US admits the war for ‘hearts and minds’ in Iraq is now lost

[cal04]

THE Pentagon has admitted that the war on terror and the invasion and occupation of Iraq have increased support for al-Qaeda, made ordinary Muslims hate the US and caused a global backlash against America because of the “self-serving hypocrisy” of George W Bush’s administration over the Middle East.The mea culpa is contained in a shockingly frank “strategic communications” report, written this autumn by the Defence Science Board for Pentagon supremo Donald Rumsfeld.

On “the war of ideas or the struggle for hearts and minds”, the report says, “American efforts have not only failed, they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended”. The way America has handled itself since September 11 has played straight into the hands of al-Qaeda, the report adds.

“American actions have elevated the authority of the jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims.” The result is that al-Qaeda has gone from being a marginal movement to having support across the entire Muslim world. America’s “image problem”, the report authors suggest, is “linked to perceptions of the US as arrogant, hypocritical and self-indulgent”.


The White House “has paid little attention” to the problems.The report calls for a huge boost in spending on propaganda efforts as war policies “will not succeed unless they are communicated to global domestic audiences in ways that are credible”. American rhetoric which equates the war on terror as a cold-war-style battle against “totalitarian evil” is also slapped down by the report. Muslims see what is happening as a “history-shaking movement of Islamic restoration … a renewal of the Muslim world …(which) has taken form through many variant movements, both moderate and militant, with many millions of adherents – of which radical fighters are only a small part”.


http://www.sundayherald.com/46389

[mike_c]

1. we. are. so. f*cked.

eom

[The Backlash Cometh]

104. I think it's time for Impeachment proceedings.

When official reports are claiming that the president's decisions are in themselves a national security problem, I think it's time to start exercising the powers provided to us in the constitution. Does impeachment include incompetence? If so, then we should get the support of the military and other rational organizations to begin impeachment proceedings.

[aikido15]

141. Impeachment

Sign me up! I want him OUT! Who has to initiate impeachment proceedings?

[The Backlash Cometh]

157. We need experts/academics involved in this matter. Especially

if Madsen's information is verified, I think even the Repubs will join us in the effort.

[American Tragedy]

171. It won't work

Articles of impeachment can be drafted at any time, but it is meaningless until they pass the House.

Then, 67 Senators must vote aye at the impeachment trial for the president to be expelled from office.

The Democrats would need overwhelming majorities in both Houses, because I can promise you that no Republican will vote in our favor. Anyone who claims otherwise is severely overestimating the intelligence and integrity of our adversaries across the aisle.

[Zorra]

135. PNAC agenda. n/t

[saigon68]

2. “BRING EM ON”



“BRING EM ON” shouted THE AWOL CHIMPANZEE

[LibertyorDeath]

11. Love your "Join The Army" sig pic

[PurityOfEssence]

88. Yep. Nothin' left now but the killin'.

Guess we'd best get on with it.

I'm sorry Sy, every time I see one of your posts on this subject I know it's just tearing you apart. Unlike the condemners of or apologists for soldier and soldiering, you know the reality.

Once again, it's just astonishing how a bunch of people who worship the past (conservatives) don't know a damn thing about history. Couple this with their arrogant superiority, and it's the same old hubris tic cocktail that's killed the weak and poor throughout human history.

By the way, have you noticed how conservatives look at Vietnam EXACTLY the way Nazis looked at World War I? We weren't defeated, we were betrayed by lefty politicians back home. It's a transparent hurt masculinity from which much human folly pours, and it scares the snot out of me. That's why the Swifties were so virulent, and that's why the file footage of Kerry's testimony stuck.

But I'm off the track. Chin up; you've been crystal-clear and absolutely accurate with your predictions and interpretations. I just hope you have the support system you need and deserve to get through the god-awful mess these thugs are fixin' to ramp up.

We're the bad guys now; there's no grey area about it, we've developed suckitude to a high art form, and we're due for some comeuppance.

[Judi Lynn]

105. Given the original banner's value, yours is the ONLY true one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. BRING THE TROOPS HOME

declare victory and bring them home...

[Guaranteed]

4. Gee. Who'da thought.

It's about time the stupid people among us started listening to the smarter people.

[Wordie]

29. Even Pat Buchanan is highly critical of the war in Iraq. He called it the

American West Bank today in an interview that he gave on C-Span Book tv. He also said, "Terrorism is the price you pay for empire." I never thought I'd see the day when I am agreeing so much with Pat Buchanan!

[VTHoosierPatriot]

115. It makes me do a double take, but

Pat Buchanan has been a hell of a lot more reasonable since the 2000 election (or maybe it's just in comparison to Dick and the Coke fiend). I feel like he cares more about the country than the party, and I respect that. *This is not an endorsement of Pat Buchanan's policy ideas but rather an endorsement of having a spine in a spineless world (i.e. politics).

[American Tragedy]

172. Bear in mind that Buchanan is not a Republican

And although he seems to agree with us at times, it is often for different reasons and with a vastly different overall rationale than ours.

Still, I appreciate his insight.

[Tight_rope]

150. It's scary isn't it....It's happening to me too!

[Patsy Stone]

5. And we only had to lose soldiers to figure that out.

Who knew it was so easy to see it wouldn't work to begin with.

[rodeodance]

17. The importance of the need to quickly establish a propaganda advantage

Wasn't there an an article a few days ago about this propaganda posted on DU? Also a fews days ago CNN complained of getting false information--which they broadcasted --related to this "propaganda".

...The Pentagon report also calls for the establishment of a national security adviser for strategic communications, and a massive boost in funding for the “information war” to boost US government TV and radio stations broadcasting in the Middle East.

The importance of the need to quickly establish a propaganda advantage is underscored by a document attached to the Pentagon report from Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy defence secretary, dated May.

It says: “Our military expeditions to Afghanistan and Iraq are unlikely to be the last such excursion in the global war on terrorism.”

[RedCon1]

31. It's hard to counter images of dead babies

We should have learned that lesson from Ho Chi Minh. Oh wait, I forgot, that was all the fault of liberal journalists like the hated Walter Kronkite who had the audacity to question our inevitable victory in Vietnam. Things were going exactly according to plan then just as they are now.
(Republican perception-adjusting goggles now removed)

[genieroze]

95. Did you know the Boosh admin is lying again??????

They have instructed their media whores to say that November is the second deadliest month in Iraq when is was number one. Bushco said there were 134 death in Iraq in November "BEEP" wrong there were 136. April 2004 is now number 2 with 135. The month of his false reSelection is number one in deaths.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[Tuttle]

109. They *really* expended a huge effort to get that word out

There was some discussion here about how they were pushing that before all the smoke cleared and all the dust settled.

I hate this White House!

Tut-tut

[MsMagnificent]

116. Did they ever stop?

" Did you know the Boosh admin is lying again??????"

