctor, and he always recommends to his patients, even the ones without insurance, to do their best to come to the office: cheaper and better, more consistant care. Your regular doctor is more likely (hopefully, unless he's a total jerk-wad Republican) to work out payments, too, since he's seeing you more often.

[lovuian]

26. Yes I don't see the problem with the doctors its with the Hospitals

the prices are way out of line and they shouldn't be allowed to harass and garnish your wages like that I'm sorry they are suppose to be Non for Profit!!!

but obviously thats a Lie!!!

[knitter4democracy]

28. Not for profit depends on the state, usually

For example, it's in Michigan's (my state) Constitution that all hospitals must be non-profits, but most states allow a mix. I agree that they shouldn't be able to garnish wages--more than a bit excessive and probably not even worth the time and effort on their part.

Nothing will get better until we have a national health care system, and that won't happen until either we all seriously rise up or the rich start getting crappy care.

And, just my two cents, but it is sometimes the doctors. I know doctors who are massive Repugs and will fight for every dime they think they're owed. Thank God we still have good doctors who know it's about caring for the patients and will do whatever it takes. Unfortunately, it's the good doctors keeping the broken system going--if they all went on strike, we'd probably have a single-payer system pretty quickly.

[pfitz59]

22. 'Christ Advocate Medical Center ' sez it all....

Since when did Christ ever demand payment? I say send the bill to Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch etc...... Compassionate Conservatism my ass!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

33. "Christ Advocate Medical Center"... Who would Jesus sue?

American Christianity has truly become a joke. Christian principals for those who can pay only.

[barb162]

47. actually two of my relatives are RNs there and I believe it is

Catholic-run, for whatever that's worth.

But let me ask a question: if you ran a business where you were not paid for your services, how long would you be in business again?

The problem here is not the hospital. It's the whole fucking BROKEN system: we need national health insurance.

[Kelvin Mace]

60. What Would Jesus Do? Apparently...

...Jesus would drag that deadbeat bastard Lazarus to court and make him cough up some cash.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Deja Q]

24. 'Christ Advocate Medical Center'? Did they come from the parallel universe

where Jesus was evil and Satan was the good bloke?!

[jdj]

31. LOL

they are from the land of 1984

[flaminbats]

40. Christ Advocate Crucifixion Center would be better..

"And they clothed him with purple and platted a crown of throwns, and put it about his head, And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews! And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him. And when they had mocked him they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him."

[davsand]

25. I have been fighting that fight in Illinois for over three years now.

I served on a board that asked the IL Dept of Revenue to strip a local Catholic hospital of its property tax exemption for NOT providing charity care (along with multiple OTHER violations of IL Property Tax Code...)

Over 80% of hospitals in the US are incorporated as "Non-Profits" meaning they are seen as tax exempt by the IRS. Those same hospitals are usually exempted from Property Taxes by the state and local authorities. In other words, WE ALL subsidize this behavior...

We are all paying for the privilege of having a hospital in our community that sues poor people, charges them higher rates and then harasses the hell out of them when they can't pay the bill in full on demand.

I saw a court case where the hospitals' collection attorneys had demanded copies of a woman's mental health records because she could not pay her bill.

I met a man who was arrested out of his front yard--in front of his kids--for missing a court ordered payment to a hospital.

I know a man who was taken to the hospital after he tried to commit suicide and ended up fifteen years later owing MORE on his bill than the day he left the hospital--in spite of the fact that he'd made payments when he could!

At the same time, the hospital (a NON-Profit, I remind you!) was transferring money OUT of the local community and into a for profit arm of the corporation at the other end of the state...

I spoke last week to a room full of taxing officials at the statewide meeting about this very issue. Those hospitals are NOT acting like a charity--but they want the benefit of being one. One of my fellow Board of Review members spoke to the Chicago City Council Finance Committee today on this same subject...

I can quote for you the exact sections of the IL Property Tax Code that MAKE those hospitals liable for taxes. I can TELL you the names of legal cases from this state that make that hospital's collection policies incompatible with Property Tax Exemptions. You can fight this locally, and I will do all I can to help you.

