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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 11:43 PM
Original message
Oil prices under the weakened dollar influence
http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2004/11/30/57321.html

Oil prices under the weakened dollar influence

00:57 2004-11-30
Crude oil futures rose to within a quarter of $50 a barrel Monday after a gas leak shut down a North Sea oil production platform and as traders weighed concerns about heating oil supplies against the fact that temperatures have been mild in recent weeks.

snip...


OPEC will not consider switching from dollar-denominated oil sales despite the decline in the value of the US currency, the oil minister for the world-s leading crude producer Saudi Arabia said.

Previously cited by the Organization of the Petroleum Countries (Opec) as justification for keeping oil prices high, the weak dollar has sliced heavily into the purchasing power of Opec countries for goods and services from non-dollar economies like the eurozone, reports Indian Express.

more...
So if Opec keeps its oil in dollars then the price will go up as the dollar goes down!!! Any bets on what gas will be up to in February!!!
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't even want to think about it.
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. $5.60 to $15.14 -- per GALLON!!!
$5.60 to $15.14 -- per GALLON!!!

That's no joke.

:wow:

$5.60 to $15.14 -- per GALLON!!!

Say it with me again...

$5.60 to $15.14 -- per GALLON!!!

:wow:

This is actually the range where we should be now. But we are being "shielded" from reality by the powers that be who have an interest in keeping this whole oil-powered economic machine going. If we actually had to pay $10 to $15 dollars per gallon of gas tomorrow (roughly what I pay now to fill up my tank every week) the economy would immediately come crashing down, and we'd see the start of a Second Great Depression.

The good news? Goodbye Hummers, SUVs and other wasteful guzzlers of Oil. Development of mass-transit systems (e.g. train, bus), alternative energy vehicles and power sources would explode.

Read more about it below. These days are very likely just around the corner.

--
Energy Supply and Pricing for a Sustainable Future

---snip---

...The Canadian – and US – governments have generally responded to this instability with interventions designed to restore stable low prices for conventional fossil fuels. Even while ratifying the Kyoto accord (which is designed to reduce CO2 emissions), Ottawa is doing everything it can, including ruling out a carbon tax, and exempting the auto industry, to ensure that the oil and gas and automotive industries are minimally affected. While this may be good short-term politics it is bad economics and lousy environmental policy. And it won’t prevent even steeper price increases in the near future. To avoid a serious energy crisis in coming decades, citizens in the industrial countries should actually be urging their governments to come to international agreement on a persistent, orderly, predictable, and steepening series of oil and natural gas price hikes over the next two decades. The present world energy market obscures the true price of hydrocarbon fuels and inhibits the development of alternatives.

This argument comes in two parts. The first is neatly summarized in a 1998 report by the Washington-based International Centre for Technology Assessment on “The Real Price of Gas”. The purpose of this report was to quantify the numerous external costs associated with the use of fossil-fuelled motor vehicles that are not reflected in US consumer prices. Such hidden costs range from various tax and direct subsidies to the oil industry from governments, through publicly funded infrastructure costs, to the health and environmental costs associated with burning fossil fuels (e.g., breathing ‘second-hand exhaust’). These direct and indirect subsidies seriously distort energy markets, burden the economy with rampant inefficiencies, and in the process, are helping to destabilize the world’s climate.

Depending on the range of subsidies included and the quality of available data, the total unaccounted cost of fossil fuel use in the US was found to lie between $559 billion and $1.7 trillion dollars annually. A fuller social cost accounting for the use of fossil fuel would therefore result in a gasoline price per gallon of between US$ 5.60 and US$ 15.14. In Canadian terms, this would be roughly equivalent to a price per litre of between C$2.20 and C$5.95, or three to eight or nine times recent Vancouver prices (i.e., before the current price surge related to reduced exports from Venezuela and the threat of war in Iraq). In other words, even with the burden of existing taxes, prevailing energy prices do not ‘tell the truth’ about the costs of using fossil energy – North Americans pay a fraction of the price they would pay for gas in a perfectly functioning market.