[aikido15]

144. Oh, I knew it!

Here is a great article by Naomi Klein exposing the government cover up about the casualties.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1366278,00.html

[DarkSim]

155. I love her work

Have you read "No logo"?

[JusticeForAll]

84. Lose soldiers and so much more...

It's not like anyone needs to be reminded of the massive "opportunity cost" this war has had: The benefits never received from the options we did not choose.

Could greater good have conceivably arisen by spending these billions of dollars on health care reform, education, the productive lives of soldiers lost, citizens lost. The greatest cost is the emotional happiness of all involved: is anyone truly "happy" with this lemon that George bought us?

[Patsy Stone]

87. Greater good...

You sound like you're a Utilitarian... Me, too. Welcome to my moral philosphy!

[JusticeForAll]

154. Hi Patsy

You have your Inbox disabled - I wanted to send you a private message regarding your note.

Actually, until your message I was ignorant of the Utilitarian philosophy. From what I have read so far, it very well may match my belief system. While I try to strive for the belief that an ideal, or maximizing solution does exist somewhere, I know one certainly does not exist in the quagmire "we've" so far created.

Let's hope that there are exit solutions that minimize the probable further losses we are committed to facing.

Thanks for your comments, I need to look into this further.

[Patsy Stone]

162. What is this inbox you speak of?

Yes, there are many moral/ethical philosophies out there:
Kantian Deontology (beleive that god's word is the moral ideal)
Utilitarianism, and many others.

I find it helps to figure out where someone's coming from with regards to their beliefs, that way, you know how to argue your point.

Thanks, for you response...Glad I could help.

[Spiffarino]

92. They give not a damn about opportunity cost

...because it only costs ordinary people. BushCo and their fatcat friends are raking in their billions and are doing just fine, thanks.

The ironic part is how much the fanatical supporters of Bush stand to lose in all of this. Laborers, factory- and mill-workers will be hardest hit of all. They'll also be the ones who supply the young men and women to stop insurgents' bullets. But it's all OK, because God wants Bush in there, right?

Answer: not MY God.

[MsMagnificent]

117. Freeper's are just plain ignoring it

I could find no mention of this article there, so how would they know?
(I know why -- they're still working on their rhetoric & logic *cough* on how it's all Clinton's Fault! LMAO )

Dang, that ostrich commercial has them right down to a Tee

I'm stunned. Gotta read it again.
HOW did the Junior Fascists let this slip out?

[Spiffarino]

143. When in doubt, they must blame the Clenis. n/t

[azoth]

6. Oh yes please let's spend more money on propaganda instead of

doing the right thing and stopping the madness.

THAT makes sense. Sure it does.

[hatrack]

93. Glad someone else noticed the giant steaming contradiction

If we accept as true that "Muslims do not hate us for our freedoms, they hate us for our policies", wouldn't it follow logically that they care a great deal about what we do, and don't give a fart in a hurricane about what we say?

Yeah, that's what we need, not a change in policy, but bigger, better and shinier PR. Maybe we can have Paris Hilton and Brad Pitt appear in our Arabic PSAs. :puke:

[Dem2theMax]

130. Thank you a million times over for saying that.

When I hit that part of the article, my jaw dropped.

Sure, just lie to them some more and spend more money doing it!
What a great idea. I'm sure it will fix EVERYTHING and the world will love us again. :puke:

I'm shocked that the Pentagon actually wrote what we've been saying here for ages. Reading it made me feel like Dems have been vindicated in all that we've been trying to tell our repuke friends and relatives.

Gee, wonder why this report didn't get out BEFORE the election?

[ngant17]

137. Propaganda and psy-ops

Maybe we should be using the word "psy-ops".

One of those warning signs we need to look for, it could be in Bush's actions on the domestic front, an appeasement if you will of the American workers who need to be psychologically prepared or conditioned to accept (or perhaps to ignore) another foreign war as long as his/her immediate economic needs can be satisfied.

Bush might try to do something to pump up our national prestige if and when the war begins to turn against him, like we saw in the Apollo programme which really began under Johnson at the same time that he(Johnson) initiated the war in Vietnam in 1964. I am not saying that the Apollo moon missions were purposely invented to divert our attention from Vietnam, that is absurd, I only suggest that the Apollo Programme was exploited at the time for maximum political effect to the advantage of the imperialist regime of Washington.

Because Iraq is starting to become a protracted war, Bush will have to tailer his domestic "psychological operations" appropriately. This is what we need to be prepared for.

Think about it. Bush has already lost the equivalent of an entire army division (1000 troops) in Iraq, and those will have to be replaced with additional GIs just to maintain the existing level of combat readiness. In a word, he's bogged down there, and the Iraqi desert is nothing but a morass of quicksand that will swallow more US tanks, humvees, and soldiers as time progresses. Thus the need for more intensive psy-ops here in the US.

[iconoclastic cat]

7. Hey, what should we do? I know! Better propaganda!

Idiots.

[sushi]

60. Yes, how crazy is that

The best thing they could do is pull out of all Islamic countries where they're not wanted.

[saigon68]

8. WE TOLD THEM THIS 20 MONTHS AGO

WHEN THEY STARTED ON WHAT WE CALLED --- THE 9TH CRUSADE.

[madrchsod]

10. he had to start this war to show up his dad...

see dad i`ve got a bigger dick than you and i`m not afraid of using it...

[saigon68]

14. THEN THERE'S THE " he tried to kill my dad" EXCUSE

That was a good one.

[truth2power]

74. Yep! It's a dick-waving contest, among other things.

They should line up these guys and get out a ruler (one that measures in centimeters, preferably) and decide who's got the biggest dick, declare him the winner and then everyone can go home. Shesh!! :eyes:

[NEOBuckeye]

96. George Carlin said it best

"I also look at war itself a little differently from most. I see it largely as an exercise in dick-waving. That's really all it is: alot of men standing around in a field waving their dicks at one another. Men, insecure about the size of their penises, choose to kill one another."

[ExclamationPoint]

82. Like a crusade

This war was a crusade and fight for oil. The battle of troy had better reasons than we did. We fought it because, In the words of Rhett "Men Love War"

[TahitiNut]

9. If the taxpayers paid anything above printing costs for this 'report' ...

... we were screwed. How much is it worth to know water is wet? These shit-for-brains assholes wouldn't know the difference between an insight and a hemorrhoid.

[Just Me]

79. I actually believe they overestimated an even worse scenario,...

,...that they were hoping for in order to fully and quickly execute PNAC. I believe they were hoping for an out-n-out retaliation by, at least, a couple of the surrounding countries (e.g. Iran and Syria).

Now, they have to work at manufacturing consent via strategic propaganda, again. Their challenge in so doing will be far, far greater,...unless there is another major "terrorist attack" on American soil. That would be quite the fortunate event for them 'cause it would serve as the vehicle for their world war.

