Nov. U.S. Death Toll in Iraq Nears Record

[fryguy]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20041130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq

U.S. military death toll in Iraq rose by at least three Monday and the November total is approaching the highest for any month since the American-led invasion was launched in March 2003.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[Straight Shooter]

1. Shhhhh. Don't tell our great "leader." He thinks it's all peachy-keen.

God will eventually take over and all will be saved.

:eyes:

[bluestateguy]

2. A year from now, those numbers will seem moderate

More troops are on the way, which only means more targets for the resistance to attack and kill. 100-150 dead a month could become the new equilibrium of casualties, meaning that a "bad" month could be sometihng like 200-300 dead a month. A year and a half ago the normal death rate for a month was 30-40. Now it's 60-80.

Saddle up, this is going to get a lot worse.

And the American people voted for this too.

[soup]

3. meanwhile

Military recruiters target schools strategically

By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | November 29, 2004

POMFRET, Md. -- Military recruiting saturates life at McDonough High, a working-class public school where recruiters chaperon dances, students in a junior ROTC class learn drills from a retired sergeant major in uniform, and every prospect gets called at least six times by the Army alone.

Recruiters distribute key chains, mugs, and military brochures at McDonough's cafeteria. They are trained to target students at schools like McDonough across the country, using techniques such as identifying a popular student -- whom they call a "center of influence" -- and conspicuously talking to that student in front of others.

Meanwhile, at McLean High, a more affluent public school 37 miles away in Virginia, there is no military chaperoning and no ROTC class. Recruiters adhere to a strict quota of visits, lining up behind dozens of colleges. In the guidance office, military brochures are dwarfed by college pennants. Posters promote life amid ivy-covered walls, not in the cockpits of fighter jets.

Students from McDonough are as much as six times more likely than those from McLean to join the military, a disparity that is replicated elsewhere. A survey of the military's recruitment system found that the Defense Department zeroes in on schools where students are perceived to be more likely to join up, while making far less effort at schools where students are steered toward college.
>snip<

and a jump to a quote on page 2 of the article:
"The kids with more options, we don't bother with them."
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/11/29/military_recruiters_pursue_target_schools_carefully/

[Crunchy Frog]

5. This is why I'm actually hoping

they bring back the draft. Our society voted for this atrocity and it should share the burden for it equitably. The present system allows spoiled rich brats and their parents to vote for it without paying the cost, while forcing poor people are forced to pay for it with their and their children's blood.

I hate the war, and I hate the idea of a draft, but I hate this unequal distribution of the burden of the war that our society chose even more.

[Paleocon]

7. I agree on the draft...

As much as I am against it because it makes citiznes slaves of the state, I think it is the only way to WAKE PEOPLE UP and force them to think about what is going on in Iraq and everywhere else we feel we need to stick our big noses in and fix.

You'd have more at stake if it was your son or daughter and not just some stupid magnet on the back of your car... :think:

[soup]

15. Either way, it's my 17 year old son

my worry my fear my tears

A target here - to become a target there.

He's on the opt-out list at school. We still receive unsolicited beautifully colored, exciting brochures in the mail, but we can throw them in the trash -

A 'Greetings' letter is not so easily discarded.

I hope you won't take offense, Crunchy Frog, but I have to wonder if the people who are hoping for a draft are of draft age themselves, or have children in that age bracket. Would you go? Would you give your child? Would a draft be an 'equalizer'? Would it bring us any closer to an end? I'm not so sure, and I definitely don't want my sons' lives put on the line to find out.

I am awake. didn't chose it - didn't vote for it - and don't want to lose my baby - or my 21 year old son in the process.

It may be really selfish of me (there are a lot of 'I's in this post), but I don't want either one of them to become one of the already gut-wrenching ongoing #s. There's enough pain already. Too many tears, too much rage - over every death - man, woman, child - for those 'counted', and for those who are not.

I can't even pretend to have a solution, but there's no pretense when I say tears fall for them all.

Please, stop hoping that my sons will be forced to join in this insanity. :-(

[Crunchy Frog]

16. I don't want your sons to get drafted

and I agree, there's a big difference between when it's theoretical and when it's personal like it is for you. My only contention is that if it doesn't become personal for a whole lot of people, no one is going to care and the death and destruction is just going to continue, and young people who have no other options are going to be effectively forced to serve, while members of higher social classes continue to support it without experiencing any cost.

