AIDS a sign of moral "immunodefficiency" - Vatican

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30393913.htm

VATICAN CITY, Nov 30 (Reuters) - The Vatican on Tuesday blamed the spread of AIDS on an "immunodeficiency" of moral values among other factors and called for education, abstinence and greater access to drugs to fight the disease.

On the eve of World AIDS Day, the head of the Vatican's pontifical health council quoted Pope John Paul as calling AIDS a "pathology of the spirit" that must be combated with "correct sexual practice" and "education of sacred values".

"I highlight his thoughts regarding the immunodeficiency of moral and spiritual values," Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan added in a speech prepared for World AIDS Day on Wednesday.

A United Nations report released last week showed the number of adults and children living with HIV reached 39.4 million in 2004, up from 35 million in 2001.

more

...Anyone else think the Vatican should lay off their "moral" crap? At least until they have cleaned out their own rectory.

Don

[Not_Giving_Up]

1. I think the Catholic Church

Suffers from "Immunodeficiency of moral values"

[Cobalt Violet]

39. What like molesting little boys and girls? n/t

[LakeCohoon]

79. I think they preferred little boys. n/t

[PROGRESSIVE1]

54. True.

The Vatican has NO authority on this!!!
:eyes:

[trotsky]

2. Shame on the baby who got AIDS from her mother.

Or the married woman who got it from her cheating husband.

Or the innocent boy who got it from a blood tranfusion.

Their immunodeficiency of moral values condemned them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. no one deserves aids even if they got in from an orgy.

its not equal punishment for mere pleasure

[July]

28. Thank you.

I wonder what the Catholic Church's view is on the "deficiency" of those who have sex but escape AIDS? They're probably a step higher morally than those who manage to get infected, right?

[LakeCohoon]

78. No one deserves it;

however, you would have pretty stupid to involve yourself in an orgy. Talk about a death wish.

[Cobalt Violet]

40. Or the one who got it from their local Catholic priest.

[Roland99]

60. Or the man in Africa who was told that sex with virgins cures AIDS

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. arent these the same people who were complicit in killing

6 million jews less during world war II?

ofcourse they are in a position to tell peopel about so called moral values :puke:

[tk2kewl]

4. This just pisses me off to no end.

un-f*cking-believeable

the pope has obviously completely lost his potato-peeling mind

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Elidor]

6. What an ignorant view

The Pope is a cretin.

[KurtNYC]

8. And how many children has this church molested?

disgusting

[GOPFighter]

12. Exactly!

Clean up your own house first, Popey, and then try it again.

The Pope won't be happy until everyone, like him, eschews sex.

[KurtNYC]

17. All things hidden from the light, decay

This is just scary. That the Catholic church by omission denies that its screwy policies have made a bad situation far worse.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/AIDS/01/31/aids.priests/

In the first of a three-part series, the newspaper said death certificates and interviews with experts indicated several hundred priests have died of AIDS-related illnesses since the mid-1980s and hundreds more are living with HIV, the virus that causes the disease.
...
I think this speaks to a failure on the part of the church," said Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton of the Archdiocese of Detroit. "Gay priests and heterosexual priests didn't know how to handle their sexuality, their sexual drive. And so they would handle it in ways that were not healthy."

[Tempest]

9. The Vatican are hypocrites

They are responsible for the child sex abuse scandal and for doing nothing to prevent the deaths of 6 million Jews.

If there were a God, the Vatican would have been destroyed with a bolt of lightning a long time ago.

[Bat Boy]

10. Does that mean that, if everything were working right...

...these people would be immune to moral values?

That's kinda what that means, isn't it?

[hatrack]

11. Newsflash, John Paul - It's a VIRUS

It's a little bit of genetic information in a protein shell that infects people in several ways. The infection produces disease. It's a VIRUS. It's not DIVINE RETRIBUTION. It's not the WAGES OF SIN. It's a VIRUS - is that difficult for y'all in the Vatican to understand?

[bleedingheart]

15. but wait...you forget...the Mother Church ignores that...

in fact I bet he thinks the Sun revolves around the flat Earth...

[bemildred]

13. And they are worried about a shortage of priests?

Fewer priests, fewer pedos, fewer greedy hypocrits.
Maybe they should worry about their own deficiency of moral values first.

[McKenzie]

14. is this the pot calling the kettle black? (rhetorical question)

The Catholic church needs to apologise for the immoral behaviour of its priesthood before it has any right to start lecturing the world on sexual morality. Recent revelations (no pun) in Ireland are a salient, and disgusting, case in point. Besides, how the fuck can a bunch of lifelong celibates even begin to understand ANYTHING about sexual matters?

If the Catholic church wants an insight into how spirituality has interfaced with sexuality may I direct them to the carvings on early Hindu temples? There they will see explicit celebrations of the wonderful thing that is sexual pleasure. That is the expression of a cultural, and spiritual, value system that is no less valid than Catholic dogma. The only way the Catholic church could criticise the imagery would be to discount the Hindu faith as false but that sort of religous imperialism can't happen now. Despite the fact that the different faiths teach values that are often mutually contradictory it's all about "togetherness" these days.

Wonder if they know what "irony" means?

[ozymandius]

16. Is it any wonder why the Catholic church is losing people left, right and

down the middle?

One might think that the Vatican just announced its proclamation from the middle ages. Kudos to Catholics who can think for themselves - rather than parrot this know-nothing gibberish from the last century.

[kcwayne]

18. There are always some chuckle heads claiming that disease and

morality are intertwined. The great influenza epidemic that occurred in 1918 and spread throughout the US and Europe, killing 20 million was bemoaned by "moralists" who claimed that the spread of the disease was directly related to low or improper values.

Wouldn't you think that after 2000 years of practicing and tuning a "moral" ethos, the Vatican could be just a little less medieval?

[RebelYell]

19. The pope needs to research the origin of AIDS

Looks more and more like Eugenics.

[papau]

20. People did and do die of auto-immune "deficiency" before the 80's version

Has nothing to do with sex -

common situation is the body rejects itself and tries to kill the invader - itself -

And this was I believe called AIDS

Now the virus caused version is im-moral, but the body not working correctly version is moral?

curious.....

[Toucano]

21. "I'm ready for my holy war, Mr. DeMille."

I really hate these ignorant, child molesting bastards.

[VegasWolf]

22. I guess witch hunts, blatant land and gold grabbing in

the name of saving heathens, conspiracy and murder are all
okay though.

[purduejake]

23. This is just another reason why....

most Catholics I know don't even listen to the Pope anymore or follow many of the church doctrines. Imagine what the church could do to help people instead of sit back and insult them.