[uppityperson]

12. Does this mean we can quit and bring the troops home?

[Piperay]

100. I would think it means

we are stuck there forever. :-(

[Journeyman]

13. I told a bunch of war-supporters in May, 2003, that this war. . .

will prove one of the great disasters in the history of the United States. . . . I also told them we'd probably never find WMD in the Iraqi ruins, and that far from dealing al Qaeda a "death blow" it would prove a boon for radical Islamists elements the world over.

Many of us told everyone we knew the exact same thing.

It gives me no pleasure to say 'I told you so," so instead I try to get people to see what our options may be. . . options that are regretably limited, and growing narrower with each passing hour.

If only we weren't being governed by a cabal of morons.

[saigon68]

15. This WAR will go on for 4 More Years

Maybe for 10 or 20 more years.


Blood will flow in the streets of AMERIKA.


JUST WAIT AND WATCH--- BOOK MARK THIS THREAD.

[BeHereNow]

19. I agree completely with you.

All this report does is confirm their knowledge of the same.
Chickens always come home to roost and
every horse races back to the barn;
they know it and we know it.
We be screwed.
And how.
bhn

[RedCon1]

41. The longer it goes on

the more likely it becomes that other countries start playing our game. Hitler would not be appeased because he wanted world war (and grandpa Bush was bankrolling him). This administration is much the same. They'll keep forcing the game onto the world until not playing is no longer an option. Apparently, it doesn't matter that we're going to play the bad guys this time around. All men be cursed.

[leftchick]

62. Do you remember this poster?

It was very popular at anti-war rallies before the invasion. We were just 'a focus group' so what the fuck did we know!

[barb162]

85. oh what a great recruiting poster and so appropriate, I don't

think he has to recruit very hard at all with our insane invasion of Iraq. We just keep handing gifts to the cause of the bin Ladens

[MsMagnificent]

119. As long as we're prophesying

All Bush needs to go it hard is for them to figure out how to stage a "terrorist attack" that doesn't make the Bush administration look weak, like it was against us 'but out of our hands'?

Then they crank up the old Draft machine, nice & equal, for girls and boys alike!

Oops sorry, my bad,
they've got that machine all poised & ready for action.

[VivaKerry]

16. Written this last autumn. I guess there was no time to RELEASE it

till now.

Bastards.

[George_S]

55. Sept 23

SUCKER! Not you, the 51%. (Probably actually 48%, but who's counting votes?)

[Liberty Belle]

18. Last line is the scariest--Wolfowitz quote says...

our military excursions to Iraq and Afghanistan are unlikely to be our last.

"Excursions"--as if these were pleasure cruises instead of wars.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. For wolfowitz they area

and no pun, he is MAKING a killing too.

[Disturbed]

24. Democracy

Iraq like Afghanistan will be termed a success right after their bogus elections. Then our Military will be dfenders of the new Iraq Democracy and will stay for another 100 years to protect "Freedom" there.

This will be another colony of the U.S.A. with the Multi-corps raking in billions.

Here is the secret setup.

The Hand-Over That Wasn't: Illegal Orders give the US a Lock on Iraq's Economy
by Antonia Juhasz

Officially, the U.S. occupation of Iraq ended on June 28, 2004. But in reality, the United States is still in charge: Not only do 138,000 troops remain to control the streets, but the "100 Orders" of L. Paul Bremer III remain to control the economy.

These little noticed orders enacted by Bremer, the now-departed head of the now-defunct Coalition Provisional Authority, go to the heart of Bush administration plans in Iraq. They lock in sweeping advantages to American firms, ensuring long-term U.S. economic advantage while guaranteeing few, if any, benefits to the Iraqi people.

The Bremer orders control every aspect of Iraqi life - from the use of car horns to the privatization of state-owned enterprises. Order No. 39 alone does no less than "transition from a … centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat.

Although many thought that the "end" of the occupation would also mean the end of the orders, on his last day in Iraq Bremer simply transferred authority for the orders to Prime Minister Iyad Allawi - a 30-year exile with close ties to the CIA and British intelligence.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0805-07.htm

[LizW]

72. disturbing article

This is the true setup, you are right.

This whole thing wasn't a mistake or a screwup. It was a neocon plan, and other than the bad publicity that is coming out in the foreign press, it's going as planned.

This is an oil war. It is an economic and political take-over of a sovereign country for its wealth of resources. EVERYTHING we have done there, or allowed to be done, was aimed at wiping out the Iraq that existed and replacing it with a colony controlled by the US military and run by US corporations.

How long have we known about the 14 military bases being built? How long have we known about the missing billions of oil money? How long ago was the stage set for random imprisonment and torture of Iraqi citizens?

Bushco and the neocons NEVER intended to win hearts and minds in Iraq. They intended to overrun a weaker country and steal its resources, and that is what they have done.

The hearts and minds crap was only aimed at the citizens of the United States. We were the ones they intended to bamboozle with the "spreading Democracy" song and dance.

[NEOBuckeye]

97. Wolfowitz should be tried for War Crimes

That neoconservative bastard is one of the prime architects of this bloody quagmire. How smug he must be in the relative safety of Washington. He ought to be parachuted into the streets of Fallujah and left there to suffer in the hell of his own creation.

[rodeodance]

22. Cnn gets caught in the propagnda-- PR Meets Psy-Ops in War on Terror

This is the story I was referring to in # 17

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/120204I.shtml

PR Meets Psy-Ops in War on Terror
By Mark Mazzetti
The Los Angeles Times

Wednesday 01 December 2004

The use of misleading information as a military tool sparks debate in the Pentagon. Critics say the practice puts credibility at stake.

Washington - On the evening of Oct. 14, a young Marine spokesman near Fallouja appeared on CNN and made a dramatic announcement.

"Troops crossed the line of departure," 1st Lt. Lyle Gilbert declared, using a common military expression signaling the start of a major campaign. "It's going to be a long night." CNN, which had been alerted to expect a major news development, reported that the long-awaited offensive to retake the Iraqi city of Fallouja had begun.

In fact, the Fallouja offensive would not kick off for another three weeks. Gilbert's carefully worded announcement was an elaborate psychological operation - or "psy-op" - intended to dupe insurgents in Fallouja and allow U.S. commanders to see how guerrillas would react if they believed U.S. troops were entering the city, according to several Pentagon officials.

In the hours after the initial report, CNN's Pentagon reporters were able to determine that the Fallouja operation had not, in fact, begun. ......

[Just Me]

80. I sure wish ALL Americans would snap out of the psy-ops campaign

that has been waged against them.

I suppose one of my greatest cathartic struggles over the last four years has been the neocons' willingness to utilize psy-ops against their own masses,...and the masses' vulnerability to it. Such a practice is antithetical to democracy.

[Cheswick2.0]

133. Yes that is the worst part

everything else I can deal with. This horrible fog that everyone is operating in, this clouded looking glass is driving me to a deep sense of grief.

[carnie_sf]

161. Well that's what they seem like

when you've never been on one.