It is wrong. It is DEAD wrong and I have been speaking out about it loudly and passionately to anyone that will listen--and a lot of people HAVE listened. Do a Google search on Provena + "Property Tax Exemption" and you can see what a shit-storm we started nationwide. You will find articles from the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and several others. (Lucette Lagnado wrote a front page article for the WSJ about collection tactics used here in Illinois.)

This is NOT going to go away, and the hospitals are being forced to look hard at collection practices as well and charity care policies and use of facilities.

Do not give up. PLEASE!

Laura

[lovuian]

27. You Go Girl!!! Awesome!!! I might add these hospitals are Monopolies

there is no competition between them they set the enormously out of bounds prices!!!

It is a cancer that is eating every American's pocket book and livlihood

[knitter4democracy]

29. Thank you!

I've printed out your post for my husband to read. What that hospital administration has done is sick. They must have forgotten that dang Hippocratic oath they recited when they got their white coats.

[Andromeda]

39. You are wonderful!

It pleases me immensely to know that people like you are in our communities looking out for all of us.

For so long I have been livid with anger when questionable collection tactics have harmed innocent victims of misfortune and their families. Their actions cause untold misery and they need to be stopped.

[mike_c]

42. laura, please accept my heartfelt thanks for what you're doing....

Thank you. :toast:

[davsand]

46. What we are doing is the RIGHT thing.

I started into this as a government official who was trying to do the job I was entrusted with. I am dead serious, I picked up the cause initially because it was a part of my job to review tax exemptions. Within about fifteen minutes of looking at the financial audits and the other reports from the hospitals I was convinced the entire mess was rotten.

The only thing I can compare it to is pulling a string out of a bag of yarn--when you pull one string out of the bag, about fifty more come with it--and every ONE of them is attached to something ugly and hurtful. A lot of the time they will tell you that it is "common hospital practice." My response to that was always one of abject horror.

Most hospital execs are NOT Docs. Most of the guys running those non-profit hospitals are making HUGE salaries--some of them over half a million a year. (The last word I had from an insider was the IRS is looking at Executive Compensation in non-profit hospitals, BTW.) These guys are CEOs NOT people committed to health care or people in need. These same over-payed CEOs admit freely that they have NO idea who is being sued by their hospital or WHY people are even being sued. They just assume it is lack of payment...

The hospital tax exemptions date back to a time when the hospital was where you went to die if you were poor. People with money were treated at home by the Docs who CAME to them. Only the poor went to a hospital, and usually those hospitals were associated with a religious institution or a college of Med or even a municipality. These really WERE places of charity, in those days.

Fortunately, medical science has improved. Now, you go to a hospital to get well, and you go if you can afford it or else pay for it for the rest of your life. We have done a complete turn around from the time when hospital policy was set by a handful of tired nursing nuns sitting around a cafeteria table on Jan One.

Now, policies are set by a CEO who is paid a huge amount of cash to make sure a hospital remains profitable. These guys often get "performance bonuses" based on profitability. (Which IMO is a huge violation of the entire concept of Non-profits according to the IRS definition. According to the IRS, nobody is supposed to personally benefit from the money made by a non-profit...)

I don't mean to sound melodramatic, but people are DYING from a lack of health care. We have people who stay home to die because they have no insurance or are afraid of losing everything they have when the insurance doesn't pay all of the bill.

I have been screamed at by hospital lawyers and I have been painted as some kind of radical. I have lost friends, and I have faced political pressure to just sit down and shut up. I have also been warned by people inside the industry to be careful of my personal safety (which I think is probably a bit over dramatic but worthy of mention because it illustrates how badly hospitals are viewed.)

This is not a solution to the health care problem. We have uninsured people at a record number, and there is not enough charity care to ever provide for all those in need. What this is, however, is a way to force the legislators and the government to PAY ATTENTION to the issue. They need to fix it, and the only way it will happen is if government steps in. The only way that ANY substantive change will ever happen is if the hospitals ASK the government to intercede.

Peace to you all.


Laura

[pookieblue]

67. Laura

All I have to say, is Bless you for all that you are doing.