[Rambis]

24. Can you say "Cheney the Pope!" without going to hell?

ok then, "Fuck the Pope!"

[Komrade _azul]

25. If I refuse to listen to the senile old Pole in the vatican...

would I get Acquired Vatican Deficiency Syndrome, AVDS?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. And this from the organization...

that used to hide away their gay priests dying of AIDS back in the 80s, pretending it wasn't really happening. It was their secret shame, back then.

They continually make the same mistake - when faced with a serious internal problem they "hide" the problem away and deny, deny, deny.

They did it with alcholic priests, pedophiles priests, and gay priests.

One of these days they may finally "get it"...

[Liberal Veteran]

27. Hey, JP, this person with HIV ain't exactly impressed with you either.

:eyes:

[0007]

29. These fucking loony toons just keep getting better!

Perhaps the shadowy secrecy of the Catholic Priest and the men of the cloth who corn hole little boys could reveal their secrets of moral and spiritual values? Especially to those of us who seek a normal immune system.

[Moloch]

30. Another thing that the Vatican will eventually have to apologize

for.

Ironically, It was the same pope that apologized for the crusades, the inquisition and silence during wwii.

[AngryOldDem]

31. Not that this will make any difference to this discussion...

but...

http://www.catholicrelief.org/our_work/what_we_do/programming_areas/aids/index.cfm

There's too much on this site to summarize. Pick and choose.

We are all very much aware of the Church's moral failings throughout the centuries. But if you care to see what many laypeople are doing to fight AIDS worldwide, this gives you a good start.

[Chovexani]

70. No one here is trashing the work of laypeople

I don't know about others, but I don't take issue with individual Catholics. They do a lot of good work, and my feeling is they do it in spite of the ignorant crap that gets spewed out of the Vatican. My problems with the Catholic Church lie squarely with the gang of thieves and hypocrites in Rome who wear a priest's flock and purport to speak for their God. They are corrupt to the core and have no business telling anyone how to live much less the billion people who call themselves Catholic.

I think the hierarchy could learn a lot from the ordinary Catholics, the ones who actually get out there and show Christ's love through their actions in helping others.

[dArKeR]

32. "abstinence" worked for the priests so I'm sure it will work for our

children.

In my Religion class in High School, the Catholic Priest teacher admitted he and other priests masturbate. Little did the world, except for their victims, know that they were having sex with the children and adults of their congregations.

These abstinence people are really sick twisted people!

[barb162]

33. they are right on a few points here and this is the situation where

innocent people are infected by those who damn well know they have AIDS and don't bother to use protection or tell the innocent person. I consider that a moral problem, alright, resulting in the suffering and death of innocent people.


Also correct on
"...the prices of antiretroviral drugs should be made as cheap as possible and called on industrialised nations to help fight AIDS in the worst-hit countries.

The Vatican's top health official also said prejudice and discrimination against AIDS victims have to be eradicated."
------------
And yes, what with the pedophile priests and the years-long coverups,I think they need to clean the rectory and its back rooms

[LynnTheDem]

34. Vatican; one of the biggest terrorists & human rights violaters ever.

Vatican; busy telling Africans that condoms are the devil's work and they don't prevent Aids.

Dear vatican; fuck off, assholes.

[Minstrel Boy]

35. Google "paedophile priest" for readings in the "pathology of the spirit."

Sample headlines:

Paedophile priest allowed to keep job
The Guardian, Nov 26, 2002

Church gave job to priest despite offences
The New Zealand Herald, May 18, 2004

Paedophile priest to walk free
The Age, Australia, Nov 4, 2004

French Bishop faces trial for not denouncing paedophile priest
AFP, Feb 23, 2001

"Papal successor" moved paedophile priest
Breaking News (Ireland), June 21, 2004

Polish court gives paedophile priest three-year sentence
AFP, Nov 24, 2003

Exposé on shielding paedophiles in Church a shocking indictment
Irish Examiner, Oct 19, 2002

[KenCarson]

36. continuing to obliterate my tiny faith in humanity

what a waste of time to listen to that crap

[northzax]

37. guess what, folks? they ar eabsolutely right. from their perspective

want to know how to stop AIDS in a single generation? only married people have sex, with eachother. if every single person had only one sexual partner for their entire lives, AIDS would be gone in a generation.

Yes, most new victims of AIDS are blameless, either born with the disease or victims of sexual crime (rape and prostitution are the two largest vectors in Africa for AIDS) and where I come from, rape and prostitution are certainly moral failings of someone. Every single rapist is a moral failure, wouldn't you agree? Every single man who cheats on his family and brings home a disease is a moral failure, no? same with a woman who does it. Very few people, especially in the West, get AIDS through any method besides sex or IV Drug use. Know who you;re having sex with, don't use dirty needles, and your chances of getting HIV drop to around that of winning the Powerball. So certainly moral failings contribute to the spread of AIDS. deal with it.

And for the victims of the disease? the Vatican calls on drug companies to make their drugs affordable to all who need them, calling this a moral failing as well.

So where are the moral failings? those who would spread a disease without thought to another (whether through rape, prostitution of whatever) those who would not educate people on how that disease is spread (perhaps leading to casual and deadly sex) and those who would profit unseemingly from those with the disease. Gee, I can kinda agree with that.

I welcome comments from anyone who wants to explain why rape, forced prostitution, promiscuity, lack of education and drug profiteering are not moral failures.

[Fovea]

45. You cannot associate disease with moral failing.

What happens if the virus goes airborne, will breathing become immoral?

[northzax]

50. sure you can, actually

since the methods by which this disease is transmissted are almost purely behavioural. I am not making an association between a disease and moral failure, simply the transmission of that disease in most cases.

getting shot is not a moral failing. Someone shooting you is.

getting raped is not a moral failure. Raping someone is.

being a victim of a pedophile is not a moral failing. Being that pedophile is.

see the difference?

[Fovea]

53. This is a virus that migrated from apes to humans

Please explain to me how being another species is a moral failing.

Ducks and Geese spread flu. Shall we smite the geese?

[northzax]

55. you are completely correct, I was wrong

behaviour has nothing to do with the spread of HIV. nothing at all. I hereby encourage everyone to have unprotected sex with as many people as possible, preferably anal sex with an intravenous drug using prostitute. Then go home and have sex with your unsuspecting wife. It's not your fault if she gets some disease, after all, it evolved from apes, so there is no blame to be spread around in the transmission.

look, if I have the flu, I stay home from the office so as not to give it to other people.