[American Tragedy]

173. I'm sure this this is all just an academic exercise to that little bastard

Wolfowitz was the one who presented Iraq to the president as a viable target, after the war in Afghanistan had commenced. According to Woodward's transcripts, Wolfowitz stated that conquest of the sanction-torn and economically and militarily weak nation would serve as a more decisive victory for the administration.

[izzie]

21. I hate saying I was right on this subject.

When all those brains in DOD and gov. could not figure this out, how come I and we all knew? All you needed is to think what would happen in your own back yard and figure this out.I guess that is why the world thinks half of us are stupid to vote in this man and his crack-pots.

[V. Kid]

23. What a present for Iraq hey

Invade the country screw it up a bunch...

And then just leave.

This is what everyone was warning them about, the fact that it would only make things worse for the US in the middle east and that they would have to withdrawl later on. Yet of course they believed INC folks like Ahmed Chalibi who claimed the Americans would be welcomed as liberators.

Now if the US withdrawls without fixing the country it will only win bin Laden more converts in the area. Oh well can't point out inconvenient statements like that I guess.

[Bridget Burke]

73. There's no indication we're going to withdraw.

And there's no indication we're trying to "fix" Iraq, either.

However, the continued occupation will just lead to more terror.

[V. Kid]

128. =screwed

Yeah that's the thing either way so unless the Administration actually fixes things *fat chance* the only other reasonable choice is to withdrawal. But just leaving is still going to F things up -- ahh listening to reason really is a horrible thing to do (from there perspective anyways).

[Dr Fate]

25. We were just there to "Kick their ass & take their gas" anyway...

I think most republican voters will even privately admit that.

[rodeodance]

27. 2002 story--Rummy's propaganda mission has evolved to recent story

....In February, Mr. Rumsfeld had to disband the Pentagon's Office of Strategic Influence, ending a short-lived plan to provide news items, and possibly false ones, to foreign journalists to influence public sentiment abroad. Senior Pentagon officials say Mr. Rumsfeld is deeply frustrated that the United States government has no coherent plan for molding public opinion worldwide in favor of America in its global campaign against terrorism and militancy. .....
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/12.17B.penta.prop.htm




Pentagon Debates Propaganda Push in Allied Nations


By Thom Shanker and Eric Schmitt
New York Times

Monday, 16 December, 2002

WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 -- The Defense Department is considering issuing a secret directive to the American military to conduct covert operations aimed at influencing public opinion and policy makers in friendly and neutral countries, senior Pentagon and administration officials say.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has not yet decided on the proposal, which has ignited a fierce battle throughout the Bush administration over whether the military should carry out secret propaganda missions in friendly nations like Germany, where many of the Sept. 11 hijackers congregated, or Pakistan, still considered a haven for Al Qaeda's militants.

[sushi]

61. They want to mold public opinion worldwide

in favor of America in its global campaign against terrorism and militancy.....?

Do they really think people outside the US are as stupid as those who voted for their man?

[rodeodance]

69. well, they molded enough people in the US to swing the election to bush

not matter how much was revealed of rummny bush etc--their lies etc--bushCo managed to instill fear and he was a better CIC!!
The rest of the world is smarter (but not leaders such as Howard of AU or ?? Canada, Blair, etc)

[RedCon1]

26. Waging war against a people while simultaneously trying to win hearts

and minds is the acme of military folly. It's like smacking the hell out of someone and asking them to be your friend at the same time. The RepubliCONS are still keeping a positive attitude I'm sure. Undoubtedly they are dismissing the writer of that message as a liberal commie terrorist sympathizer attempting to undermine our obvious victory in Iraq. All is well in Iraq and the economy is booming too!

[Wordie]

30. Yep. "Bringing democracy to Iraq" by bombing it to pieces isn't a way that

any rational person would choose. No winning of hearts and minds that way.

45. It's a "slow holocaust"

Eventually, the land will be turned to glass with a few bloody beads and bones trapped in.

But the Halliburton oil drills will still be able to punch through this layer, no?

[RedCon1]

48. Why would they want to tap those wells?

Then the oil supply would go up and, consequently, according to the "law" of supply and demand, they wouldn't be able to charge as much for a gallon of gas.

50. Eventually they will tap oil, after they turn Iraq into a glass-encasement

"Cake and eat it too"--

Halliburton is already developing a special drill to cut through layers of glass, depleted uranium, bones, and blood.

[MsMagnificent]

121. Yea but they gotta build that Afghanistan pipeline first!

Why d'you think we went IN there, waging bloody war, first?

Surely you don't mean to "get" Bin Laden??!

Oh you sweet, naive, trusting souls! *Adorable!*


BTW, can we have some more of your kids?

[RedCon1]

46. Yeah, but anyday now, anyday that oil is going to start flowing

and we're gonna be living high on the Hog! Anyday now...Anyday...Ok, any MONTH now this is all gonna pan out...any month now...er...year I mean...any year we'll be rolling in cheap fuel that will justify this whole mess, just watch, you'll see...any year now. Oh there it was, did you see it? Gas dropped a nickle at the pump. Whew, yes, finally, paydirt! I told you so too, didn't I? You stupid commie terrorist sympathizing nay-saying liberals. I'm ranting, aren't I?

[nomatrix]

153. Stop. You had me at "we"

Hearts & Minds, I fell in love with U.
:loveya:

[CornFused]

53. Back in those days...

People said "fighting for freedom is like * for virginity." I hope pukes learned their lesson but I doubt that they have.

[TheFarseer]

28. I say we have the elections as scheduled

and then get the f*ck out

[phusion]

32. Found the full report

Link here:
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf

[rodeodance]

33. I got an error message from your link

[phusion]

34. Fixed. nm

[VolcanoJen]

38. Hi, phusion! Welcome to Democratic Underground!

:toast:

[phusion]

86. Danke

Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone!

:toast:

[rodeodance]

70. thanks for fixing the link

[cal04]

39. Thanks for the link. They have it here in an

article by Ray McGovern.

All Mosquitoes, No Swamp


What About the Elephants?
Then came a rude question from the audience: Is it not striking that even in an academic-type setting like this, elephants must remain invisible? Is it not ironic that the U.S. Defense Science Board, in an unclassified study on "Strategic Communication," completed on Sept. 23 but kept under wraps until after the Nov. 2 election, let the pachyderms out of the bag? Directly contradicting the president, a panel of the Defense Science Board gave voice to what virtually all in that ornate Senate Caucus Room knew, but were afraid to say. It named the elephants.

"Muslims do not 'hate our freedom,' but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf States.

"Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy...

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/mcgovern.php?articleid=4109

[teryang]

64. Straightforward talk from McGovern

American unqualified support for, and censorship concerning our problematic unqualified support of, Israel's inhuman treatment of the Palestinians is a major American foreign policy blunder.

The chimp is mesmered by Sharon.