[GinaMaria]

59. Laura, we must talk more

I'm working on something to help the uninsured in Illinois. It sounds like you have lots of info. Can I PM you?

[davsand]

61. Absolutely! I got your PM, and I am digging thru materials for answers.

I should have some kind of info for you later on--either this evening or tomorrow. Part of my files are at home, and part of them are here in my office!

Thanks for asking!

Laura

[Spangle]

34. Insurance pays a discounted price

Insurance pays a discounted (agreed) price.

Non-insured don't have that kind of leverage.

So, the non-insured pays $10 or so for a cotten ball, the Insurnacce pays much, much less.

If they are going after the poor and putting them in jail.. Then their excuse for charging $10 for a cotten ball just went out the door. The excuse before was that paying people/insurance had to pay $10 for 1 cotten ball to help pay for all the ones given away free to those who don't pay.

[salin]

45. *sigh*... and the bushies next round of tax cuts appears to want

to make this situation more common - as they consider paying for their mix of more tax shelters for high income and corporations by ending the deduction of state and local taxes AND cutting out the tax incentive for corporations to provide health insurance to employees.

So, in an era where health insurance increases in cost in double digits over a couple of years (some recent years, I believe the double digit increases were in a single year)... the bushies consider making it even more expensive to corporations - by taking out the subsidy... now how many companies - esp in an era of higher job insecurity (making it an employers market) are going to keep offering health insurance benefits if this "plan" were to move forward?

[allalone]

35. Christ Advocate hunh?

anybody know how much Jesus charged those people he cured?

[Sugarbleus]

36. I saw this on TV this evening...

I've read even more bizarre tales of hospitals coming after people and threatening jail for them! Sheesh.

Apparently, this woman was finally sued where the hospital started taking chunks of cash out of her paycheck....Me Thinks, hmmm, why didn't the hospital let her pay in installments, it's practically the same thing as attaching her wages but without all the court expense etc... :crazy:

Seriously, this is a disgraceful way to treat people. My sister is a widow now for just over a year. Her husband came down with Leukemia almost out of the blue. They had JUST purchased a country house. He was JUST getting his refrigeration business going--no insurance yet.

Brother n law had Medicare from a partial disability, but just one part. He fell suddenly sick, they rushed him to hospital where he was airlifted to a university hospital. He was in there for six weeks. They got him stablized and told him to do his check ups with his own doc in his own town.

The COST OF THE DRUGS were astronomical. Their savings went down quickly. The doctor close to his home was not equipped to deal with his illness so they sent him 40 miles down the hill into MOdesto for recurring checkups. His doctor ended up being Dr. Levy--(Gary Condit fame) Poor Doc Levy was so out of it with the death of his daughter that he failed to treat my Bro n law appropriately. They sent my sis and her hubby back and forth from this place to that one, removed and added drug therapies that messed him up MORE. Now he's in a wheelchair.

Finally, he had a relapse and had to go back to the Sacto University. They didn't want to take him because he had overstayed his Medicare allotment and wanted money up front! SOMEHOW, they let him in. All this time, my sister stayed by his side; through the hospital stays in a Kawanis house, by his side at home and in other hospitals, finally by his side in the last hospital. She ran out of money, I gave her some. Eventually my bro n law died. He was so full of holes and tubes and bald and sick....I never did get over it.

Now, the hospital is trying to get her house...the house that bro n law LOVED soooo much and waited a lifetime to have. We had just celebrated our first "family" gathering that Thanksgiving before he got sick..just before USA invaded Iraq.

The threats to my sister's house, life, peace of mind is unfreakingbelievable!!! She sold everything she could pull up in order to make some payments. She is STILL GRIEVING fercrissakes! I think she finally put her house into homestead or living trust......still they are after her. My sister doesn't even have health insurance herself.

FUCK THIS SYSTEM......

[Straight Shooter]

37. Christ Advocate? Lazarus would remain dead under their rules.

"Show me the money. This is no place for miracles."

They could really get into the irony by renaming themselves Compassion of Christ Medical Center.