I don't smoke around other people who are not smokers, to reduce their exposure to second hand smoke.

I don't drink and drive.

All these are moral choices for me, not to reduce the threat to myself, but to reduce the chances of my doing something that deliberatly puts an innocent human being at risk.

but apparently, I can have all the unprotected sex I want, even if I give my girlfriend AIDS it is not a moral failing on my part.

Look at the reality of the numbers. HIV is a completely preventable disease. If you have protected sex with only one partner, and get tested regulary (trust but verify) stay away from dirty needles, you simply aren't going to get HIV. If you have HIV, you can eliminate the chance that you will transmit it to other people by not having sex with them. Every sexually active person has the responsibility to know their HIV status, and act accordingly. To not do so is a moral failing, it is putting other people at risk unnecessarily. What greater moral failing can there be?

I am not saying we should smite anyone, if you read the Vatican's statement, they call for greater education, greater access to medication and health care for those already infected with HIV. Educate everyone, treat the infected and reduce the conditions that lead to the spread of the disease. what's immoral about that?

Is your message to people really "deny your HIV status, have as much unprotected sex as you can, it's not a moral thing."?

[Liberal Veteran]

65. While I understand what you are saying.....

....let me just say that making this an issue of morality is HUGE mistake.

The only thing it really accomplishes is to further ostracise those who have contracted HIV by reinforcing the link that people with HIV got it through immoral behavior.

Once that link is made, it becomes very easy for people to withold their compassion, particularly in the US.

And why do we pick on the STD?

Liver disease is most often the result of moral failing (from HCV to drinking).

Obesity related illness is most often the result of moral failing (gluttony being one of the 7 deadly sins).

Lung cancer is most often the result of moral failing (the demon weed tobacco).

It burns me up (especially as someone who contracted HIV from a cheating boyfriend in 1985), that this just further gives people a reason to treat me like shit because I have HIV.

You can say, "That's not JP's intent." all day long, but that is essentially the end result of it among the masses who don't hear "We need to be compassionate and treat people with HIV with respect". Instead all they hear is "See? Even the pope agrees that we shouldn't be coddling people with HIV".

Everytime we start trying to make a moral issue out of a health care issue, we run into this problem and these people who are supposedly trying to make the world a better place do nothing heap further stigma on people and give people justification for prejudices.

[MissB]

66. Very, very, very good post. (nt)

[Chovexani]

67. Great post

My uncle died of AIDS complications in the '80s and I know exactly what you're talking about. There is not as much of a stigma now as there was back then, but I get very wary when people (especially religious types) start speaking of HIV/AIDS in "moral" terms. It is usually code for "filthy faggots deserve what they get".

It's not a terribly far leap from "AIDS is the result of moral failings" to "AIDS is God's punishment".

[northzax]

73. thank you for your reasoned response

it's the first one all day.

I agree with you that JP may not be the best vehicle for a 'moral' arguement on HIV. And frankly, your point is best made by all the people on this thread who read only the headline of the story (which is frankly a minor part of the press release) and not the entire thing, which explicitly calls for tolerance and education about those living with HIV, and explicitly lays the moral failings on those who aren't doing enough to stop the spread of the disease (read: developed nations and drug companies.)

The reason this particular press release was issued was because of World AIDS Day, as you well know, so that's why we're "picking" on the STD. I would urge the pope to release a statement on World Lung Cancer day urging Catholics to make the moral choice not to smoke. As well as any other disease that can be linked to behavioural choices. Frankly, I think it's a good thing that the pope is saying anything at all about the issue, and calling Catholics to taks for their failure to care for and treat those with HIV. That is the message that needs to be broadcast, not the rote comdennation of the headline of an AP story, one that frankly, takes the phrase out of the context of the announcement. Because of the rote comdemnation of the Church, even by those as 'enlightened' as DU'ers, people won't hear the message about education and medical care. I was just trying to get that particular message out. Let's celebrate the good things that happen on the HIV front, let's trumpet from the ramparts that the Pope says that Catholics should not and cannot stigmatize people simply for having an illness. Let's post on the door of every Catherdral and Parish in the world the urgent neccesity of Catholics to educate themselves and their neighbors about the transmission of HIV. Let's use the bullty pulpit to call for increased access to medication. All these are, undeniably good thing. I refuse to have what is basically a good message, even if couched in moral terms <and the Pope has to speak in mkoral terms, he's the Pope, it's kind of his job> that are not what some people want to hear. With the ability to read and write comes the reponsibility to conteract false information. Since this headline gives basically false information about what the Pope said, we need to counter it to defuse the troglodytes and educate them about the moral responsiblity to care for all humans, especially the weak or ill.

As to your last point, I would argue that transmission of HIV is not a purely health care issue,<save the moral neccesity of providing health care, which I strongly agree with> it is an education and access to technology issue. The more people are educated about HIV, the more they have access to education and opportunity, the lower the transmission rates.

[Fovea]

68. ?????????? What ??????????

I think your reaction is absolutely hysterical, and I don't mean in a humorous way.

1. There is a difference between ethics and morality.
There is no moral stricture about driving drunk, if you don't believe me, ask Janklow. You declare all these unethical things you won't do, and declare that they are moral decisions. Morality bases attitude and behavior as God's dictum. Ethics requires humans to base attitudes and behavior on human reason.

2. At no point do I encourage anyone to avoid safe sex. It doesn't take the voice of God to abjure people from it, merely commonsense and a knowledge of epidemiology.

3. When you equate normal aspects of human behavior, including marital, pre-marital, or post-marital promiscuity, as much as you may dislike it, with immorality, you make a taint out of a behavior that is the norm in America.
Like proclaiming abstainence as a health strategy, casting moral aspersions on ill-considered behaviors does not actually help much in controlling the dangerous behavior. Sleep with your neighbor if you are going to anyway, but use a condom, shlub.

If anything, the 'moral' approach encourages the most hateful and ignorant to act out against the 'immoral'. Ask Matthew Sheppard, if you have problems understanding this.

4. Using Christian morality as a replacement for reason or civil law is a fine way to end up in a second inquisition. And as a non-Christian, I find it both dangerous, and offensive.

I have no problem with the Pope encouraging mercy. I have problems if the Pope, who does not encourage condom use, makes ex-cathedra statements about morality and the spread of AIDS.

For the record, just in case I mistake maladroit sarcasm for an actual plan, don't do the stuff in the post above. It will only spread misery, and most of those behaviors won't be as fun as you might think.