[rodeodance]

71. "kept under wraps until after the Nov. 2 election" crapoooooo

[BeHereNow]

43. Have you read it?

The ramblings of madmen.
AND, yet another ploy to line the
corporate pockets.
They have already approved tons of money
for their global propaganda network.

Welcome to DU!
bhn

[lukasahero]

170. Damn I love this board!

Thanks! I was trying to find it myself (to no avail) did a quick search here on DU figuring someone here must have already done so and BINGO! here you are with my needed link. :hug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

35. This snip (below) sums up the entire administration!

"Americas “image problem”, the report authors suggest, is “linked to perceptions of the US as arrogant, hypocritical and self-indulgent”. The White House “has paid little attention” to the problems."

Arrogant. Yes they are.

Hypocritical. Yes again.

Self-indulgent. You betcha.

This is such a mess we are in.

[MsMagnificent]

122. I'll never, ever forget that poor Iraqi woman crying, saying

that we American's think more of our cats than we do of what Horror is going on over there, against fellow human beings.

My God -- Dear God, which shoes would we be in (or perhaps what grave would we be filling) if we weren't born in the US by accident of birth?

Roll call:

Cambodia
Vietnam
Rwanda
Sudan
Korea
Palestine
South Africa
Peru
Bolivia
ALL the states that comprise what once was Yugoslavia
Israel
Iraq

--those are only a FEW

[Lone_Star_Dem]

136. There's a lot of truth to that statement she made

So many here live in a safe bubble surrounded by only those things that they find warm and fuzzy. Some of those bubbles will begin bursting shortly.

What would it be like if we were the ones who were on the receiving end of all of this? That is a question every single person in America should be asking themselves.

[Fiendish Thingy]

36. Nominated for homepage

this story, and this report, should be on the front page of every US paper, but alas...

[George_S]

56. Seconded

[saigon68]

37. A BAG ON HEAD FOR FREEDOM COLLECTION

A BAG ON HEAD FOR FREEDOM COLLECTION

By Ralph Rumsfelt Fashion Wear
Created by Chief Designer Wolfman Wolfowitz
Produced by HALLIBURTON HOMEWEAR --A division of (ETR) Exorbitant Tax Ripoffs LLC

Below his Iraqi man is wearing the latest in Ralph Rumsfelt Fashion Wear.

It's from the "I'M WEARING A BAG ON MY HEAD FOR FREEDOM COLLECTION"

Said Wolfman Wolfowitz chief designer of the collection. "Our work is meant to inspire Co-Operation on the part of the wearer". He continued, "Sometimes a good swift ass kicking gets them in a proper frame of mind to wear and model our creations."

Next up US govt approved genital electric clips for 220 voltage to THE PENIS !!!!





This creation is produced and marketed by HALLIBURTON HOMEWEAR –A division of
(ETR) Exorbitant Tax Ripoffs LLC









SOMETIMES THE IRAQI “Refuses” altogether to Co-Operate. Then more harsh persuasion is
needed for the Fashion Model. Military working dogs without Muzzles are employed to bite the
Model in the SCROTUM and PENIS




HALLIBURTON HOMEWEAR has found that this step assures 92% compliance. For the
recalcitrant, Broom Handles vigorously shoved up the RECTUM usually up the rate, the final 8%


For 16 year old children General Boykin has found that ANAL RAPE filmed by Perky Princess
Lynndie England and her band of Pranksters of ABU GHRAIB loosens their tongues quickly


The Plane ride sponsored by Myers Airways (Your best friend in the Air)





Due to the popularity of our look its even catching on in Los Angeles

[Lone_Star_Dem]

42. This makes my heart weep.

With this being the reality and only a tiny fraction of what is going on. One can't help but wonder what this administration thought was going to be the 'press' of this war. They don't control the entire worlds media. The people who are living this hell on a daily basis know the score. You cannot commit atrocities against an entire country and not have to pay the piper.

[Solly Mack]

40. "winning hearts and minds " was BS to begin with

Flowery speech used and reused as talking points in an attempt to portray this mess as something it isn't ...."winning hearts and minds" and " bringing democracy to Iraq" only works on ignorant Americans willing to swallow any lie that preserves the illusion of their own freedom.

So now that they admit it doesn't work....something you can bet your sweet bippy they always knew...what's their next move? what's their next talking point? what's their next justification?

Rummy nor Bush allow those who work for them to breach the united front of the united message.....unless they have something else planned....unless they have a motive for allowing such an admission.

What is it they hope to gain by this report being public?

I see their wish list of more tools of propaganda...which means more money and more control. But what does that mean for us? for the Iraqis? for the rest of the world?

What are these monsters planning next?

Nothing is as it seems.

[Mokito]

110. So now that they admit it doesn't work....

something you can bet your sweet bippy they always knew...what's their next move? what's their next talking point? what's their next justification?

Could it be that they are slowly conditioning the public for some really harsh strikes on Iraq, that would otherwise be found totally immoral and disgusting (even by pro-war people)?

[Solly Mack]

126. That's what I was thinking as well

slowly conditioning the public for some really harsh strikes on Iraq

either that or lockdowns using extreme measures...in the name of national security, of course.

but we a definitely being "prepared"

[kineneb]

145. prepared for next country

Follow the bouncing ball to the next target...Iran. Anyone following the "uranium follies"? Having lived there, once upon a time, we will get our butts whipped if we go in to Iran. 25% of the population is under 25 (=cannon fodder). And if they didn't hate us before Iraq, they certainly do now.

44. IMPEACHMENT...or "TAKE GW OUT using any available measures"?

Surely this act of TREASON deserves the death penalty? He knows about that--so often done down in Texas.

Call this abomination what you will..."TREASON," "failed coup," or "attempt to divert attention away from corporate scandals" ?

All of these things are the most high crimes. It even makes you think twice when Saddam Hussein said "Bush the criminal."

Indeed.

[Disturbed]

47. If Amerika was a Democratic Nation...

The entire Fascist Cabal in power in Amerika would be on trial for the illegal invasion of another country and committing War Crimes.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

51. Kick

[moondust]

52. But didn't we already have a Madison Avenue propaganda campaign?

What happened to that?

[George_S]

54. written this autumn?

As in, you know, before Nov 2?

Such a snake.

[sushi]

57. Finally

What took them so long. We knew it long ago.

[Dangerman]

58. kick

[bluestateguy]

59. Where shall we serve the crow?

Crow, along with some egg on the face and some chickens come home to roost.

[FlyByNight]

63. It's not an "image problem". It's a POLICY problem!

Every stated pretext for the Halliburton War has been proven false and/or to be lies. One hundred thousand-plus Iraqis are dead and 1200+ US soliers are dead for no valid reason. Al-Qaeda and terrorist recruitment is booming, according to US intelligence services; we're more hated now more than before in Muslim world. There is rampant US corporate cronyism while displacing Iraqi involvement in the rebuilding of their own country. And on and on and on...

This is awful.