[Swamp Rat]

38. Holy fucking bat shit! "Christ Advocate Medical Center?!?"

What a name!

I'd tell 'em "fuck you! Sue me and throw me in debtor's prison! While I'm there, I'll complete a law degree FREE, then when I'm released I WILL SUE EACH OF YOU PERSONALLY!" :grr: Bastards!

[Erika]

41. I would expect any group playing Christ Advocate Status

after this display would certainly keep away from lightning. St. Peter will talk with them soon enough.

[Swamp Rat]

43. ... and then put them on the "Down" elevator.

[neverforget]

54. Christ Advocate(s) for getting his due! Go Jesus! Sue the poor!

Jesus wasn't really a poor carpenter, he was actually a wealthy HMO executive who demands to be paid! All that stuff in the Bible about helping the poor is nothing but lieberul propaganda! :eyes:

[Ilsa]

55. Wal Mart has run out our Toys R Us store.

They will close mid 2005 because Wal Mart underpriced their toys. I asked the TRU employees there what their benefits are like. They said they were covered by health insurance the first day they reported for work.

My guess is that 2-3 dozens jobs will be lost because of this closing, and those people will end up on Medicaid.

I haven't been to our walmart in about 18 months, since I made the commitment to boycott them.

[GinaMaria]

58. If you could propose a plan to the insurance companies

that would cover the uninsured what would it look like? I'm seriously asking for ideas. A co-worker and I want to work on something for people in our state. We have quite a few uninsured here.

Does anyone have any info about cost, covering costs, setting up a network of providers etc?

[alexisfree]

62. that is why we have a lider...

[SoCalDem]

64. She should have just started sending them $25.00 a month..

as long as she was paying them what she could afford, they would have never been able to do what they did.. If they cashed her checks, there would be an implied acceptance..

Her next best thing would be to just declare bankruptcy, and "lose" the debt..

If she cannot pay...she cannot pay.. It's as simple as that..

[davsand]

66. MANY collection agencies harass clients for larger payments.

It is no secret than many of the collection agencies that hospitals use will not allow the $25 payment you speak of. If you offer a lower payment they sue you anyway. Even IF you are making payments some of them will sue you because they want larger amounts.

I have heard many stories of both hospitals AND collection agencies that tell people they need to pay the entire bill off in ten or twelve installments--period. There is no negotiation about what the payment amounts will be.

Additionally, many hospitals have become increasingly more rapid in turning people over to collections. Some turn accounts over to a collection agency on the 31st day.

Many people who get dragged into court have no lawyer with them, and as a result, they get intimidated into damn near anything... I am very serious when I say this is a predatory thing.

Laura

[SoCalDem]

68. Then she should just declare BK and be done with them...

Why live with the torture.??

[davsand]

69. Close to 75% of all Bankruptcies filed contain medical debt.

Something that should REALLY be a wake up call to the hospitals? Many of them acknowledge that they only manage to collect about 5% from the poor people they bill and sue...

ALL this misery is driven by a lousy FIVE percent.

One thing in the works nationally, is an attempt to make hospitals realize that it is fiscally MORE productive to bill the uninsured at the lower rates (that insured people get) and to negotiate reasonable payment plans with them. The rate of payment on those accounts is a LOT higher.

There is a huge mis-perception that people don't WANT to pay hospital bills. In actual fact, many people WILL pay a hospital bill if they are allowed to do it in a way that they can afford. There was a man in New Haven, Connecticut who was still paying on his dead wife's hospital bill over 20 years AFTER she'd passed away.

I've seen other consumers with similarly strong personal ethics...

Laura

[purduejake]

72. I was just going to recommend bankruptcy...

or at least threatening it. That's when people start to work with you and even forgive debt. I guess there is such a thing as just medical bankruptcy. I was in a bad car accident and the insurance company is refusing to pay and I won't have the money to do it until I get money from the lawsuit, but the doctors and hospitals are treating me like shit.

I am lucky though. Hang in there people, and best of luck.

[PsychoDad]

73. Christ Advocate Medical Center

Isn't this false advertising?

Wouldn't Moloch General be a better name?