I intend to do whatever I can to help young people who don't want to be drafted avoid it. I plan to get involved with my local Friends Meeting to work on CO issues.

There's nothing that I can do to stop the draft, and I think that it is the only thing that might knock people out of their complacency and get them to take real action.

This whole thing is a horrific tragedy and it never should have been allowed to happen. I think it did, exactly because not enough people had any kind of stake in it.

I'm really sorry. I have a 16 year old nephew who's also at risk. I didn't want any of this to happen, but since it has, I don't think it's right that the burden should only be on the poorer social classes. :(

[Paleocon]

17. I did a tour in the Army...

It wasn't the worst thing in the world.

My point is that until this "was on terror" starts affecting regular people every day nothing will change.

I (and Mr. Frog) didn't say that we wanted your son or your daughter specifically, we said that we wanted someone's sons and daughters. Preferably the ones that have two yellow ribbon stickers on the back of their vehicle showing everyone how much they "support the troops".

I know it's hard to believe, but sometimes it isn't all about you...

[Crunchy Frog]

18. It's Ms Frog actually.

And I have one of those yellow ribbons on my car, along with my pro Democrat, anti-Bu$h stickers. I don't have it up because I support the war, but to show that you can oppose the war and the Regime, but still support the troops.

I'm entirely sympathetic with how she's feeling. I don't have kids yet, but if I did and they were draft age, I'd be feeling exactly the same way.

I hate having to feel the way that I do about the draft, but I honestly believe that it's the only thing that will begin to make people in this country understand that they have a real stake in this country's policies. That's the only thing that's going to make them begin to take responsibility for their political choices.

[Paleocon]

20. My apologies....

All the Crunchies that I know are male... Pleased to meet you.

I can totally sympathize with your position. I wouldn't want my son or daughter serving in this military either, but like you said, unless you trully have something at stake there is no incentive to take this "war on terror" seriously.

I refuse to put one of those ribbon stickers on my car or truck. If I could find one that says "Support the troops? Bring them home NOW!" I would put that on there.

Anyway, again, I am sorry to have called you a Mr. If you are ever in NJ or Eastern PA I owe you a beer, or whatever it is that Crunchy Frogs drink... LOL...

Have a good day.

[Endangered Specie]

4. Don't worry I'm sure they are all in heaven

:eyes:

I wish some of these bible thumpers would expedite their journey to heaven and spare us all the misery.

</rant>

[independentpiney]

6. Now the deadliest month

Just heard on msnbc- huge carbomb just hit a us convoy by the airport- no casualty count yet.

[TNOE]

8. This deserves to be back on front page

so I'll :kick:

If ONLY the rich kids had to go - I'd be for a draft too - but they won't, somehow there will be a way for the rich to buy their way out, as always.

[TNOE]

9. Wall Street Journal today

says "at least" 133 dead this month.

[jmcgowanjm]

10. Google -As-Saqlawiyah out of control

The US military has prevented an aid convoy from reaching
the besieged city of Falluja, a doctor based in Baghdad
who accompanied the convoy
says.

"The Iraqi ministry of health asked us to go to Falluja. When
we were on our way, the US army stopped our convoy,
and carried out a search," said Dr Ibrahim al-
Kubaisi.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F0A47D67-7D17-4140-A992-2AEC1CF0624A.htm

Compare to this:

Iraqi Red Crescent relief convoys make their way to al-Fallujah
to aid population, despite US obstruction.

An official spokesman for the Iraqi Red Crescent reported
that the IRC sent three relief convoys into al-Fallujah on
Monday. The convoys carried medical and nutritional
materials, blankets and bedspreads in order to give
the residents of the city some protection against the intense
cold that strikes Iraq at this time of year.

Firdaws al-‘Ibadi told Mafkarat al-Islam in Baghdad that the
IRC also opened two centers inside al-Fallujah, the first in
the al-Hadrah Mosque, and the second in the home of
Shaykh Khalaf ash-Shadid al-‘Isawi located in the ash-
Shurtah neighborhood. Nutritional supplies that are sent into
the city will be available in those two centers. -IRR

[jmcgowanjm]

11. Running battles 200 tanks just W of Abu Ghurayb

Monday night: fighting continues east of ‘Amiriyat al-Fallujah as Americans run into problems.