[Disturbed]

65. The title stated, "The US"

Since when is the Pentagon the U.S.?

Was there a coup that I am not aware of?

[SweetLeftFoot]

68. Coup

It would appear there has been.

[leftchick]

66. Why The Hell Is This Not In An AmeriKan NewsPaper?

I know, I know. I just had to vent...

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[bklyncowgirl]

67. How do you spell Iraq === VIETNAM nt

[leesa]

75. Their solution? MORE propaganda...we can fool em better next time

[CBHagman]

76. Please make sure your friends and relatives know about this.

One of the deadliest myths being put out by the administration and the GOP in particular is that the war in Iraq has somehow made us safer. Add to that the fairy tale that the establishment of democracy in Iraq is going to make the rest of the Middle East fall tidily into place, with democratic governments being established and peace breaking out, even if the administration really has made no efforts to speak of on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

All dangerous fairy tales, and based as much as anything on focus group twaddle. I noticed Republican members of Congress spouting the phrase "It's better to fight the terrorists in the streets of Baghdad than in New York or Washington." It turns out that pollster Frank Luntz came out with that after some focus group work.

Well, what nonsense. Timothy McVeigh didn't emerge from Iraq, and neither did the 19 hijackers on September 11th. We can still be attacked, sad to say, and I don't know of a single credible person who claims otherwise. Even Tom Friedman (TOM FRIEDMAN!!!) says as much.

[NNN0LHI]

77. Most people I know are in very deep denial over this

I don't expect too many of them to come around for many years. Ignorance is running rampant in America today.

Don

[yorkiemommie1]

106. when i send this to my husband

he will 'delete' it instantly and then run to hear his master's voice
on hateradio. happens all the time but i keep trying.

[NNN0LHI]

131. Gave up on my family. Their "truth" comes from Fox news

I find it best to just avoid them. Better for the nerves.

And off subject Yorkies are really nice. My sister in-law used to breed and show them. We have a pair of Keeshonds. A male and a female. I like their smiles. They treat my my cat real well too. They are all Democrats, so we all get along swimmingly.

Don

[Person_Of_Interest]

78. IMPEACH BUSH..............

WHY BUSH HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED FROM OFFICE BY SHAKLES IS BEYOND ME .... PRAY MY FELLOW FRIENDS THIS IS GOING TO GET MORE UGLY THAN IT ALREADY IS...:scared:

[Deja Q]

81. Whoops.

What's left to be said? The WH is filled with incompetents - either not rrealizing the possibility or thinking they have the military might, which is starting to look as if they don't.

[Flying Coyote]

83. Original document (PDF) and rich text versions here

Original report here (and of course shameless blog plug)

http://www.peterbergin.com/index.php?p=71

[JohnOneillsMemory]

129. Hey! Karpinski was used a scapegoat for Abu Ghraib. She was brushed aside.

Although your graphic looks cool, it is inaccurate.
I post this because I researched her story and hate to see a set-up scapegoat portrayed as one of the instigators of war crimes.

(Have you noticed how women are used as scapegoats to cover for men who are higher up? I think it's because women are more likely to be whistle blowers so they are being chilled.)

Prisoners were such a low priority to Sanchez and the Pentagon that they might as well already be dead, according to Karpinski. She was pissed and disgusted by their treatment and resigned to doing her best to deal with the scene dumped on her.

Check out her background; she was handed the prison system despite not being up to it and she figured out why-she was the fall guy.

I read a very long interview with her (sorry-can't find it) where she detailed how she had a horrible prison system dumped on her and was blown off when she asked for minimal resources for prisoners.

She told of prisoners housed outdoors in tents and dying in mortar attacks by insurgents while they rebuilt the prison. She had to improvise sand bag reinforcements to protect prisoners from the mortars since Sanchez wouldn't help out in any way.

There were no where near enough guards for many thousands of detainees.

She said she was kept out of the interrogation loop with some typical sexist brush-offs and then used as a media punching bag to cover for Gen'l Miller's Gitmo-ization of the Iraqi prisons.

I spent a long time reading it with a skeptical eye and was struck by the veracity of her details.

[Salluc]

168. Another Woman Bites the Dust

Remember IranGate? The only person who actually did jail time was a SECRETARY. All the guys who move the money or make the money or authorize the actions get the consulting gigs and the talk shows, and the one lone woman they can find in the crowd bites the dust.

[grumpy old fart]

160. Link straight to doc, without shameless blog plugs....

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf

[Spiffarino]

89. No mistake. That was the plan.

The few times I've been able to stomach a trip to FreeRepublic, I've been struck by a frightening reality. Most of the people who post there believe we are in a religious struggle that pits Christianity against Islam. They make no bones about their hatred for Muslims.

Here are my own observations about the War on Terrrr...

The administration is using the religious undertones to great advantage. It's playing to its christo-fascist base to garner support for what is essentially a war for control of the world's energy resources.

The most alarming thing isn't that BushCo underestimated Iraq's post-war needs and the potential problems in not meeting them. They simply didn't care. "Bring 'em on" was no mistake. It was geared toward gaining full control of the country and its vast oil reserves by creating a failed state.

The US has created a state of desparation in Iraq, and desperate people will fight. The Iraqis who fight the US occupation are labeled terrorists, giving the US government the right to kill, imprison, torture or otherwise marginalize them. When everyone's a criminal, you can do whatever you want to them. The horrors at Abu Ghraib were our first exposure to what the occupation of Iraq portends for any who get in the way.

Once Iraqi society falls apart, it becomes much easier to control militarily. All BushCo has to do is claim it's killing "terrorists" by razing whole cities - Fallujah was merely the first - and most Americans will find it acceptable. The Christo-fascists will consider it a sign that God is on our side, and the Cult of Bush will be further established among them.

[potone]

114. I'm beginning to think that you are right.

It is hard to believe that any administration could be this incompetent. They must want Iraq to fail. But this is a dangerous strategy--I don't think that after Vietnam Americans will put up with a long, drawn-out war with no success in sight, or, as is increasingly obvious, no success even possible. If Iraq remains in a state of chaos, they will not be able to get the oil industry up and running; there simply will be too much sabotage. Our coalition partners are bailing out, and American contractors are afraid to go there because of the kidnappings and beheadings. I think that we will be forced to embrace defeat, call it victory, and get the hell out. And the sooner the better, IMHO.

[Spiffarino]

139. The bigger problem is

...they really ARE that incompetent.

The war-lovers in Bush's cabinet are convinced that the US has the might to defeat all the enemies it has created. They have no sense or understanding of history and for some reason they think it's OK to ignore all the lessons it teaches. I feel strongly that - barring a nuclear strike on an arab country - our military is headed for a terrible defeat.

There are two historic lessons I think closely approximate what we face, the Roman and English Empires.