[northzax]

76. actually, I don't percieve a difference between morality and ethics

in my personal life. To me they are the exact same thing. The ethical behaviour that I was taught as a child is derived from the religious tradition of my family. And the first and foremost thing was the same as the hypocratic oath: first do no harm. While there is no moral prohibition against driving drunk specifically, there is a moral prohibition against putting other people at risk unneccesarily, which is how I, personally, interpret driving drunk. therefore, it is, in fact, a moral decision for me.

2. No, you simply mock those who would provide this education, as called for in section 8 of the press release (the one where the Pope says what Catholics need to do about AIDS and mentions education TWICE.) Commonsense is not that common, and 90% of the exposed population has no clue what epidemiology is.

3. oh, when all else fails, bring out Matthew Sheppard. See, I'd be willing to bet money that Matthew Sheppard, if he had one wish, would be that those who attacked and brtually murdered him would have heard the moral lesson about caring for other human beings. THAT is the moral lesson. That is what needs to be taught, and frankly, that's what the press release actually says.

4. Luckily, the Pope isn't actually talking to you. He issues edicts on the morality required of Catholics, not you. Frankly, nothing in this document, or anything the Pope has said, encourages the use of Catholic law instead of secular law. This is directed at individuals, not states. There is a small, but noticible difference between the two (for instance, individuals rarely own aircraft carriers)

[Fovea]

77. That explains a lot.

Sorry, I didn't realize the depth of your ignorance.
Yes, by all means, for you there is no difference between ethics and morality.

How could anyone argue with this? I mean, literally. Enjoy your world's teal sunset, and may God always whisper good things in your ear.

A new quote for your theology/ethical structure.
"When I use a word, either it means exactly what I want it to..."
"Or what?" Alice asked.
"Or it doesn't" said the White Knight.

[northzax]

81. so what you're saying is that

my morality doesn't fit into yours, ergo it doesn't count as morality. excellent. that explains a lot as well.

explain to me how my moral education that told me not to kill other people is not morality.

a few citations for you, as well:

mo·ral·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-rl-t, mô-)
n. pl. mo·ral·i·ties
The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
Virtuous conduct.
A rule or lesson in moral conduct.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Damn fucking dictionaries, always using words wrong.

and one more:

Entry: ethical
Function: adjective
Definition: moral
Synonyms: Christian, clean, conscientious, correct, decent, elevated, equitable, fair, fitting, good, high-principled, honest, honorable, humane, just, kosher, moralistic, noble, principled, proper, respectable, right, right-minded, righteous, square, straight, true blue, upright, upstanding, virtuous
Antonyms: corrupt, dishonest, dishonorable, immoral, unethical, unrighteous
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)
Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.


explain again the difference? or continue to cite children's books written by drug addicts. whatever works.

[Fovea]

85. Ahh, the battle of Auctores.

As you should have surmised from earlier posts, I am using the definition of moral and morality in exactly the way you begin using it, in the sense of an extension of your faith.
IE
moral(a): based on strong likelihood or firm conviction rather than actual evidence; "a moral certainty"
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

In this case, to use Moral as a synonym for Ethics is insufficiently nice, since you are, in your original post dealing with the Pope, and Christian Morality. I maintain still, that you are overly broad in your use of the word as philosophical term of art. This is particularly true when dealing with matters of behavior in a secular, pluralistic society.

You either should know that, and are disingenuous, or don't, and are ignorant. I really do not care either way.
And by the way, you may dislike Mr. Dodgson, but he was also a brilliant logical thinker.

[CatholicEug]

61. Thank YOU, Sir or Ma'am.

[alcuno]

87. Thank you, northzax. I've been reading this post at work all day,

waiting for a more reasoned response than shrieks of "pedophile priests, pedophile priests."

[DS1]

38. Stupid move. eom

[KamaAina]

41. Huh? People with hemophilia have a moral "immunodeficiency"?

'cause a whole lot of 'em got AIDS back before we knew to screen the blood supply (see under White, Ryan et al.)

Bad Pope! Go to your, um, palace, I guess!

[northzax]

51. and now?

how many people have contracted HIV via blood transfusions or needle sticks in the past decade?

seriously, how many?

[KamaAina]

56. You're right. I guess nurses are morally immunodeficient, too. (sarcasm)

And garbage collectors, er, I mean sanitary engineers. Forgot all about needle sticks.

There probably are some countries that don't screen blood properly, and the odd case over here that falls through the cracks (donor diagnosed HIV+ the day after donating, etc.). Still more cases of moral immunodeficiency. </sarcasm>

Note to Pope: Be sure brain is engaged before putting mouth in gear.

Edit: And kids who play around dirty needles, too. Can't leave them out, now can we? </sarcasm>

[northzax]

62. going a bit to extremes, aren't we?

according to the radicals at teh Centers for Disease Control, As of June 2000, CDC had received voluntary reports of 56 U.S. HCP with documented HIV seroconversion temporally associated with an occupational HIV exposure. An additional 138 episodes in HCP are considered possible occupational HIV transmissions. These workers had a history of occupational exposure to blood, other infectious body fluids, or laboratory solutions containing HIV, and no other risk for HIV infection was identified, but HIV seroconversion after a specific exposure was not documented (99). http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5011a1.htm That is fewer than 200, maximu, and fewer than 40 confirmed out of an estimated 1.3-1.4 million cases cumulative in the US. {as of 2000, site: http://63.126.3.84/2002/Abstract/13996.htm">HIV Prevalence in the United States, 2000. Fleming, et all. CDC, Atlanta GA.

And gee, I can't find a sinlge CDC record of a gorbageman in the US contracting HIV on the job. But I guess anything is possible.

You know where the moral failing is? it is in the countries that have adequate technology and resources not ensuring that every single blood donation is screened for HIV. After all, ourscreening practices are so bad that it hasn't happened in the US in a decade. That is who is 'morally immunodeficient.' The people who have the means to stop accidental transmission and don't. Read the statement. Read where it says we must remove the stigma of living with the disease and use education and treatment to prevent further infection. You know why the rate of transmission to health care workers, while still unacceptably high, is so low? because of education. and investment in technology to prevent transmission. But I guess that doesn't matter to you, that if the sexual transmission of the virus stopped tommorow, it would be gone in 50 years. But, rather than work to end the stigma of infection, while still condemming the <overwhelming> method of transmission, you'd rather mention the .00292% of US infections that are accidental needle sticks of health care workers.

the great majority of US deaths by handgun are homicides. but occasionally, people actually shoot someone in self defense. Does that mean we shouldn't condemm the homicides, since on rare occasion people kill people who 'need killin'?