In a dispatch posted at 11:05pm local time Monday
night (10:05pm Mecca time) Mafkarat al-Islam reported
that battles continued east of ‘Amiriyat al-Fallujah.
The correspondent in the area reported that the zone of
combat extends from ‘Amiriyat al-Fallujah to 13km to the
east, and that there is particularly intense fighting in the area
of al-‘Ujayr village, 10km east of al-Fallujah. Fighting in
those areas has continued since Monday morning,
the correspondent reported, but grew more intense after
sunset.

Resistance fighters have used various types of
rockets - including the Grad, Tariq, large and small Katyusha -
in addition to 60mm, 62mm, and 120mm mortars, and
C5K rockets. From 6pm to 7pm local time, the Resistance
fired more than 15 Tariq and Grad rockets at the US
attackers.

The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent personally saw three
US Marine Humvees totally destroyed. He also saw a
destroyed British Land Cruiser. The correspondent wrote that
he saw two large US Chinook helicopters land, remain for
about half an hour and then take off, leaving the area with
dead and/or wounded invader troops. The helicopters
also evacuated the wreckage of US
Humvees.

The US and British had massed more than 200 Abrams
tanks, Bradley armored vehicles and other vehicles in addition
to 150 Humvees backed by helicopters and fighter aircraft.
The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported that the
invader troops were trying to wipe out the Resistance in
‘Amiriyat al-Fallujah, where their attacks were inflicting losses
on the rear lines of the US troops surrounding the city
of al-Fallujah to the north. The invaders were therefore
engaged in launching wave after wave of attacks on
the Resistance fighters in ‘Amiriyat al-Fallujah.

US forces are attempting to advance into the area,
the correspondent reported, but bombs planted by
the Resistance are obstructing their progress and giving
them considerable problems. This has prevented the
Americans from bringing all their forces into the area of
combat, forcing them largely to encircle the area only. For its
part, the Resistance has managed to make the center of
the fighting far from the US troops, increasing their problems
as they have to pass through agricultural farms and fields
where they are subject to frequent direct Resistance
ambushes.

[jmcgowanjm]

12. Brit Embassy: advised against taking commercial planes.

And don't use the Airport road either!

Whatever lies Blar may spin, the Brits now officially concede
that the Iraqi liberation forces control the airport and are
capable of attacking anywhere in Baghdad. The Brits are
now counting the days until the evac choppers come in and
pull them out of their Dien Bien Phu.

http://news.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=588095&host=3&dir=75

Report Totals Fighting For 29 Nov

U.S Soldiers killed..............140

Humvees Destroy/Disabl 21
Bradley Fight Veh 10
Trucks/Tankers 2
APCs 2
Abrams Batt Tanks 6

IRR Monday- 112904

[jmcgowanjm]

13. At about the same time, something occurred that astonished us completely.

The embassy had been guarded by a platoon of Marines,
under a captain. Now that guard force was reduced to a
squad, under a gunnery sergeant.

Since this is my story, I will interrupt this sad tale to explain
what I was doing. I was having a really bad feeling about
the situation. It seemed to me that the top brass in the
embassy were far too sanguine about it. I started to
arrange early departure orders for my wife, using the excuse
that she wished to rejoin our children in northern Virginia.

http://www.thehistorynet.com/vn/blciaofficerinsaigon/index1.html

The epitaph for the U.S. involvement in Indochina had been
given earlier that month before the fall of Phnom Penh
in neighboring Cambodia. Just days before his execution at
the hands of the Khmer Rouge, Cambodian statesman
Sirak Mitak penned a final note to the U.S. ambassador
refusing his offer of evacuation.

"I cannot, alas, leave in such a cowardly fashion. As for you
and in particular for your great country, I never believed for
a moment that you would have this sentiment of abandoning
a people which has chosen liberty....You leave and my wish
is that you and your country will find happiness under the
sky.

"But mark it well that, if I shall die here on the spot and in
my country that I love, it is too bad because we all are born
and must die one day. I have only committed this mistake
in believing in you, the Americans."

http://historynet.com/vn/blthebitterend/index2.html

[fryguy]

14. commercial flights to Baghdad?

I didn't even know they existed at the moment....guess its still not something that can be purchased on Expedia or Travelocity though...

[jmcgowanjm]

19. Remember, Year of Living Dangerously?

After landing, crew perform a quick walkaround to
check fuselage and wings for bullet holes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6590586/