In fact, US consumers enjoy the most under-priced fuel available in any major industrialized country and Canadians are really not that far behind—with predictable results. As every economist knows, the invariable consequence of under-pricing is overuse. Wealthy and middle-class North Americans live in ever-larger energy-inefficient houses, drive ever-bigger and less fuel-efficient vehicles and are therefore squandering in a few decades a non-renewable resource that took tens of millions of years to accumulate. Even if there were no other issues at hand, it would be economically rational and ecologically beneficial—e.g., price-induced lower consumption would help Canada meet its Kyoto commitment—for our federal governments to intervene in today’s energy market to correct at least the best-documented and non-controversial market imperfections. We should be paying significantly greater taxes and prices at the pump.

www.energybulletin.net/3372.html
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. This alone would destroy the economy!!!
It just is going to majorly hurt millions!!!
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Say Bye Bye to Bush, Cheney and the GOP should this come to pass
Q: What do you call a Republican who just paid $11.49 for a gallon of gas?

A: A Radical Democrat!

50 million people could descend upon D.C. in one day and bring the whole government to it's knees.

We could do much worse.
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Sparky McGruff Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Naw... They'll just say it's Clinton's fault.
It's all Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click> Clinton's fault... <click>
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well it would definitely
hurt the poorest among us the most (as these things always do) and in areas like where I live, where if you don't have a car, you are shit out of luck, they wouldn't even be able to get to work anymore (no mass transportation to speak of).

Everyone else would just funnel money from somewhere else in their budget temporarily and hope gas prices fall. BUT if they continued being that high (the low end) or climbed (up to the high end of what you said) then I could definitely see a GLUT of fuel inefficient vehicles suddenly going up for sale. And some pretty desperate people. It would literally change how we live. If gas were $8 a gallon, I'd sure freaking think twice about any unnecessary trips.

Also there might be a much greater demand for mass transportation here in the south where we do NOT have it. THAT would be good, if they actually DID IT.
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. We needed a trans-continental mass-transit system YESTERDAY
We got gas-guzzling SUVs and a hundred thousand miles of asphalt and concrete highway instead. Guess which transport method we'll wish we had invested more time and money into developing soon?

Before we really hit a major crisis, I think it's time to dust off the trolley and railroad tracks. Along with the South, the Midwest and the Western U.S. states are going to be hurting for mass transit systems. We've let it deteriorate here to the point of ludicrosity.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 01:36 AM by Moonbeam_Starlight
and there are two things I have heard nothing but talk about and seen no action on in my lifetime (born in 1969):

1. reducing our dependence on foreign oil (well bush doesn't talk about this at ALL, but I've HEARD the government talk about it since I could understand what it meant). LESS TALK, MORE ACTION!!!!

2. Mass transportation in this area (I live in Texas). City and state officials have been flapping their gums and having committee meetings about this since time out of mind, but they just KEEP building more roads. You should see the monstrosity in north Dallas called the High Five.

This is just a model but it's pretty much done now:



Another good pic, this of the first stages of construction:






It's a freaking MONSTER.
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's absolutely ridiculous!
How do they get away with that? You're right. That is a monster! I wonder what the maintenance on all those bridges is going to be in a few years?

Good God. I hope Dallas doesn't get hit with a major earthquake anytime soon. That looks like a catastrophe waiting to happen.

What wonders high speed rail could work for situations like these...
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yep
It's five highways right on top of one another. It took more than five years and millions and millions of dollars to build. Maintenance is pretty much hell.

And it's not pretty to look at either.

Can you imagine accidents up on that thing?

And yes, apparently we are all smoking crack here. Sigh. Just glad I don't have to drive on it. Never have, never will.

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missouri dem 2 Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I am in Dallas several times a year and never go there without
seeing an accident.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. This is going to destroy Suburbia thats for sure
They all moved out there because of cheaper home prices Now soon they will be cheaper!!!
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's Not As if Everybody Can Move Into the City
If suburbanites move into the city en masse,
guess who gets squeezed out.
Be careful what you wish for.

If gas became unobtainium I think I'd get a horse.
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McKenzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. suburbia is finished as a development model
The main page of this site is worth looking at for a discussion on development patterns etc. Here's a section that deals specifically with development models in a post-oil world.

http://www.kunstler.com/mags_diaryplus.html
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