[KamaAina]

83. From now on I'm putting the (sarcasm) tag in bold

Indeed I was going to extremes (reductio ad absurdum) in order to point out how ridiculous the Pope's statement sounds when followed to its logical conclusion.

I'm not trying to condemn any group of people living with HIV, merely pointing out how hypocritical the Pope is for doing so while conveniently ignoring others, more "morally correct" in his view, who have the same disease.

[NickB79]

64. China, for one, infected several MILLION poor farmers

There was a scandal in China I recall reading about several years ago, where it was discovered that several million poor Chinese farmers were infected with HIV due to unsanitary conditions when drawing blood for plasma collections. Mobile centers would move around the countryside to collect plasma and give poor farmers extra income, and at the same time give a tidy profit to government officials skimming off the top. Since dozens of farmers were often hooked up to the same machine when it would draw blood and reinject blood cells after the plasma was centrifuged out, whole villages were infected at a time. The Chinese officials were arrested when it became apparent they knew about this but kept their mouths shut as to not lose their source of profit. This is a moral failing on the part of the poor Chinese farmers how?

Lets see, then there were all those babies in Russia, Romania, etc in the 1990s, that were infected through injections with dirty needles. Orphanages full of HIV-positive 3-yr olds is really a moral failing?

[northzax]

69. hell yes it is.

read this sentance you wrote again: Orphanages full of HIV-positive 3-yr olds is really a moral failing? want to change that? how can orphanages filled with infected children NOT be a moral failing on the part of society? Isn't not taking care of innocent children the ultimate moral failing?

Giving injections of HIV infected blood to people knowingly? yup. moral failure.

FOR THE LAST TIME. READ THE FUCKING PRESS RELEASE. IT SAYS THAT MORAL FAILINGS LEAD TO TRANSMISSION. and it does. somebody's failure to care for another person leads to 99% of infections. the press realese specifically says that we should not blame the people who are infected, we should blame all of us for not doing enough to stop the disease from spreading to more people. Damn, I wish everyone would stop defending people who knowingly engage in behaviour that leads to the infection of other people. that's what youre doing, you know? you are equating the victim with the victimizer. You are equating the rapist with the raped. The murdered with the murderer. The child with the pedophile. One person involved in an action can have a moral failing that infects the other person, WITHOUT ANY BLAME ON THE VICTIM. that is specifically what the Vatican said.

Personally, I don't believe the victims of rape are tainted with the sin of the rapist. You apparently, cannot separate the two, at least where HIV is involved.

I'll say it slowly this time, see if it sinks in. Y O U C A N B L A M E O N E P E R S O N F O R A M O R A L F A I L I N G W I T H O U T B L A M I N G T H E V I C T I M.

[Liberal Veteran]

82. In a perfect world I would agree wth you........

Where people don't make snap value judgements without knowing the whole story.

Unfortunately, that is not the world we live in. The tendency to generalize and paint everyone with the same brush is epidemic in our society.

Example: You have AIDS? You must be gay or drug abuser. And that's how you are going to get treated.

That's the danger inherent in attaching a virus to morality.

The sad fact is that our society is extremely ugly on this issue. Inevitably when the issue of HIV comes up (even if you are talking about HIV in Africa or Asia, where the disease is primarily in heterosexuals), people start babbling about homosexuality and those "dirty queers".

That's why I am loathe to play the morality card on this issue. We live in a society where people use morality to indulge in superiority complexes and batter those who are seen as less "moral" than they are. Which brings us right back to the withdrawal of compassion.

We can't escape that reality.

Thus, it is far, far better to portray these issues in clinical/scientific/medical terms than appeal to religious values which in this country have been distilled into "you deserve what you get for your presumed sins".

In my world view, HIV is a public health issue. We can tackle the problem that way without feeding into the machine that wants to use their own religious beliefs as reason to be insensitive and avoid tackling the problem.

[Plaid Adder]

42. Makin' it harder than ever to be a gay Catholic, that's our JPII.

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

[TahitiNut]

48. I think the Vatican conservatives are running the show ...

... and JP2's infirmities are being exploited. It's past time for a new Pope.

[Fovea]

43. AIDS = God's anger at hemophiliacs.

They all died in my neck of the woods.
I watched a whole family get wiped by it.

Yeah, that's some moral issue!

[Canuckistanian]

44. The Pope a sign of mental deficiency

[bushisanidiot]

46. How christian of him. Doesn't sound like something Jesus would have said

I wonder what his popeness would have said about Lazurus had he been around then. hmmmm..

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happyslug]

49. Here is the orginal press release (Anyone can translate Italian?)

PONTIFICIO CONSIGLIO PER LA PASTORALE DELLA SALUTE

MESSAGGIO DEL CARD. JAVIER LOZANO BARRAGÁN
IN OCCASIONE DELLA GIORNATA MONDIALE DELL'AIDS
(1̊ DICEMBRE 2004)

Cari fratelli,

1. Da alcuni anni, il 1̊ dicembre si celebra la Giornata Mondiale dell'AIDS. Per tale occasione, anche quest'anno, desidero indirizzare, in quanto Presidente del Pontificio Consiglio per la Pastorale della Salute, un Messaggio di vicinanza e incoraggiamento della Chiesa a coloro che lottano contro questa devastante pandemia, a coloro che assistono e curano i malati di HIV/AIDS e a quest'ultimi che vivono in prima persona il mistero della sofferenza umana. Quest'anno l'Organizzazione delle Nazioni Unite per il programma sull'AIDS (UNAIDS) ha dedicato questa giornata alle donne, alle ragazze e l'HIV/AIDS, a motivo della loro maggiore vulnerabilità, rispetto agli uomini, nel contrarre il virus dell'HIV/AIDS; uno studio ha rilevato che esse si contagiano 2,5 volte di più degli uomini.

2. Condivido la preoccupazione della comunità internazionale per il quadro drammatico delle conseguenze dell'epidemia sulla salute, le condizioni di vita, le prospettive, lo statuto e la dignità delle donne e delle ragazze in molte regioni del mondo. In effetti l'impatto dell'HIV/AIDS sulle donne aggrava l'ineguaglianza ed impedisce il progresso verso l'universalità dei diritti. Inoltre più l'infezione progredisce fra le donne, che sono il pilastro delle famiglie e delle comunità, più aumenta il rischio di crollo sociale. La Chiesa da sempre difende con particolare vigore la donna e la sua grandissima dignità e lotta per combattere le discriminazioni che, ancora oggi, permangono in gran parte della nostra società chiedendo maggiori sforzi per eliminare le disparità contro le donne nei settori quali l'educazione, la tutela della salute e il lavoro.