The Romans extended their boundaries because of their superior weaponry and training. When the locals learned how to make the same weapons (or better) and became familiar with Roman tactics, they were able to inflict serious harm on Rome. The empire, built on conquest, was unsustainable once it no longer had a military advantage.

England tried to manage southern and central Asia and found themselves unable to maintain a lasting presence. Once the occupied citizens decided they'd had enough, they rose up and made their countries ungovernable by the British. It took a while in India. However, the Afghans drove them out multiple times despite the British military and technological advantages because the Afghans were able to overcome and counter British advantages over time.

In each case it took many years for the occupied to drive out the occupiers because communication was slow. Today communication is instantaneous.

Look at the Iraqi insurgency now. It's easy to see how quickly the insurgents have devised ways to overcome US military superiority. Before the Electronic Age it would have taken many years to gain new skills. Thanks to things like cell phones, two-way radios and yes, the Internet, it takes very little time to learn what an enemy is doing and to develop countermeasures.

In the end, the US will be forced into choosing one of three options:

1. Nuke Iraq, Iran, or some other ME country we don't like. This will terrify and cow the other countries in the region into submission. Well, it will until they finish developing their own nuclear weapons and delivery systems. Then we're all screwed.

2. We are soundly defeated and are sent packing much like the British were from America in 1781.

3. We declare victory and leave (otherwise known as the Vietnam Option).

[demgrrrll]

138. I watched the Bush and the evangelicals docu on Sundance and you

are absolutely right. They will support him no matter how many people he kills and they think it is ok because the Muslims are not Christians. I thought there might be a tipping point but after watching that docu I don't think anything will sway them.

[Spiffarino]

142. The fundies

...see the Arabs as Untermenschen. I fear that they have become the new Nazis. I don't think I'm being overly dramatic, either.

Living in the South, I have ample opportunity to talk with fundamentalists. I have heard more than a few state that we should just "nuke 'em" rather than deal with them. They see this as an epic struggle for Christianity. The idea that real human beings will suffer and die holds no sway, so I can only conclude that they see Muslims as sub-human.

I am sad and disgusted. There may not be an ounce of human kindness in the lot of them when it comes to non-Xtians.

[kineneb]

147. Christians??

Well, that rather makes them un-christian by Jesus's definition. But the fundies were never taught to think for themselves. I begin to think the Nazi analogy is not too far off the mark.

I have been reading up on the Synoptic Gospels(using their own Book to refute their arguments!)and the actual words of Jesus. Says right there: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Matt. 5:9)

Seems like the fundies are the defination of "hypocrits" that J. warned of.

(I knew that under-grad class in History of Christian Thought would come in handy someday.)

[Spiffarino]

151. Me too. I'm glad I studied Bible in college.

After reading it a few times, I became much more cognizant of the outrageous hypocrisy issuing forth from the mouths and pens of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and countless other bonehead preachers all across our country.

Either they don't have a clue what the Bible really says (unlikely) or they just don't care to read the parts they disagree with (extremely likely).

[poppet]

165. unfortunately,

I hear stuff like this from my students all the time. I teach religion at a Catholic high school in the deep South, and we are doing a section on social justice now. It is heartbreaking to me to hear the students speak about this war as a Christian thing. Some have said that they thought it would be good to kill all muslims; some think the U.S. is doing justice by bringing Christianity to Iraq. I asked them how killing people has anything to do with justice or the good news. I can't believe they are so cold-hearted - it is so horrible. Fortunately, the principal of the high school is also very criitcal of the war and U.S. policy in Iraq, so she encourages me to speak the truth to the students (even though many of the students have a hard time hearing the truth).

[Spiffarino]

152. Jaysus. It may turn out that I'm more right than I want to be

Check out this thread. OMG.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2785620

[lastliberalintexas]

90. Oh, but not the war for their OIL

Like we ever cared about their hearts and minds anyway. :eyes:

[Rochambeau]

91. Finally! It took time ! After the elections of course !! n/t

[Endangered Specie]

94. A FULL MONTH after elections no less.

[Kablooie]

98. Why is this first released in a Scottish Newspaper?

Seems a pretty obscure place to be the first to learn of a Pentagon report.

[Mokito]

99. Oops... (nt)

[Piperay]

101. They own it

now and they can try but they aren't getting out of it being THEIR WAR.

[Sparkly]

102. Rummy wrote words like "self-serving hypocrisy?"

I'm surprised. Where is this report?

[d---mad2]

107. what if?

Recently released Pentagon report is in disagreement with
White House policies in Iraq.
Does anyone wonder about the timing of the release of this
report, since Bush has just recently issued a ringing
endorsement of Rummy's job performance?
Does Rove have some diabolical plan up his sleeve?
Is this a ploy to divert media attention away from the voter
fraud issue?
Me thinks there's a foul afoot! Hmmmmmmmmm

[cal04]

146. It was written by the defense science board task force

The mea culpa is contained in a shockingly frank “strategic communications” report, written this autumn by the Defense Science Board for Pentagon supremo Donald Rumsfeld.

In this article click on "Strategic Communication," it's a pdf file
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/mcgovern.php?articleid=4109

[huckleberry]

103. Brief mention in today's WP Ombudsman column...

at the very end of the article ....

By Michael Getler
Sunday, December 5, 2004; Page B06

snip

The story that didn't appear in The Post is about a 102-page report by a task force of the Defense Science Board, a federal advisory committee composed of academic, think tank and private-sector representatives who provide independent advice to the secretary of defense. The report had not been made public until after the New York Times wrote about it on Nov. 24, followed by the Associated Press and other news organizations.

In some ways, the report -- titled "Strategic Communications" -- is dry, bureaucratic fodder. But deep inside, it goes to the heart of both the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq, and it raises many crucial issues that don't get probed deeply enough by news organizations, in my opinion.

The report comes at an interesting time. President Bush, on many occasions when speaking of Osama bin Laden, his al Qaeda network and the "nature of the terrorist enemy," has said: "They hate us. And they hate freedom. And they hate people who embrace freedom." Last week, in a television interview, Thomas Kean, co-chairman of the Sept. 11 commission, said, "We know there's another attack coming. You and I can't say if it's next week or six months from now, but it's coming." In recent weeks, there have been new statements from bin Laden (on Oct. 29) and his top deputy and strategist, Ayman Zawahiri (on Nov. 29). Zawahiri was quoted as saying: "You must choose between two methods in dealing with Muslims. Cooperate with them based on mutual respect and interests or deal with them as if they are spoils of war. This is your problem, and you must choose. And you should know that we are a nation of patience, and we will continue fighting you until the last hour."

Now comes the Pentagon's advisory board with a sharply critical report that says U.S. efforts to separate "the vast majority of non-violent Muslims from the radical-militant Islamist-Jihadists . . . have not only failed . . . they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended."

a little more at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36067-2004Dec4.html

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

108. I guess those Pentagon officials are about to get their throats cut, huh?

You know what happens to whomever questions this adminstration. God help us. It took them this long to finally say what a lot of us have suspected for months, and what some of us predicted a long time ago.

[peterh]

111. Well, the Pentagon may admit it…..

And Brahimi may state the obvious ("It is a mess in Iraq.") But how bout the shrills….from the twit on down….those that the clueless 51% listen to…..I’ll pony up a donation for them to have an all expenses paid vacation in the Sunni Triangle….

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=6688376&content_dir=ua_congressorg

When will the leaders of "Castigation Radio and TV" suck it up and go to Iraq to see for themselves what liberation means to millions of Iraqi's? How about spending a week there without a military escort? You can visit museums,have a picnic by the river, or take a driving tour of the country.
A really good time for you to travel there may be the last week of January in time for the elections.
I am confident that when you return , you will finally get over the fact that the Republicans won the election (and the bashing of Democrats will finally stop) and you can talk about the great videos you all have taken of the local architecture.
Ask your local congressman about visas required and permits for broadcasting from the countryside.

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVarticle.asp?ID=19561&pid=1143

Speaking at an oil industry group's annual meeting, Bush called denial of progress in Iraq "deeply offensive and contemptible." "There is something ignorant," he said, "in the way they dismiss the overthrow of a brutal dictator and the sowing of seeds of basic human freedom in that troubled part of the world." Bush called the past year of Iraqi history a "miracle."

[fshrink]

112. It was *never* intended to be won.

A pure example of "re-framing" (i.e lie in plain english). The sole and only purpose was to de-stabilize, which, of course, you cannot state plainly. Even now.

[IceOwl]

113. Writing the obvious

Love doesn't come from the barrel of a gun.

Does anyone have a link to the source of this article? A really want to read this report.

[Barkley]

118. Its no wonder we've got the "Blowback Blues"

The Blowback Blues

Mr. Blowback, Mr. Blowback
You spent all our money on war
Tax cuts for the rich, none for the poor
And now you asking for billions more


You bombed 'em with shock ‘n awe
And then promised 'em elections and self-rule
Do you think that alla Arab folks
Are just Islamic fools
Mr. Blowback, no wonder
You got the blowback blues


When they tried to find the weapons
You said were in Iraq
All they found was an empty trailer
And that don’t 'cuse no attack
You dissed our closest allies
Who opposed invading Iraq
You said the UN was worthless
And now you wanna take it all back
Mr. Blowback, Mr. Blowback
That’s why you got the blowback blues


Mr Blowback, Mr. Blowback
If you think you got nothing to lose
Well we really do;
I’m gonna leave you with the
With the blowback blues
You the one that will have blues
Not me, just wait and see


Below is a poem/ song entitled "The Blowback Blues" I wrote updating
Nina Simone's (Langston Hughes') well-known poem/ song "The Backlash Blues" http://www.boscarol.com/nina/html/where/backlashblues.html"

[Guava Jelly]

120. What Idiot believed bombing and killing would bring that result

Hearts and minds..
Every Iraqi killed has a sister brother cousin uncle you know the average Iraqi Who now hate us..
Great Job Bush...

[Blue_Tires]

123. what a shame...they put up so much time, money, energy, and lives

propping up this charade...

the gloves will REALLY come off for the administration now...Bush will come out with more outrageous deadly policies, and the bush voters will not only sit there and take it, like the obedient dogs they are, they'll practically BEG for more!!

[VTHoosierPatriot]

124. Anyone Surprised?

I'm still waiting for Homeland Security to confirm that the world is flat.

[Darranar]

125. They've lost it for over a year now. Slaughtering people...

isn't a very good tactic towards gaining sincere popular support.

[pa28]

127. First it was WMD . . .

then it was to free a grateful people. Remind me again why we did this?

[Supersedeas]

132. self-serving hypocrisy sums up a chicken hawk's life

[Jack Rabbit]

134. This has been posted on the long thread on the FA forum

Please click here.

Who said the Left was wrong?

[aikido15]

140. Duh..

Ya think?

[Democrat Dragon]

148. The PNAC guys don't give a shit about Muslims

no matter how many people point out them about the bloodbath and dissent going on there.

They are already building PERMANENT military bases right? I once saw this scary article(couldn't finding anymore) about how Leo Strauss thought that Isreal's border should be restored to how it was in biblical times. Any of you who have heard about Leo Strauss, already have heard about his huge influence on Bush Administation.

[Tight_rope]

149. War never brings about flowers and warm hearts!

:argh:

[cal04]

156. What Muslims want from the United States and the West

Sidney Blumenthal
WHO wrote this — a pop sociologist, obscure blogger or anti-war playwright? "Muslims see Americans as strangely narcissistic — namely, that the war is all about us. As the Muslims see it, everything about the war is — for Americans — really no more than an extension of American domestic politics and its great game. This perception is heightened by election-year atmospherics, but nonetheless sustains their impression that when Americans talk to Muslims, they are talking to themselves.

Actually, this is the conclusion of the report of the defence science board taskforce on strategic communication — the product of a Pentagon advisory panel — delivered in September. Its 102 pages were not made public in the presidential campaign, but, barely noticed by the US Press, silenty slipped on to a Pentagon website on Thanksgiving eve.

The taskforce of military, diplomatic, academic and business experts, assigned to develop strategy for communications in the ‘global war on terrorism’, had unfettered access, denied to journalists, to the inner workings of the national security apparatus. There was no intent to contribute to public debate, much less political controversy; the report was for internal consumption only.

Almost three months ago, the board delivered its report to the White House. But, a source told me, it has received no word back. The report has been ignored by those to whom its recommendations are directed.




http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/opinion/2004/December/opinion_December10.xml§ion=opinion&col=

[gingergreen]

158. Was it ever for "hearts and minds"...

I always thought it was for oil and money.

I am new here but have been and avid browser since the election.

Great stuff, thank you.

[Spiffarino]

167. Welcome!

Glad you've stopped lurking and have started posting, gingergreen!

:hi: :toast: :hi:

[Soth]

159. Straight from the report:

"If we continue to concentrate primarily on states, we will fail."

Wow. I'm shocked. Really. Who 'da thunk?

This will never get reported, of course. We are succeeding in Iraq. We have always been succeeding in Iraq. You love Big Brother. 2+2=5

[Beetwasher]

163. What Do They Suggest? MORE PROPOGANDA!!!!!!!

"The White House “has paid little attention” to the problems.The report calls for a huge boost in spending on propaganda efforts as war policies “will not succeed unless they are communicated to global domestic audiences in ways that are credible”."

Fucking idiots.

[ckramer]

164. But Bush prefers "shock and awe"!

[Election Mess]

166. Where is the coverage of this report in the US media

What is the name of this report, what is it's date, and why have we not heard about it in the US media???

Is this not worthy of US news coverage?

I'm perplexed about the lack of coverage of any news that points to our continuing down the wrong path and making the situation worse.

[talk hard]

169. no shit

Sherlock