Una delle più devastanti epidemie dei nostri tempi

3. L'HIV/AIDS è una delle più devastanti epidemie dei nostri tempi; è un dramma umano che, per la sua gravità e vastità, è una delle sfide maggiori di sanità a livello mondiale. I dati riportati nel Rapporto delle Nazioni Unite "The impact of Aids" del 2004 parlano chiari: dalla comparsa di questa epidemia (verso gli anni '80), più di 22 milioni di persone sono morte nel mondo a causa dell'AIDS e attualmente 42 milioni di persone vivono con l'HIV/AIDS. Nel 2003, 2,9 milioni di persone sono morte a causa dell'AIDS e 4,8 milioni sono rimaste infettate dall'HIV. L'AIDS è la causa principale di morte nelle persone in età compresa tra i 15 e i 49 anni. In molti paesi, specialmente in Africa e nei paesi più colpiti come Botswana, Swaziland e Zimbabwe, l'epidemia dell'AIDS si è propagata velocemente portando malattia, morte, povertà e dolore. Recentemente questa pandemia sta colpendo fortemente i paesi con un alto numero di abitanti come la Cina e l'India. Si prevede che al 2025 l'AIDS causerà la morte di 31 milioni di persone in India e di 18 milioni in Cina.

4. Drammatica è la situazione per i bambini infatti, secondo i dati del Rapporto 2004 dell'UNICEF, UNAIDS e USAID "Children on the brink", tra il 2001 e il 2003, il numero complessivo di bambini rimasti orfani a causa dell'AIDS è cresciuto da 11, 5 milioni a 15 milioni, in gran parte in Africa. Si stima che entro il 2010, nell'Africa sub-Sahariana ci saranno 18,4 milioni di orfani a causa dell'HIV/AIDS. Soltanto nel 2003 sono diventati orfani a causa di questa epidemia 5,2 milioni di bambini. Inoltre, il loro crescente numero sta cambiando il sistema tradizionale, soprattutto in Africa, di accoglienza degli orfani nelle famiglie poiché queste, già povere, hanno difficoltà a farsi carico di questi bambini.

5. Il Santo Padre Giovanni Paolo II, in molte occasioni ha trattato il problema e ci ha fornito orientamenti illuminanti che mostrano la natura della malattia, la sua prevenzione, il comportamento del malato e di chi lo assiste, così come il ruolo che devono avere le Autorità civili e gli scienziati. Sottolineo il suo pensiero per ciò che riguarda la immunodeficienza dei valori morali e spirituali, e ciò che si riferisce all'accompagnamento del malato di AIDS, al quale si devono prestare tutta l'attenzione ed i servizi, poiché sono i più bisognosi. In particolare il Papa, nel suo messaggio per la Giornata Mondiale del Malato 2005 (nn. 3-4), sottolinea che il dramma dell'AIDS si presenta come una "patologia dello spirito" e che per combatterla in modo responsabile, occorre accrescere la prevenzione mediante l'educazione al rispetto del valore sacro della vita e la formazione alla pratica corretta della sessualità.

6. Occorre bandire lo stigma che tante volte rende pesante la società al malato di AIDS. Per dissipare i pregiudizi di coloro che temono di approssimarsi ai malati di AIDS, per evitare il contagio, vogliamo ricordare che l'AIDS si trasmette soltanto per la triplice via del sangue, della trasmissione materno-infantile e per contatto sessuale. Tutte queste vie di trasmissione devono essere combattute efficacemente affinché vengano eliminate. Riguardo al contatto sessuale, ricordiamo che il contagio si deve eliminare mediante una condotta responsabile e l'osservanza della virtù della castità. Inoltre il Papa riferendosi al Sinodo per l'Africa del 1994, ribadisce una raccomandazione formulata dai Vescovi partecipanti: "l'affetto, la gioia, la felicità e la pace procurati dal matrimonio cristiano e dalla fedeltà, così come la sicurezza data dalla castità, devono essere continuamente presentati ai fedeli, soprattutto ai giovani".

Progetti e programmi di formazione

7. Rispondendo all'accorato appello del Santo Padre, la Chiesa cattolica, fin dalla comparsa del terribile flagello, ha sempre dato il suo contributo sia nel prevenire la trasmissione del virus HIV che nell'assistere i malati e le loro famiglie sul piano medico-assistenziale, sociale, spirituale e pastorale.

Attualmente il 26,7% dei centri per la cura dell'HIV/AIDS nel mondo sono cattolici. Tanti sono i progetti e i programmi di formazione, prevenzione sull'AIDS e di assistenza, cura e accompagnamento pastorale del malato di HIV/AIDS, che le Chiese locali, gli istituti religiosi e le associazioni laicali portano avanti con amore, senso di responsabilità e spirito di carità. Accanto a questo inestimabile e lodevole impegno, il Pontificio Consiglio per la Pastorale della Salute ha accolto la richiesta del Santo Padre Giovanni Paolo II, che, rivolgendosi ai Vescovi delle Conferenze Episcopali dell'America, Australia, Europa, chiede che si uniscano ai pastori dell'Africa per far fronte efficacemente all'emergenza dell'AIDS.

8. Per una maggiore efficacia nella lotta contro l'HIV/AIDS desidero riproporre alcune linee di azione da me indicate nel mio discorso alla XXVI Sessione Speciale dell'Assemblea Generale sull'HIV/AIDS dell'ONU (New York 2001):

- appoggiare i piani globali mondiali per combattere l'HIV/AIDS;
- incrementare l'educazione scolare e la catechesi ai valori della vita e del sesso;
- eliminare tutte le forme di discriminazione nei confronti dei malati di HIV/AIDS;
- informare adeguatamente su questa pandemia;
- invitare i Governi a creare delle condizioni adeguate per combattere questo flagello;
- favorire una maggiore partecipazione della società civile nella lotta all'AIDS;
- chiedere ai paesi industrializzati che, evitando ogni forma di colonialismo, aiutino, in questa campagna contro l'AIDS, i paesi che ne hanno bisogno;
- diminuire al massimo il prezzo dei medicinali antiretrovirali necessari per curare i malati di HIV/AIDS;
- intensificare le campagne di informazione per evitare la trasmissione materno-infantile del virus;
- offrire una maggiore attenzione alla cura dei bambini sieropositivi e alla protezione degli orfani a causa dell'AIDS;
- rivolgere una maggiore attenzione ai gruppi sociali più vulnerabili.

La preghiera di Giovanni Paolo II

9. Vorrei terminare con la preghiera, particolarmente significativa in questa occasione, che il Santo Padre Giovanni Paolo II ha dedicato, in occasione della Giornata Mondiale del Malato 2005, a tutti coloro che vivono la sofferenza e che vedono nell'uomo sofferente il Volto di Cristo. Vi invito, cari fratelli e sorelle, a farla vostra.

"Maria, Vergine Immacolata,
Donna del dolore e della speranza,
sii benigna verso
ogni persona che soffre
e ottieni a ciascuno pienezza di vita.

Volgi il tuo sguardo materno
specialmente su coloro che in Africa
sono nell'estremo bisogno,
perché colpiti dall'AIDS
o da altra malattia mortale.

Guarda le mamme
che piangono i loro figli;
guarda i nonni privi
di risorse sufficienti
per sostenere i nipoti rimasti orfani.

Stringi tutti al tuo cuore di Madre.
Regina dell'Africa
e del mondo intero,
Vergine Santissima, prega per noi!"

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/hlthwork/documents/rc_pc_hlthwork_doc_20041201_giornata-aids_it.html

[happyslug]

52. Here is machine translation (With all the problem of a machine)

PAPAL COUNCIL FOR THE PASTORALE OF THE HEALTH

MESSAGE OF THE CARD. JAVIER LOZANO BARRAGÁN IN OCCASION OF THE WORLD-WIDE DAY OF THE AIDS (1 DECEMBER 2004)

Beloveds siblings,

1. From some years, the 1 December celebrates the World-wide Day of the AIDS. For such occasion, also this year, I wish to address, in how much President of the Papal Council for the Pastorale of the Health, a Message of vicinity and encouragement of the Church to those who
fight against this devastating pandemic, to those who they assist and they cure the sick ones of HIV/AIDS and to this last that lives in first person the mystery of the human suffering. This year the United Nation for the program on AIDS (UNAIDS) has dedicated this day to the women, to the girls and the HIV/AIDS, to reason of their greater vulnerability, regarding the men, in contracting the virus of the HIV/AIDS; a study has found that they contagiano 2,5 times more of the men.

2. I share the worry of the international community for the dramatic picture of the consequences of the epidemic on the health, the living conditions, the perspectives, the charter and the dignity of the women and the girls in many regions of the world. In effects the impact of the HIV/AIDS on the women aggravates the ineguaglianza and prevents the progress towards the universalità of the rights. Moreover more the infection progresses between the women, that they are the pillar of the families and the communities, more it increases the risk than social landslide. The Church from always defends with particular vigor the woman and its greatest dignity and fight in order to fight the discriminations that, still today, permangono in great part of our society asking greater efforts in order to eliminate the disparities against the women in the fields which the education, the protection of the health and the job.

One of the most devastating epidemics of our times

3. The HIV/AIDS is one of the most devastating epidemics of our times; it is a human drama that, for its gravity and vastness, it is one of the greater challenges of health to world-wide level. The data brought back in the Relationship of the United Nations "The impact of AIDS" of the 2004 speak clear: from the appearance of this epidemic (towards years ' 80), more than 22 million than persons they are died in the world because of AIDS and currently 42 million persons lives with the HIV/AIDS. In 2003, 2,9 million persons are died because of AIDS and 4,8 million are remained infected from the HIV. The died AIDS is the root cause of in the persons in age comprised between the 15 and 49 years. In many countries, especially in Africa and the hit countries more like Botswana, Swaziland and Zimbabwe, the epidemic of the AIDS propagata fastly carrying disease, dead women, poverty and pain. Recently this pandemic is hitting strongly the countries with a high number of inhabitants like China and India. One previews that to the 2025 AIDS it will cause the dead women of 31 million persons in India and 18 million in China.

4. Dramatic it is the situation for the children in fact, according to the data of Relationship 2004 of the UNICEF, UNAIDS and USAID "Children on the brink", between 2001 and 2003, the total number of remained children orphaned because of the AIDS has grown from 11, 5 million to 15 million, in great part in Africa. Esteem that within 2010, in Africa Sub-Sahariana there will be the 18,4 million orphans because of HIV/AIDS. In the 2003 they only are becomes to you orphaned because of this epidemic 5,2 million children. Moreover, theirs increasing number is changing the traditional system, above all in Africa, of acceptance of the orphans in the families since these, already poor, they have difficulty is made loaded with these children.

5. The Saint Padre Giovanni Paul II, in many occasions it has dealt the problem and it has supplied us illuminant guidelines that show the nature of the disease, its prevention, the behavior of the sick one and who assists it, therefore like the role that must have the civil Authorities and the scientists. I emphasize its thought for that it regards the immunodeficiency of
the moral and spiritual values, and that that refers to the accompanyment of the sick one of AIDS, to which the attention and the services must be lend all, since they are needyst. In particular the Pope, in its message for the World-wide Day of Sick 2005 (nn. 3-4), it emphasizes that the drama of the AIDS introduces like one "pathology of the spirit" and that in order to fight it in responsible way, it is necessary to increase the prevention by means of the education
to the respect of the sacred value of the life and the corrected formation to the practical one of the sexuality.

6. It is necessary to announce publicly the stigma that many times render the society to the sick one of AIDS heavy. In order to dissipate the prejudgments of those who they fear to approximate itself to the sick ones of AIDS, in order to avoid the contagio, we want to remember that the AIDS is only transmitted for the triple one via of the blood, of the maternal-infantile transmission and for sexual contact. All these ways of transmission must be fought effectively so that they
come eliminated. C$r-with regard to the sexual contact, we remember that the contagio it must be eliminated by means of one lead responsible and the observance of the virtue of the castità. Moreover the Pope referring to the Sinodo for Africa of 1994, recommendation formulated from the Bishops ribadisce one participants: "the affection, the joy, the procurati happiness and the peace from the Christian wedding and the fidelity, therefore like the emergency given from the castità, they must continuously be introduces the faithfuls to you, above all to the young people ".

Plans and programs of formation

7. Answering to the wounded deeply appeal of the Saint Padre, the catholic Church, end from the appearance of the terrible flagellum, it has always given its contribution is in preventing the transmission of virus the HIV that in assisting sick and the their families on the
doctor-charitable plan, social, spiritual and pastorale.

Currently 26.7% of the centers for the cure of the HIV/AIDS in the world is catholic. Many are the plans and the programs of formation, prevention on the AIDS and of attendance, cure and pastorale accompanyment of the sick one of HIV/AIDS, that the local Churches, the religious institutes and the laicali associations carry ahead with love, sense of responsibility and spirit of charity. Beside this inestimabile and lodevole engagement, the Papal Council for the Pastorale of the Health has received the demand for the Saint Padre Giovanni Paul II, that, addressing to the Bishops of the Episcopal Conferences of the America, Australia, Europe, it asks that they join the shepherds of Africa in order to make forehead effectively the emergency of the AIDS.

8. For one greater effectiveness in the fight against the HIV/AIDS I wish riproporre some lines of action from me indicated in my speech to XXVI the Special Session of the Shareholders' meeting on the HIV/AIDS of the UN (New York 2001):

- to support world-wide the total plans in order to fight the HIV/AIDS;
- to increase the education to drain and the catechesi to the values of the life and the sex;
- to eliminate all the shapes of discrimination in the comparisons of the sick ones of HIV/AIDS;
- to inform adequately on this pandemic;
- to invite the Governments to create of the adequate conditions in order to fight this flagellum;
- to favor one greater participation of the civil society in the fight to the AIDS;
- to ask the countries industrializes to you that, avoiding every shape of colonialismo, they help, in this campaign against the AIDS, the countries that of it have need;
- to diminish to the maximum the price of the medicinal antiretrovirali necessary in order to cure the sick ones of HIV/AIDS;
- to intensify the information campaigns in order to avoid the maternal-infantile transmission of the virus;
- to offer one greater attention to the cure of the children sieropositi to you and to the protection of the orphans because of the AIDS;
- to turn one greater attention to the more vulnerable social groups.

The prayer of Giovanni Paul II

9. I would want to finish with the prayer, particularly meaningful in this occasion, that the Saint Padre Giovanni Paul II has dedicated, in occasion of the World-wide Day of Sick 2005, to all those who lives the suffering and that they see in the
suffering man the Face of Christ. I invite to you, beloveds siblings and sisters, to make it yours.

"Maria, Immaculate Vergine,
Woman of the pain and the hope,
be benign towards
every person who suffers
and you obtain to every fullness of life.

You turn your maternal look
especially on those who in Africa
they are in the extreme need,
because hit from the AIDS
or from other mortal disease them.

It watches the mothers
that their sons cry;
it watches the lacking grandfathers
of sufficient resources
in order to support the remained grandsons orphaned.

You tighten all to your heart of Mother.
Queen of Africa
and of the entire world,
The Saintest Vergine, it prays for we!"

The Computer Translator I used:
http://worldlingo.com/wl/translate

[foo_bar]

57. "The Saintest Vergine, it prays for we!"

Machines never seem to grok pronouns.

[happyslug]

72. It took me a few seconds to understand "Saint Padre Giovanni Paul II"

The Italian is "Santo Padre Giovanni Paolo II" which is generally translated as "The Holy Father, John Paul II". Machine Translations are a hoot, but the best we can do when I do not understand Italian.

[MissB]

58. Is this their attempt at understanding science?

What, they thought if they threw in a couple of scientific-sounding words like "immunodeficiency" then they'd sound more intelligent.

What utter horseshit.

[partisan to truth]

59. No, it's a deficiciency in EDUCATION

gimme a fuckin break with this hypocratic morality shit. ARRRGH!

[northzax]

63. er, read the press release

that's one of the things that they are calling for:

8. Per una maggiore efficacia nella lotta contro l'HIV/AIDS desidero riproporre alcune linee di azione da me indicate nel mio discorso alla XXVI Sessione Speciale dell'Assemblea Generale sull'HIV/AIDS dell'ONU (New York 2001):

- appoggiare i piani globali mondiali per combattere l'HIV/AIDS;
- incrementare l'educazione scolare e la catechesi ai valori della vita e del sesso;
- eliminare tutte le forme di discriminazione nei confronti dei malati di HIV/AIDS;
- informare adeguatamente su questa pandemia;
- invitare i Governi a creare delle condizioni adeguate per combattere questo flagello;
- favorire una maggiore partecipazione della società civile nella lotta all'AIDS;
- chiedere ai paesi industrializzati che, evitando ogni forma di colonialismo, aiutino, in questa campagna contro l'AIDS, i paesi che ne hanno bisogno;
- diminuire al massimo il prezzo dei medicinali antiretrovirali necessari per curare i malati di HIV/AIDS;
- intensificare le campagne di informazione per evitare la trasmissione materno-infantile del virus;
- offrire una maggiore attenzione alla cura dei bambini sieropositivi e alla protezione degli orfani a causa dell'AIDS;
- rivolgere una maggiore attenzione ai gruppi sociali più vulnerabili.

The 'moral deficiency' thing is being blown out of proportion by the media, read what they really said, not what alternet interpreted it as.

[partisan to truth]

74. unfortunately i can only read english and french...

i do understand education is one of mode of reform being called for by the vatican, i suppose that my anger is directed at those who attribute the AIDS pandemic almost ~entirely~ to moral deficiency (i.e. the media, and quoted statements in the article by the vatican and cardinal). If it's truly not their opinion that AIDS is a direct consequence of lacking morality, then my anger is best fitted primarily to the media.

[Tight_rope]

71. "called for education, abstinence"? WTF

Start of all...he needs to talk to Bush* and is followers who dont want sexy education taught in schools and don't really want anyone or organization informing people about sex. And as far as abtstinence...well that's just a joking joke. As long as humans are born with sexual organs well people will have sex.

[ElectroPrincess]

75. Just when I think that the Vatican can't become anymore

ignorant and self-righteous, they go and do something like this... Yes, I'm still a practicing Catholic but I must pray for the patience of Job to tolerate the patriarchal hierarchy if both the USA Bishops authoritarian delusions in addition to the old male crones in The Vatican.

Well, I will persevere ... someone must try to save "the good" aspects of the beautiful Catholic faith, i.e., that unspoiled by ungodly (ambitious men) interpretations.

[Bono71]

80. It is so difficult being Catholic these days. Ugh.

[cincinnati_liberal]

84. Recovering Catholic

I got shacked up in Cathlic school for the first time in the early 80's. It coincided with the archdiocese filtering clergy out of the educatinal system. It's my personal opinion that it had A LOT to do with the epidemic of sexual abuse. It is rather humorous to hear the Vatican address a moral issue based in science. The no longer have credibility in the former to criticize the latter. The church can't even recruit priests anymore. After this batch croaks they won't have any parishes left in the United States. They've already began to hike school tuition to help pay for lawsuits. Taxing the kids they vicitimize. I love religion. It's just like politics.

[alcuno]

86. Welcome to DU, cincinnati_liberal. I found the Holy Father's statement

to be pretty open and honest. To think that the Pope won't address the issue of morality and how it relates to AIDS is kind of funny.